Workholding when using a plow plane

[Staffan Hamala]

I'm planning on redesigning my workbench, and one of the things I'll have to consider is how to clamp small pieces when using a plow plane.

I've been making a few small boxes, where I make the groove for the bottom with a plow plane. I don't have an end vice, but have tried a few different approaches. I've tried using holddowns, but with small pieces (about two inches wide), the holddown gets in the way of the plane.

Another thing I've tried is clamping the pieces using a wonder-dog. This is the best method so far, but due to the round holes in my bench, and the need to have the piece sticking outside of the bench top, the dogs have a tendency to twist, so the piece works loose after a while. Very annoying.

My latest idea is a sticking board. I've seen that used for moulding planes, but I think it should work with the plow plane as well. My only worry is that the screws will mark the dovetails. (Until now, I've cut the dovetails before planing the groove. Next time I will try making the groove first.)

Any other suggestions?

[Russell Sansom]

I use the equivalent of a sticking board specific to the pieces I'm grooving. The lower ledge of one of my shooting boards usually works. Otherwise, I just make a quick jig with length of board (pine, ply, hardwood ) offset and screwed atop another. The lower offset needs to be just a little narrower than the width of the work piece so it's out of the way of the plane.
If the upper board is the same thickness as the work piece or a hair less, then the plane's rods won't hit it. The projecting lower board holds the work, the upper board provides a stop to prevent sideways motion. A dowel / pin / nail / screw near the far end keeps the work piece from sliding forward during planing. If necessary, a couple clamps or hold-downs can force the work piece down against the lower ledge to keep it from springing off or flopping around.

A second approach I will admit to having used is simple. Start with a single board which contains the two drawer sides. Theoretically, you can clamp this much wider piece somehow along the "other" side. Plow the grooves, then rip the wide board apart down the middle to yield the two sides. Of course this requires wide boards to begin with. Not the more likely choice with wood prices these days, but it happens.

[Jason Chestnut]

Since you already have holdfasts, one quick option is to use battens. You but the leading end of the workpiece against a planing stop, and set up a batten or two to prevent lateral movement. It's much like you might need to do for rough surfacing, except you might not even need to worry too much about the thickness. I guess that depends on how wide your workpiece is and how much space you need for your plow.

[Terry Beadle]

I use a triangle of battens. On my work bench are two rows of bench dogs made from red oak. I raise two of the bench dogs about even with the thickness of the stock being worked. Then on one end I raise two dogs in line with each other and place a plane-ing board in front of them and usually clamp it down with my hold down. Then I place the stock piece flat on the surface and work the edge for the grove. The plane-ing board is short of the grove work area and allows the plough to pass by. The edge of the work piece is parallel and barely proud of the bench top. If there are enough work pieces to merit it, I quickly make a bench dog with a notch in it about 1/2 inch from the tip. The notch is slightly thicker than the stock piece so that when you put the piece in the notch and give the dog a lite tap, it traps the work piece to the table top and keeps the work piece from any tipping.

Just another way.

[Larry Williams]

I'm planning on redesigning my workbench, and one of the things I'll have to consider is how to clamp small pieces when using a plow plane.....

This is just one of many things easily handled by a traditional tail vise. I wouldn't want a bench without one.

[Pam Niedermayer]

There's always those router pads to put between bench and piece, work pretty well.

Pam

[Jim Matthews]

I just installed a set of "Bench blades" from LV.

These are tremendously versatile, if not cheap.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=64685&cat=1,41637

[Steve Branam]

I've had success using a wonder dog effectively as a tail vise this way for wider stock, but for 2" wide stock I would definitely suggest a sticking board.


I just installed a set of "Bench blades" from LV.

These are tremendously versatile, if not cheap.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=64685&cat=1,41637

Those look cool! I had thought about doing some kind of cam-top thing to go in my dog holes when I was playing with wedges in my portable bench last fall, although I was trying to figure out how to get 3" of throw, not just 1/4".

[Frank Drew]

This is just one of many things easily handled by a traditional tail vise. I wouldn't want a bench without one.

I'm with Larry.

Lacking a tail or end vise with dog holes, if you're making multiples in the same size you could make a larger jig or fixture to hold the workpiece securely, the jig itself held down by any number of methods that don't interfere with your planing.

And Pam's suggestion might be the simplest while still very effective.

[Adam Cherubini]

This is just one of many things easily handled by a traditional tail vise. I wouldn't want a bench without one.

I don't mean to be stubborn. Seriously. I have 2 benches in my shop, one with and one without a tail vise. The issue with a tail vise and plow plane has much to do with the fence on the plow. For drawer bottom grooves, I use my drawer bottom plane. A match plane can work as well. The advantage to these planes is that the fence isn't an inch and a half or more deep.

So with a traditional plow, the fence is typically deeper than any box or drawer part, so I end up with the plow fence over hanging the bench (front). That means you want the dogs as close to the edge as possible. When I made my (kit) tail vise, I fought to get the dog holes as close to the edge as possible.

The next problem is that with fenced planes in general, you really need some pressure back against the fence. And if the tail vise isn't tight or the dogs are too smooth (mine are ebony), you can push the work sideways. Too much pressure and you damage the work piece.

In my opinion, the end vise creates as many problems as it soles. For thin work, you can bend it over the gap, etc etc.

Any more, I do what the guys in Williamsburg do. On the Nicholson bench, both ends are "open" and thin. I use a large hand screw and clamp the work to one end or the other. If I think I can use my planing stop, I'll bank the work against it, then clamp it down. If the piece is too small, I clamp to the far end. I'm also not afraid to set a small nail in my bench top to serve as a make shift planing stop. Usually this isn't necessary.

In my experience, holdfasts hold things down well, but I can usually slide things under them. Clamps work better for this. Oh, and a rougher or softwood bench top seems to stop things from sliding around better than some polished maple or beech bench. If you have a polished bench, consider putting one of those rubberized shelf or tool box drawer liners under your work to improve grip. I have a piece of rubberized mesh I got from IKEA (I know) as a mat for under carpet.

Adam

[Zach Dillinger]

One thing I've used to control sliding is whiting chalk. Simply put a little on the bench top, brush it around with a bench brush and it will help grip the piece. It doesn't have any negative effects on the work piece and I haven't noticed any dulling of my tools as a result of its use.

[Pam Niedermayer]

One thing I've used to control sliding is whiting chalk. Simply put a little on the bench top, brush it around with a bench brush and it will help grip the piece. It doesn't have any negative effects on the work piece and I haven't noticed any dulling of my tools as a result of its use.

Interesting. Do you suppose there are some resins in there?

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

I don't mean to be stubborn. Seriously. I have 2 benches in my shop, one with and one without a tail vise. The issue with a tail vise and plow plane has much to do with the fence on the plow. For drawer bottom grooves, I use my drawer bottom plane. A match plane can work as well. The advantage to these planes is that the fence isn't an inch and a half or more deep.

So with a traditional plow, the fence is typically deeper than any box or drawer part, so I end up with the plow fence over hanging the bench (front). That means you want the dogs as close to the edge as possible. When I made my (kit) tail vise, I fought to get the dog holes as close to the edge as possible.

The next problem is that with fenced planes in general, you really need some pressure back against the fence. And if the tail vise isn't tight or the dogs are too smooth (mine are ebony), you can push the work sideways. Too much pressure and you damage the work piece.

In my opinion, the end vise creates as many problems as it soles. For thin work, you can bend it over the gap, etc etc.

Any more, I do what the guys in Williamsburg do. On the Nicholson bench, both ends are "open" and thin. I use a large hand screw and clamp the work to one end or the other. If I think I can use my planing stop, I'll bank the work against it, then clamp it down. If the piece is too small, I clamp to the far end. I'm also not afraid to set a small nail in my bench top to serve as a make shift planing stop. Usually this isn't necessary.

In my experience, holdfasts hold things down well, but I can usually slide things under them. Clamps work better for this. Oh, and a rougher or softwood bench top seems to stop things from sliding around better than some polished maple or beech bench. If you have a polished bench, consider putting one of those rubberized shelf or tool box drawer liners under your work to improve grip. I have a piece of rubberized mesh I got from IKEA (I know) as a mat for under carpet.

Adam


Yeah, fences. I use a Record 043 or 044 for grooving, so I don't have the issues of fence size, but I agree with your approach to benches. Keep them simple and roughish.

Pam

[Zach Dillinger]

Interesting. Do you suppose there are some resins in there?

Pam

No resins, to my knowledge. Just pure powdered calcium carbonate.

[Pam Niedermayer]

No resins, to my knowledge. Just pure powdered calcium carbonate.

Ah, so maybe it's working with friction?

Pam

[Zach Dillinger]

Ah, so maybe it's working with friction?

Pam

That would be my guess.

[Paul Donovan]

Staffan, I faced exactly the same situation: wanting to plane grooves for box bottoms but having no tail vise. I messed about with F clamps and planing stops, until one day I just clamped my stock lengthwise in my face vise and started planing sideways. It was ridiculously easy. I use a LN 49 TNG plane, and hold it perpendicular to the floor. I hold the fence against the edge of the board with something like a jointer-plane grip. Take thin shavings, oil your sole, and off to the races. (Now if I could get all 8 mitered dovetails tight I'd be in business.) It's so easy to cut grooves this way, I've been contemplating going over to the Nicholson/Cherubini side of things (i.e., no tail vise needed). All the best.

[Frank Drew]

Take thin shavings, oil your sole, and off to the races.

Oil the sole of your plane? If that's what you mean, doesn't the oil get on your work? But mounting the piece vertically in a vise seems a reasonable approach.

Some of the suggested workarounds to not using a tail vise strike me as rather clunky, considering that using a tail vise is simplicity itself. And I can't at all agree that a tail vise is as much a problem as it's a solution; for example, if your bench dogs are made from ebony and prove too slippery to hold well, use a different wood for dogs, don't blame the tail vise.

[Paul Donovan]

Oil the sole of your plane? If that's what you mean, doesn't the oil get on your work?


Well, not a ton of oil. Just tiny bit of jojoba from a rag. And I take a few swipes on some scrapwood to remove any excess. No problems yet. To be honest, I just started lubricating the soles of my planes. I read about it a thousand times, but didn't think it would make much of a difference. It does. For me anyway.

[Frank Drew]

Interesting; thanks for the follow up, Paul.

[Russell Sansom]

Any time any kind of oil gets on my work, the wood has been stained. Granted, twice bitten, I have never experimented further. Still, what oil won't impregnate the wood? Paraffin has been the answer for me.