Marking gauge question

[Ken Marion]

I'm new to using a marking gauge and have a couple of questions about set up that I'm hoping somebody here can set me straight on. I've read in a couple of places that I should reshape the marking pin from its out of the box round tapered shape to a half round tapered shape. Reason being it gives a cleaner cut and wanders less. Sounds reasonable. Here are my questions:
1. Seems to me the half round side should be the side closer to the fence. Correct?
2. How does one reshape the pin? I tried with a file, and it didn't seem to work well. I stopped before I filed into the wood beam. It'd be easier to file it if I could remove it from the beam, but it doesn't look like it comes out easily. It's not held in be a wedge or anything simply elegant. If I do get it out, I'll need a a jig to hold it, which defeats the purpose of removing it in the first place.
3. Assuming I can reshape it, do I need to sharpen it like I'd sharpen a chisel or plane iron?

I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.

Ken Marion

[Alan Turner]

Ken,
A small file does this work. Be sure it is sharp. The only one I had trouble on was an old Disston, where the metal was too hard to file. I did it with a small diamond type file, on a plastic handle, that I picked up form a sale basket some time ago. As to the round side towads the fence, that is a yes. That way the guage is pulled into the edge of the wood, and it stays tight. But, on a moritse guage, where there are two pins, keep the rounds to the inside so that the outer part of the two lines/grooves are as clean as possible. AS to removing the pin, grip it hard with pliers and turn it out, like a screw, although it is not threaded. It is just a pressure fit, in my experience.

Some take the wood beam and cut or file out a groove for better visibility of the cut, right at the point where the pin is. Wood marking guages are not my favorite. I prefer a patternmakers guage, which is all metal, but does onjt have the round cutter, but rather a square one, which has 4 corners, each of which can be sharpened. I like a point better than a circle as it lets you come to a precise point, and then stop, so you do not have marks that are unwanted.
Alan

[Marc Hills]

I don't know whether it's correct or not Ken, but I file the flat on the side closest to the fence. Reading Alan's post about orienting the flats of the mortise gauge pins to face on the outside is making me rethink that.

And a needle file is how I do it, but I have an unfair advantage. I made my own marking gauge years ago and not knowing any better, I used a finish nail for the marking pin. I bet I could sharpen that thing with an emory board.

[Alan Turner]

Mark,
If you change that out for a piece of 01 carbon steel, shape it, and then self harden it per Dave Anderson's instructions using a magnet, a torch, and nut oil, you might be filing less. I do that stuff all the time now, and it only takes a minute, with almost no set-up time.
Alan

[Marc Hills]

Thanks Alan. I'll put it on my ever-lengthening to-do list. Let's see now. There's my daughter's bedroom, finishing the basement bulkhead entrance, the coping saw I've been meaning to build, more of my carpenter's tool cases as gifts, the globe stand I started last fall...Hey! Have you seen Lee Valley's traditional spokeshave kit? Man, that looks like a sweet winter project. Yeah, sweet.... Sorry. What were we talking about?

[Jerry Crawford]

I don't know whether it's correct or not Ken, but I file the flat on the side closest to the fence. Reading Alan's post about orienting the flats of the mortise gauge pins to face on the outside is making me rethink that.

yep - the flat is best facing away from the gage fence. The rational is the half radius of the pin will tend to wander away fromteh fence and pull the fence snug against the index edge.


And a needle file is how I do it, but I have an unfair advantage. I made my own marking gauge years ago and not knowing any better, I used a finish nail for the marking pin. I bet I could sharpen that thing with an emory board.

I would like to see your marking gages or some patterns. Last week I was looking at mine. The "new" one is a double knife thing about 25 years old so I'm due for another set. Need to make my own.

And, there is file called a "Diamond Deb" thaqt is a flexable steel file coated with diamond dust that will sharpen about anything.

Anyone have some nice marking gage ideas drop me a note. Thaks

[Pam Niedermayer]

My ebony/brass mortising gauge has filed pins with the flat facing inside; and if you think about it, that's the only way it would work properly because that's how I gauge the chisel width.

Pam

[Jerry Crawford]

My ebony/brass mortising gauge has filed pins with the flat facing inside; and if you think about it, that's the only way it would work properly because that's how I gauge the chisel width.

Pam

Pam, I guess if it works for you that's the important thing. But, IMHO, a marking gage isn't made to gauge the width of a chisel (although it's done) the blade on a gauge is made to slice a line across the grain of a piece of wood. With the flat inboard, the radius of the pin will bear against the wood fibers and be pushed away as the fibers push against the round pin, thereby pushing the fence of the gage away from the index surface (or, the edged of the board you are marking). If this roundness is inboard it tends to pull the gauge against the edge of the board.

[Marc Hills]

Pam, I guess if it works for you that's the important thing. But, IMHO, a marking gage isn't made to gauge the width of a chisel (although it's done) the blade on a gauge is made to slice a line across the grain of a piece of wood. With the flat inboard, the radius of the pin will bear against the wood fibers and be pushed away as the fibers push against the round pin, thereby pushing the fence of the gage away from the index surface (or, the edged of the board you are marking). If this roundness is inboard it tends to pull the gauge against the edge of the board.

Pam is talking about a mortising gauge, which is quite distinct from a marking gauge. If you tend to think of a mortising gauge as just a marking gauge with two pins/knives, then you're not appreciating what it really is and how it's used.

The beauty of the tool is that you set the pins, and hence the width of the mortise, not to some arbitrary dimension, but to the exact width of the chisel used to actually make the mortise. It's a very traditional notion of taking direct measurements without a tape or rule; one that modern woodworkers often lose sight of. We're so ingrained to quantify dimensions that we forget that practice is often unnecessary and frequently serves only to introduce needless opportunities for measuring error.

[Jerry Crawford]

Marc -you are absolutly correct. As it must be obvious to all, I missed that "mortising" part, much to my chagrin, and appologies all around. Thanks for making the point.