Don't know if it is a gloat, but it is old arn!

[Brian Effinger]

I scored a vintage DeWalt MBF radial arm saw on c-list today. One hundred bucks. It was left in the guy's basement from the previous home owner, and he was happy that it would be put to use.

Just about everything appears to be in working order. The carriage slid back and forth smoothly, with no play, but it does feel a little stiff. That could be because all I have to compare it to is my Dad's '80's Craftsman, and because it was sitting too long. The arm rotated freely, and the height adjustment, while also stiff, worked well. I was also able to rotate the motor horizontally easily, but the couldn't rotate it in the other direction because I couldn't pull the pin back to unlock it. I would think a little penetrating oil will free it.

There is a little rust, like on the pin mentioned, and some of the original paint is worn off, but cosmetically it seems to be in good shape. Just kind of dirty. I also have the original cabinet stand, which aside from a little rust, is solid as well. The saw appears to have the original table, but it is a little beat up. I'm not sure if I should keep it or make a new one. He did have the owner's manual, but couldn't find it at the moment (wife moved it), so he has my info, and said he'll mail it to me.

There are a few negatives, besides the frozen pin. The electrical cords are frayed in at least one place, and cracked in others, but being 54 years old, I can't expect any better. I will replace them. The other thing is there is no "on" switch. You just plug it in to turn it on. :o He mentioned that someone told him there should be some sort of toggle switch there, so I'll have to investigate and get something. Also, I think there should have been a drawer behind the door of the base cabinet. I downloaded some stuff from that old machine website, and it showed this drawer.

Hopefully the name plates come through in the photos, but if they aren't readable, this is an MBF saw with a "Rel" (release?) number of 244. It has a 3/4 hp motor and was manufactured in 1957. The seller said it was an 8" saw, but from everything I've seen, I think it is a 9", although, a 9" blade would just barely fit under the guard.

Over all, I think I got a good deal, but don't know if it is a gloat? I've got a little bit of work to do with it, but I don't think it will be too bad. I'm not going to go hog wild and disassemble everything, clean it and give it a new paint job. I'll just clean what needs to be cleaned, replace what needs replacing and adjust things if necessary so I can make some sawdust. Oh, and speaking of sawdust, I guess I'll have to get that book, and bone up a little on RAS's. I'm sure the creek and other sites will help also. In fact, I have to thank a creeker already. Neil Brooks has been a great help in the process already. I asked him a few questions, and he responded with a plethora (:D) of information. I would have been more unsure of myself looking at this saw, if it wasn't for Neil.

So what do all of you think? Any thoughts, tips, suggestions or "you suck"s :D will be appreciated.

[Gary Max]

You got very lucky ----the orginal bakelite knobs are still in place. I have the same saw except a couple years newer and still use it. Mine has the orginal deck on it still, personally I just cleaned mine up and use it.

[Myk Rian]

Nice catch.
It is a 9" saw, but try to find a blade for it. That's one reason people put an 8" on them.

[david brum]

That's a beauty. There seem to be a bunch of recent MBF owners (including me) these last few months. They are wonderful saws!

[Neil Brooks]

Brian-

It looks better than I thought. You done good, and ... lest you wonder ... yes, you DO suck !!

You're right: penetrating oil is gonna' be your friend.

I took purt' near everything apart, cleaned it all up with WD-40 and a wire brush, and then used "Super Lube" (use whatever you like :)) to lube most stuff, and used synthetic grease to lube threads before re-attaching.

I'll slowly *replace* rusted fasteners.

Make a new table. Make a Mr. Sawdust table. You'll be glad you did.

Cosmetically, yours looks to be in REALLY good shape -- much like mine was. For now, I'm not doing any cosmetic restoration. But ... your cabinet ... is tired and needs a facelift ;)

The original MBF switch was a key. If you don't need a key, a standard, 15 amp rated DPST (four tabs on the back) toggle switch is fine.

Any reasonable hardware store, or ... Grainger:

http://images.grainger.com/B329_35/images/products/450x450/Toggle-Switch-1XWR1_AS01.JPG

I also ordered cord from Grainger, but ... I think I mentioned ... you can cannibalize a 14/3 or 12/3 extension cord, and get both pieces. Some like the coiled cord from frame to motor, though. Grainger sells those, too:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_WVVYjLCNo2w/TVGxQaJ137I/AAAAAAAABsE/11G1WF_tyY4/s576/Parts.JPG

How's the motor sound ? How smoothly does the arbor turn, when you turn it, manually ?

And ... incidentally ... thanks for the kind words, but ... the folks on the woodworking sites have helped ME so much .... I'm just glad for the opportunity to pass a little info along.

CONGRATS on the buy ! No hernias, getting it off the truck. I've toted mine around a couple times, already. They ARE built to last !

[Brian Effinger]

Thanks for the comments guys. Myk, the blade on it now is actually a 7-1/4", but it has got to be20 years old. It looks like a plywood blade with steel teeth, so I don't think I'll be cutting anything with it. I've got to figure how to get it off the saw. It looks like there is some sort of thin wrench needed between the blade and motor, which I don't have. There are two thin slots in the arbor opposite from each other. I'm going to shoot the seller an email and ask him to take a look and see if he has it in his basement. With any luck, he'll have it.


I took purt' near everything apart, cleaned it all up with WD-40 and a wire brush, and then used "Super Lube" (use whatever you like :)) to lube most stuff, and used synthetic grease to lube threads before re-attaching.
I took the knob off of the stuck pin, and lightly put a pair of vise grips on the section of the pin behind the threads and gave it a light pull. It came right out - I just needed a little leverage. Now the motor rotates in both directions.


The original MBF switch was a key. If you don't need a key, a standard, 15 amp rated DPST (four tabs on the back) toggle switch is fine.

Any reasonable hardware store, or ... Grainger:

I also ordered cord from Grainger, but ... I think I mentioned ... you can cannibalize a 14/3 or 12/3 extension cord, and get both pieces. Some like the coiled cord from frame to motor, though. Grainger sells those, too
I don't mind a key. Anything is better than just unplugging it to turn it off. I might take a look around for something original, and if I can't find it a switch like you posted will work just fine.


How's the motor sound ? How smoothly does the arbor turn, when you turn it, manually ?
I forgot to mention that. The saw blade spins fine with the power off, and the saw starts right up with no problems. It does sound a little off though. The seller thought there may have been a little rust in the motor. If I can figure out how to post it, I'll record the sound of the motor, and ask everyone if it sounds OK.


And ... incidentally ... thanks for the kind words, but ... the folks on the woodworking sites have helped ME so much .... I'm just glad for the opportunity to pass a little info along.

CONGRATS on the buy ! No hernias, getting it off the truck. I've toted mine around a couple times, already. They ARE built to last !
No problem on the thanks - I just want to give credit where it is due. You really did help me out. And as for getting it down the stairs and into the basement - it wasn't too bad. I carried the base down myself because it couldn't have been more than 25 or 30 pounds (maybe more). I had my wife's nephew come over after he got out of work and help with the saw itself. He's a big kid, so we had no problem, but yeah, it was heavy.

Oh, and thanks for the link earlier. I'm going to go through it now.

[Greg Peterson]

I picked one up a couple of years ago for $100. Put 8" Freud negative hook blade on it and cuts like a charm. And yeah, they are heavy. One man can carry it, but not far.

[Neil Brooks]

You don't NEED the slim wrench for the arbor.

Just "bury" the blade in a piece of a 2x4, sitting on the table, and then turn the arbor NUT (it's left-hand threaded, so ... loosen it by turning CLOCKWISE) with a 1" wrench.

That's a closely guarded secret ... that they tell you in the manual :)

[Neil Brooks]

How they sound ... with new bearings installed:

www[dot]youtube[dot]com/watch?v=3QHhq_1y1is

:D

[Neil Brooks]

I picked one up a couple of years ago for $100. Put 8" Freud negative hook blade on it and cuts like a charm. And yeah, they are heavy. One man can carry it, but not far.

Hm.

On my computer, the pictures don't appear in your post [hint, hint :)]

Come on, Man. Bragging is VERY cool !!

[Chip Lindley]

Yes Brian, your $100 MBF is both a gloat AND Old Arn! Enjoy!

[Bill Leonard]

I purchased one at auction for $45.00 a year or so ago. Cleaned it and tuned it up according to Mr. Sawdust. My "go to saw" now. I wonder how I got along without it. I own three compound miter saws. They all sit on a self and get used only as "remote" saws when I am outside of close walking range to the shop. Clean it, tune it, and use it, you're going to love it. I also have a PM66 and a Delta table saw, but the old MBF gets the most use.

[Jim Davenport]

Read this thread, another new MBF RAS owner.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?162236-DeWalt-RAS-model-MBF&p=1664010

[Myk Rian]

I don't mind a key. Anything is better than just unplugging it to turn it off. I might take a look around for something original, and if I can't find it a switch like you posted will work just fine.
A key switch will cost you, and a toggle switch is much easier to turn on and off. Especially in a hurry.

[Neil Brooks]

A key switch will cost you, and a toggle switch is much easier to turn on and off. Especially in a hurry.

Couldn't agree more with that, Myk.

In FACT ... I'm replacing my toggle (since ... as we know ... it's in the Back 40, on the MBF) with one of these:

http://cdn2.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg45/h/h8240.jpg

Ordered it yesterday.

Going to cabinet mount it, on the door of the cabinet under my RAS.

I'm NOT squeamish, but don't need to reach "back there," unnecessarily ;)

[Jerome Hanby]

Mine looks similar to yours except mine had the Dewalt stand. I'm sure it wasn't factory, but mine had a light switch installed of the power.

[Jim Becker]

That's a sweet machine from the time before RAS got a bad name from poor quality and the resulting poor safety. Enjoy it!!

[Brian Effinger]

Thanks for the additional comments guys. It's been more than 24 hours, and I'm still excited about the saw. I've got some work to finish up this week, then Totally Turning this weekend in Saratoga Springs, then next week, I'll be all over this.


In FACT ... I'm replacing my toggle (since ... as we know ... it's in the Back 40, on the MBF) with one of these:

http://cdn2.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg45/h/h8240.jpg
Neil - I noticed the toggle in one of your photos, and it looks original. If you don't want it, I think I may know someone who'd take it and put it to good use. :rolleyes: ;) And your well documented restoration has inspired me to document mine here at SMC. As I said - I'm excited, and want to share with everyone. :)

[David Winer]

What a great find.

Some thoughts about your new saw:

I recently found an old RAS and have been advised to put new bearings in regardless of how smoothly it sounds and how long it takes to spin down (a very long time for my 14" blade). The reason given was that the grease in the really old bearings goes bad. The advice to replace the bearings did not come with instructions about how to go about it--must figure that out myself.

You will come to appreciate using a radial arm saw but you should (must) learn the techniques for tuning and for operating safely. Their seemingly bad reputation likely stems from lack of user skills and cheap quality saws.

If you rip, use the anti-kickback attachment which I see came with your saw. And if you can find one, or devise one, use a splitter too. My Delta came without a splitter, but I found one on e-Bay. My old 12" Craftsman came with a device for both anti-kickback and a splitter and I used it religiously (and correctly) for many years with no problems.

[Brian Effinger]

No plans to rip anything on it, David, but I guess you never know. For now the table saw, or bandsaw will work for that operation. If I were inclined to rip, I bet it would be easy to make up and attach a riving knife / splitter.

[Neil Brooks]

Neil - I noticed the toggle in one of your photos, and it looks original. If you don't want it, I think I may know someone who'd take it and put it to good use. :rolleyes: ;)

I think the ORIGINAL would have been a key-lock switch, but ...

Mine DID come with a working toggle switch.

I replaced it with a better, brand new toggle.

Meaning ... if you WANT the toggle that came WITH my RAS, then ... PM me your mailing address and it's yours :)

[Neil Brooks]

I recently found an old RAS and have been advised to put new bearings in regardless of how smoothly it sounds and how long it takes to spin down (a very long time for my 14" blade). The reason given was that the grease in the really old bearings goes bad. The advice to replace the bearings did not come with instructions about how to go about it--must figure that out myself.

Oh, no. Not at all.

Here ya' be !

http://wiki[dot]owwm.com/Default.aspx?Page=DeWaltMBFMotorBearings&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

http://wiki[dot]owwm.com/DeWaltMBFRollerheadBearings.ashx

http://wiki.owwm.com/(S(ifj0m5zkhyjwrebyv2ldoq45))/Print.aspx?Page=DeWaltMBFRollerheadBearings

http://owwm[dot]org/viewtopic.php?t=31085

http://owwm[dot]org/viewtopic.php?t=30990

http://wiki[dot]owwm.com/ReplacementBearingList.ashx#DeWalt_27

I got my replacement bearings from Wolfe Machinery. Others RAVE about Accurate Bearing.

I'm not sure it's QUITE as simple as ... you MUST replace 50+ year old sealed bearings, but ... to ME ... it was $100 well spent.

[Brian Effinger]

OK, Neil, here are the photos, and a video of the sound of silen... I mean the sound of my bearings.

188088188087
188089


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taRq7M8kV_U

I'll definitely need new bearings, but there may be a bigger issue. I noticed that after 10 seconds (after starting) the motor seems to speed up. This apparent speed increase is accompanied by some new screeching as well. I'm not sure how well this comes through in the video, but standing in front of the machine, I can see/hear it.

Should I be worried? Or should I get my new bearings and be happy with what I have?
Oh, and these questions aren't just for Neil. Anyone can answer them, tell me off :D, etc.

[Chris Mahmood]

http://ridgecarbidetool.com/saws-and-dados/miter-saw-blades/9-rs1000.html

[David Winer]

Neil, thanks for the information you collected and sent as URLs concerning bearing replacement. I appreciate that you did the research to list the sites. I had already found some of these sites, but the others were interesting and useful. A lot of you guys seem to take tasks such as bearing changes as routine matters, but to me it is a scary operation, especially as it involves tearing apart a perfect, working, machine. Anyway, I have copied a lot of the info and photos for use when I decide to tackle some bearings.

-- David Winer, Bethesda

[david brum]

I'll definitely need new bearings, but there may be a bigger issue. I noticed that after 10 seconds (after starting) the motor seems to speed up. This apparent speed increase is accompanied by some new screeching as well. I'm not sure how well this comes through in the video, but standing in front of the machine, I can see/hear it.

Should I be worried? Or should I get my new bearings and be happy with what I have?
Oh, and these questions aren't just for Neil. Anyone can answer them, tell me off , etc.

Brian, my MBF started to make a screeching sound as well. I needed to use it right away and didn't have bearings, so I took the motor apart and lubed the bearings with Triflow (I think). It eliminated the screech, but I still eventually replaced the bearings because old, dry bearings are what cause the blade to spin forever after shutting down. The bearing replacement is no big deal. Just leave the motor in the yoke while you're working on it. Otherwise you have to adjust everything again.j

Bearings are very affordable from Accurate Bearing, I think around $6 -8 each. They also have the roller head bearings.

[Brian Effinger]

I hope they're easy, David B. Like David W., I'm a little scared of the operation.
Do you happen to have part numbers from Accurate Bearing? The other thing I'm afraid of is getting the wrong part.

[david brum]

Here's what I ordered from Accurate: JAF 88500 to replace the Fafnir 200KLL2 on the cord side and a Japanese IKS 88504 to replace the New Departure C 88504 on the arbor side.

Replacement is pretty simple. There really isn't much going on inside the motor housing. They guys who overhaul these frequently say to heat the ends with a hair dryer for a few minutes in order to make the parts slide off easily. I'll PM you a writeup with photos (not mine).

[Brian Effinger]

Thanks David, I appreciate it. :)