Pros + Cons of low angle jack versus standard #5 jack

[Brian Atkinson]

Hi All,

My next purchase is likely to be a #5 jack plane and I am tempted to make it a low angle jack but since I am new to hand tools I'd like some feedback on whether my choice is flawed.

I am leaning towards a LA jack simply because it seems more versatile. With a standard 25 degree blade it can function as a jack plane and still do double duty as a shooting plane on end grain. With a second blade with a high angle it will be able to handle more figure wood.

Just using the LN and LV LA jacks as an example. They're much cheaper than the #5 and a second iron for the LA jack is much cheaper than a high angle frog on the #5 (in the case of LN and their HA frog option).

But what will I be missing out on by getting the LA instead of the standard #5? Is there anything the #5 can do that the LA jack can't? Is there anything that #5 excels at over the LA jack?

Thanks for any feedback!

[Johnny Kleso]

Pro: its a LA and HA plane, no tuning needed
Con its expensive considering a old Stanley No5 can be found for $60 in like new condition on ebay

What your missing is money in your pocket or another tool on your shelf...

For about 100 years LA planes where just for cleaning up butcher blocks and such thats why the old ones are so collectable..

[Matt Radtke]

Also, it is my understanding that a LAJ isn't so good as a roughing or fore plane. A 5, 6, or woodie is more appropriate for that task.

[Brian Atkinson]

What about the LAJ makes it not as good at roughing work?

Right now I am transitioning to more hand tool work. I am currently still running stock through a planer and a jointer and using handtools for joinery and smoothing. I'd like to start replacing the planer and jointer with hand planes so I have recently purchased a scrub plane and my next one will be a jack. So prepping a board with scrub -> jack -> smoother. Will the LA function well in this role?

[Matt Radtke]

I don't know own a LAJ, so I can't make a 100% comment. What I understand, though, is that due to the geometry of any bevel up plane, they just don't work well for hogging off material as well. And you need much more camber than is needed in a bevel down design for the same effective camber.

As far as scrub -> LAJ -> smoother, that might work, though I'm not a fan of using a scrub stock prep.

There seem to be two camps out there. The first, which appears to be backed up by historical evidence and the one I belong to, is that you go fore -> jointer -> smoother--but only for show surfaces. The other camp is scrub -> jack -> jointer -> smoother.

The disadvantage that I see and has been explained beautifully by Bob Rozaieski is that using the scrub tends to remove too much material and you end up doing too much work with subsequent steps to correct the HUGE troughs cut by the scrub. I do own one, but I really only use for REALLY aggressive hogging like thicknessing.

[Paul Ryan]

I know very little about hand planes, but have been in the process of collecting and using them more and more for about the past 2 years. If I am right traditionally #5's have quite a camber on their blades to help with heavy stock removal. Not as much as a scrub but still a good curve. It is tougher to sharpen this on the low angle blades, it can be done, but tougher keep the same geometry necessary. Last year I bought the LV low angle smoother, and yesterday the low angle jack. The advantage going this route is that both planes use the same blades, the smoother comes with the 38 degree the jack the 25 degree. Next year I will add the low angle jointer to my collection. I will continue to use my old type 19 stanley #5 as my true jack with a good radius sharpened on the blade. It is my rougher or my scrub plane, the low angle jack will be used as a short joiner, shooter, and in general my jack of all planes.

[Brian Atkinson]

Thanks for explaining.

When you say fore, are you referring to a #6 sized plane? Do you have it set up with camber in the blade as one would for a jack set up for roughing work?

[Andrew Gibson]

I don't know if anyone else said this, I am having a hard time reading right now...

I have and do use almost all my planes to shoot end grain. I have used everything from my 60-1/2 to my #7 for shooting. I do have a LAJ and love it, buy for jack type work I like my 5 and 6. the LAJ I think is better for shooting and as a large smoother. Just my opinion.

[Johnny Kleso]

Its really hard to say what pros and cons are..
What type work do you do???
Thats the main question..
Are you more a collector or user..
We all collect tools here to some degree :)
Some of us use them to make a living but I guess most of us are hobbiest..
Do you do mostly large or small work is a major question to ask when buying tools..

My opinion is to buy a set of old Stanleys No.3 to 8 have one low angle shooting plane that you can also use for high angled finishing like a Jack.. To use on small box shooting and panel smoothing..
Then start buying specialty planes if you need them..
Unless you have one old Stanley you use a lot and hate and must have a modern replacement..

You can also take the wooden plane route vs the old Stanley..

I have tons of planes and for years had plans on what to use them on but find due to injury I use them very little..
I see how easy it is to buy buy buy and hard it is to use use use..
Truth is you can get by with just a hand full of planes ...

Another note is I also like Keen Kutter planes as they where made buy the Stanley Tool Co. and are the higher quality Bedrock model..
They have a different frog seat than a Bailey plane and is what LN uses in its planes.. The older models have round sides not the flat tops like the LN plane..

NOTE:
If you buy Keen Kutters it must be a single K like K5 or K7 the newer models have two Kks like KK5 and made of a much lower quality than a Stanley Bailey plane.. You can buy them for as much as a Stanley Bailey..

[Don Dorn]

I don't know own a LAJ, so I can't make a 100% comment. What I understand, though, is that due to the geometry of any bevel up plane, they just don't work well for hogging off material as well. And you need much more camber than is needed in a bevel down design for the same effective camber.



Can only speak for myself, but that is my opinion as well. I have a LV BU Jack and a standard #5. When it comes to getting rid of material such as is diagnol removing of wood, I always use the standard #5. However, the BUJ excels at shooting, end grain in general and even serves as a large smoother that can give miniscule shavings.

[Robert Trotter]

I have the LV jack, smoothers and the jointer all low angle and I use them for all my work from prep to finish. I have no electric jointer or thicknesser or table saws etc. All basically hand work. You can take off a fare bit of wood with the LA jack and if you need to take a LOT off well it just takes time. I have been using very hard tropicals (ulin) and I have a few spare blades. I have low and high angle bevels and I am always swapping them out for different task from thicknessing to shooting and allowing for different kinds of wood. I find that the easy switching of the blades very very helpful. As it gives more planes than I physically have. I don't put any excess camber on my plane blades for removal of wood. I have straight and smoothing setups. I get by. But woodworking is a hobby for me. I also try not to let my blades get too dull before sharpening - sharpen often and less each time.

one thing you may want to consider with the BU planes is that you do have to watch the wear bevel on the back (underside) of the blade. But sharpen often and it is not a problem, or you can use the ruler trick ( I don't)

If you want some tools that you can use for a lot of different jobs and don't expect to get any more in the future then the LV BU planes a great.

[Matt Radtke]

When you say fore, are you referring to a #6 sized plane? Do you have it set up with camber in the blade as one would for a jack set up for roughing work?

Yes. My fore, #6, is my roughing plane with a lot of camber. I find the 5 (Jack) to be too short for helping to make a board flat-ish--which is the precision you should expect from your roughing plane. 14 vs 18 inches doesn't seem like much, but the proof is in the pudding. I get my (larger) boards flatter quicker with the 6 vs the 5.

I'm young and stupid enough that I don't mind the extra heft of the 6, but I can certainly see the benefit using a woodie for this role.

Also, your roughing/fore/jack plane is where you can really get away with a lower-quality or lower cost plane. The acceptable tolerances for sole flatness and everything else is way higher. I'd go so far as to say a LN or LV is a waste of money, especially since Leach rips on the 6 so much--they're CHEAP on ebay.

I doubt I'd ever buy a brand new roughing plane until I have more money than sense AND there's nothing else that I want.

[Brian Atkinson]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm rethinking the pros of a LA jack plane, it's not sounding like the multipurpose plane I had envisioned.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think the LA planes are quite versatile. I think what you are hearing is the cost of versatility is you start to loose the ability to be "the best" at major tasks. A plane designed to be the best at a single job will usually perform better at that task with average woods, if there is such a thing as average wood. The whole topic is a little hard to focus on out of specific contexts because there are so many variables. Then there are all the devices and blades available in the current market to extend the utility of individual planes which tends to fog up their basic design...

If you are interested in fore planes, I started a thread that covered the subject and several surrounding issues fairly thoroughly....
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?160120-Fore-Plane-for-coarse-work&highlight=

[Paul Ryan]

I'll add another .02 to the kiddy. As stated before I am not very experienced when it comes to planes. But to be honest I enjoy useing them as much as possible for stock prep and smoothing more than lectric machines. They are safer and a heck of alot quieter and they provide that excersice everyone is thinking we need. I bought the LA jack to use as a jack plane that in itself makes it super versitle. You can be a cheap #5 and #6 off ebay for a beater to hog off wood and other none glorious taskes (planing down rough door openings). The LA jack will full fill all the other needs a plane should. You can still use it to hog off wood but there is cheaper and easier method to that madness. I started with a type 19 #4, then bought my type 19 #5, then a type 13 #7 & #8, then a type 11 #3, and to finish off the rag tag of stanelys a bedrock #6 that I have had for about 6 months be havent gone through it yet. Once I learned how nice it was to smooth stock with a plane instead of a sander I bought my BU smoother. That plane is so nice to use and dial in compared to the stanelys I have been dreaming of the LA jack and LA jointer since I learned how to use them. I will keep the old stanleys but probably wont use them as much.