Catalpa/Walnut HF -re-do......

[Roger Chandler]

Okay,

I took the advice of John K. [thanks John!] and redid the lid and finial of the Catalpa/Walnut HF to make it look better. I replicated the form in this finial as well. The small lid is of Catalpa wood, and the finial is natural walnut finish. I think it gives the piece more symmetry and the color scheme is better.

I think it makes for an overall more pleasing piece. My first finial of this type, and I did not have much to work with as far a a scrap of walnut, but it looks very proportional on the piece from a direct look. The pics may not be quite as flattering......1872391872401872411872421872421872 43187244


Let me know if you think this version is better, and your overall impressions. In my opinion it would be better with a little larger lid to contrast the collar, but this is an afterthought, and not doable unless I turn some of the collar away and make a new lid as well..........not going there! Thanks!

[Roger Chandler]

Can one of the mods post a side by side of the two versions to make it easier to compare? I don't know how to do it!

[Jim Burr]

Ok...I'll toss my toes in the meat grinder...I like the other one better. Just my .29 worth

[Roger Chandler]

Ok...I'll toss my toes in the meat grinder...I like the other one better. Just my .29 worth

Jim,

what is it that you like better about the first finial? I find it interesting........?

[John Keeton]

Roger, so much of this is subjective and "in the eyes of the beholder." You will get differing opinions on which is better and why. You need to please your own needs here, and you like what you have done. That is most important.

On the other hand, you seem to be seeking the input and thoughts of others, so I will offer mine. Please take this as just that - my thoughts. They should not be taken as some indication of what "should" be done.

On the next one you do, I would make the collar lower in profile, and carried the shoulder of the form continuously to the recess for the lid. As it is, there is an abrupt transition from the form to the collar.

On the first lid/base/finial, the elements diminish in size in an ascending order. I think this flows well, though the base is too massive, and the "onion" has nothing to lift it from the mass, giving the whole component a heavy look and an appearance of being overall larger than it actually is. But, what it does do is create a nice curve beginning at the edge of the collar to the tip of the finial.

On the second one, while I like replication of the form in a finial, it has to be part of a balanced overall look. What you have done with this one is made an element that is larger than the base of the cove. While you took me to heart on the wood species, in this case it would be hard to make it work well. This one may have worked better with the base of the cove being the "lid" that sits in the collar, sweeping up to meet the replicated form. You would then have diminishing elements, flow and lift.

Again, just my input. Others may disagree, and be right!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=187244&d=1300496642&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=187244&d=1300496642) http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=187209&d=1300464149&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=187209&d=1300464149)

In the end, I like the first one better for the above reasons.

[Roger Chandler]

John.........I agree with you on this.........the fix was with limited wood available for it, and I would like to have made the collar a little narrower, and flatter, but with a curve up to the base of the finial. I think the lid of catalpa is too small, but I do not think that I am going to revisit this fix again, but at least the color scheme is less competing than with the ebonized finial.

I could have gone the route that Jim Burr suggested in making the collar ebonized as well, but since the collar was glued in, I thought I would get "bleed" into the surrounding catalpa, and that would have ruined the piece entirely. really had a problem getting the finial done........I do not have a small tool rest for this lathe, and could only get the rest so close as I had to support the finial itself with the tail stock, and that was prohibiting a lot of tool control, and this was getting pretty hairy there at the end.

I see what you mean about diminishing features that give lift to the top of the spire........I think this one is better, especially color wise, but has a ways to go in order to be what it should be.......Thanks John!

[John Keeton]

Roger, as you begin making your finials thinner, I think you will do better without tailstock support. It can cause more harm than good. I remove the tailstock once I get the blank rounded and some meat off the end of the blank.

[Jim Burr]

Jim,

what is it that you like better about the first finial? I find it interesting........?

Roger, keep in mind that I have one of these under my belt...so grain of salt. I liked the color combination better on the first...more contrast, therefore more visual interest. The teardrop style finial appeals to me because of the lift factor and my eye wasn't draw to extra details in the middle stopping the flow. That being said, sometimes in a long stem, those little touches break up a long visual "drive-through-Kansas" straight piece. And all, all that being said..no one said the finial has to be black..for some reason, just seems to be the status quo. When I get out of "jail" I'll post my attempt...the finial is black;):p:rolleyes:

[Brian McInturff]

I think if the collar was cut down to flow with the curve of the piece then it probably would've worked out. The base of the finial at that point would've been right in line, or so it appears.

[Baxter Smith]

Not to be lazy..... but..... ditto what John said about form and loosing the tail stock. I know very little about finials but found the Drozda DVD's to be very helpful in getting started on them.

[Jon Nuckles]

Roger, Just want to let you know that what the experts are telling you about not using the tailstock on finials also works for those less experienced (me, not you). I have not found any problems just chucking the piece and turning away.

[Michael James]

Roger, I like that piece. Not fond of the 3 color thing, but thats just me. I just found a Chris Stott book I bought I dont know how long ago and threw in the bookcase and am perusing that daily with my a.m. caffeine. It's a pictorial on turned boxes. His finials are fatter and shorter than most of what I see here. And he runs with the big dogs. Go figure...... I'm voting go for what thrills you, because when you nail it..... it will shine though big time! Just my .0002 cent:cool:
mj

[Richard Madden]

Roger,
The bottom line here is how you like the piece. Others opinions can sometimes be helpful, and taking notes of any suggestions you think might help improve a future piece is a good idea. For now, be proud of this one and chuck up another with your thoughts on making the next even better. Great effort!!

[Fred Belknap]

Roger I have been following along. I think either finial is great, I can see things I like in both. I think finials are like knobs and pulls and everyone likes a certain one. There are standards to kinda go by and a lot of good advise from here. I just finished a HF with finial and I will post it when the finish is finished. The HF is great and would be nice even without the finial.:)
Wish I could make pictures like that.

[Darren Jamieson]

Roger, I think that after looking at your two designs all that hits me right away is that you have very good tool control. Both finials look real well done and both finials would look good an any peice that they were put to. However you look at it you can't please everyone and you will always find someone on either side of the fence. The only rule of thumb that I try to follow on any thing I do is " keep it simple stupid" not calling you stupid but that is how it was said to me by nummerous people over the years. Although the fancy design does look really good and shows great tool control it does however take away from the beauty of the actual HF. Just my two cents and I hope that I haven't offended.:)

[Roger Chandler]

Just my two cents and I hope that I haven't offended.:)

Not at all! Thanks Darren!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger I have been following along. I think either finial is great, I can see things I like in both. I think finials are like knobs and pulls and everyone likes a certain one. There are standards to kinda go by and a lot of good advise from here. I just finished a HF with finial and I will post it when the finish is finished. The HF is great and would be nice even without the finial.:)
Wish I could make pictures like that.

Thanks for your perspective Fred!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I like that piece. Not fond of the 3 color thing, but thats just me. I just found a Chris Stott book I bought I dont know how long ago and threw in the bookcase and am perusing that daily with my a.m. caffeine. It's a pictorial on turned boxes. His finials are fatter and shorter than most of what I see here. And he runs with the big dogs. Go figure...... I'm voting go for what thrills you, because when you nail it..... it will shine though big time! Just my .0002 cent:cool:
mj

Thanks MJ!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, Just want to let you know that what the experts are telling you about not using the tailstock on finials also works for those less experienced (me, not you). I have not found any problems just chucking the piece and turning away.

Jon,

I had to use the tail stock on this particular piece...........I would have lost too much of it if I had chucked it up to be useful. I try to use what I have on hand, and that meant this short piece of walnut...........I do realize it can be done without a tailstock, but the piece of wood was just long enough using the between centers method. Thanks Jon!

Baxter..........now you know why as well.........thanks for participating!

[David E Keller]

Roger, I'm most impressed that you took the time to go back and redo something... I usually move on to something else rather than attempting to improve on what I've done. My approach has left me with a number of pieces that I'm not crazy about, and perhaps I can get motivated to return to them for improvements.

I prefer the first version for a lot of the reasons that have already been outlined. One additional thing about the revised version that seems funny is that the two pieces of walnut appear to be different colors. I think that's one of the reasons that black is so popular because it's easier to match black to black. I've got a piece that I've never posted here because I didn't like the color difference between the form and the pedestal base... One was cored from the other on the same piece of burl, but they're not the same color! While I generally love wood for all its variations, it can be frustrating for exactly the same reason.

Looking forward to your next.

[Roland Martin]

This turning addiction is just a constant learning adventure, with no end in sight:) Like others have said, there is enough I like about each finial that picking one over the other is not easy. The HF itself is so absolutely beautiful that the finial is secondary in the overall piece. It seems to me that with the experience gained on each turning we do, we apply the knowledge to the next ones, that what keeps our interest, IMO. Very nice work!

[Roger Chandler]

This turning addiction is just a constant learning adventure, with no end in sight:) Like others have said, there is enough I like about each finial that picking one over the other is not easy. The HF itself is so absolutely beautiful that the finial is secondary in the overall piece. It seems to me that with the experience gained on each turning we do, we apply the knowledge to the next ones, that what keeps our interest, IMO. Very nice work!

Roland...........I think you are right..........each piece does help us apply the knowledge gained from it and apply it in future works we do. Thanks for observations.

[Mark Hubl]

Late to the party on the two threads, but, Roger this is a good job. The HF is really nice, form is quite good. I can't add anything to what has already been said about finials. The more you do, the better you will get at them and the happier you will be with them. Turn and learn, and have fun.

[Roger Chandler]

Late to the party on the two threads, but, Roger this is a good job. The HF is really nice, form is quite good. I can't add anything to what has already been said about finials. The more you do, the better you will get at them and the happier you will be with them. Turn and learn, and have fun.

Thank you Mark for the observations. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Now that I have had a couple days or so to look back at the last finial, I have to say in person that it looks a lot better than in the picture.

I also have added a buffing of the piece and 3 or 4 coats of WOP, and it really "popped" the grain and also made the finial and the collar a much better match colorwise............I am actually pretty happy overall with it, even though if I were to have a total do over I would change the collar size to a more narrow ring, and have a larger catalpa lid with a cove lifting off it on the finial with a little more of a diminishing size of the finial details as it went upward towards the top.

In a perfect world that would be the starting plan, but I am finished with this one, and will move on to the next.

BTW..........thanks to all who complimented the piece, criticized the piece [constructive critics always help us grow!] and those who were encouraging......this aspiring turner wants you to know I value the encouragement of this turning community...........bless you all! :)