Workbench book rant...

[john brenton]

I have the workbench book by Lon Schleining, and I always wondered why everyone referred to the Landis book, but never to the Schleining book. Well, I just recently bought the Landis book and now I know why: ITS THE SAME BOOK just with an older Frank Klauz and an older Mike Dunbar.

I see no improvement in the Scheining book over the Landis, and Landis's book goes into far greater detail on the history of the benches and their uses. His section on the Ruobo is fantastic.

Funny that a lot of things in the FWW blogs from certain contributors sounds as if it's new information that they've researched in a dank underground Gothic library. "When I was thumbing through the pages of ancient history I found..." but if you open Landis's book it's stated right there....VERBATIM....especially when talking about the Ruobo. Verbatim.

I guess I have to make a point now. If you're making a bench get them both, because (a) workbenches are cool to look at, and (b) it's almost a "two heads better than one". There may be one perspective that ones shares that the other misses, but for the most part you'd find the Landis book is superior and the Schleining superfluous.

[Trey Palmer]

Thanks John, good info. I have the Landis book but not Schleining. I haven't bought either Schwarz book but I thumbed through his first one skimming at some length and have read most everything he's written online.

I also really love The Toolbox Book by Jim Tolpin.

[Jim Neeley]

Background: At the recommendation of a member here I recently added Schleining and Schwarz books to the Landis book I've had for several years. I'm reading the Schwarz book now but have only looked at the pictures in Schleining so far.

I really like the Landis book although Schwarz adds a great deal in his function-by-function discussion and his personal ranking of solutions. For example, he'll might take the topic of surface plaining, small boards, and discuss the advantages / disadvantages of using a holdfast, end vise w/dogs, twin-screw w/dogs, Veritas wonderdog and Veritas hold-down.

He walks through many such operations in this manner, helping you to think through which compromises are best for you. I can already see I'll be reading this book several times.

Tolpin's Toolbox book is a great inspiration... even though I'm nowhere near the skill level to implement what I see that I think I'd like to make.

Jim

[Trey Palmer]

Jim,

I see Landis's book as more of a survey. Schwarz's is more of an instructional book with specific recommendations. I did read through his lists of best methods for different tasks, which all made much sense to me. I've read so many of his blog posts that I felt like I had already absorbed much of the information in his book. Clearly the right thing to do is to buy his book, but so far I haven't overcome my selective cheapness.

Speaking of Tolpin's book, and your signature -- I bought a traditional dovetailed pine tool chest last year, built by someone else, with an unfitted and unfinished interior. I want to refinish the outside and fit out the interior as a sort of ongoing project, perhaps rebuilding tills and such as my skills progress. For now, my goal is to limit my woodworking hand tools to what I can fit in the chest.

The interior dimensions are about 30x15x20, counting the lid's interior height, so it's somewhat smaller than the ca. 1800 Seaton and Phyfe chests. But I don't anticipate having a large molding plane collection any time soon, so I think it's big enough to fit everything I really need if the interior is well-designed. With a little under 15" from front to back inside, it almost mandates the Tony Konovaloff style side to side tills, which make more sense to me anyway. It is just long enough to accommodate 26" handsaws, quite possibly by design.

The idea didn't appeal to me at first, mainly due to the bending over. But I can keep it raised, and the more I realize the limitations of my tiny space, the more sense it makes!

[john brenton]

What the Landis and Schlening books don't dedicate enough time to is to me what should be the most obvious. It's easy for me to say, having never written a book, but it would've made perfect sense to establish a comprehensive list of woodworking tasks, show how each task is performed on the bench, and grade each bench based on each of those tasks; pointing out where each one excels.

It sounds like Chris Shwartz's book does that. I'll have to check it out.

[Erik France]

I picked up the Landis book and Schwarz's 'Workbenches: From Design And Theory To Construction And Use' when I was designing my bench. I liked Schwarz's book better. To be honest, I really didn't read the Landis book entirely though. I liked Schwarz's take on the histories and uses of the workbench.

Schwarz also has a second bench book out called 'The Workbench Design Book' Link (http://www.shopwoodworking.com/product/the-workbench-design-book). I haven't seen it myself yet.

[John Sanford]

IIRC correctly, there are 5 workbench books out there.

Landis, Schleining, Schwarz, Schwarz and Sam Allen. I have all except for Schleining's. The Landis book is the most inspirational in the true sense. The photography is superb, and of the 4 I have, it's the one that would lurk on the coffee table. The two Schwarz books are the best, because they really focus on what you do with a bench, and how the different elements of the bench contribute to it's fulfilling it's role.

Sam Allen's book may be the most basic, but I think it's also worthwhile. In fact, I build my current bench from the first edition of the book. I have since modified it based on lessons learned and rethink inspired by The Schwarz.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

As an aside; I have Schwarz's second book, but not the first - is it worth having both?

[David Keller NC]

As an aside; I have Schwarz's second book, but not the first - is it worth having both?
Definitely - Schwarz's first book has all sorts of analysis on the advatages/disadvantages of different vises, features of workbenches, and workbench accesories. IMO, while the Taunton book (Landis) is a nice coffee table book, there's not a lot of useful info in it about workbench configuration and why one would choose some of those workbench designs.

[Jerome Hanby]

I bought all of the workbench books (well almost, evidently the Schwarz has more than one). They are definitely not all created equal, but if nothing else, just having the pictures form each one is a help.

I wish one of them had a real, down to the parts list and cutting diagrams, plan for the Nyquist tail vise...

[john brenton]

And something I just noticed is that the bench featured on the cover of landis's book is actually the bench I think I want to make...and that's the one that has no details. It's not like it's a total mystery, but it's just ironic.

[Russell Sansom]

I have to agree with David. I don't find much useful information in the Landis book. I found the Swartz #1 very helpful, inspired, and full of spirit. Though nobody mentions that it's the same info presented twice and is very thin.

[Frank Drew]

When I built my bench years ago, there wasn't a wealth of information available, anywhere, on different styles of benches; heck, there wasn't even an Internet to look for information!

But there was FineWoodWorking magazine, and I used their plans for the Tage Frid bench when I made my own, slightly modified (no tool trough, slightly thicker front board in front of the dog holes.) I'm sure other styles of benches are fine but I never found anything about mine that I didn't like.

My brother gave me a copy of the Schleining a couple of years ago, and I've enjoyed looking at the different benches. Bench porn. There's no way I'm going to build another bench, so Chris Schwartz' books wouldn't be of that much interest to me, perhaps, but I'd probably enjoy looking through Scott Landis' book. For the pictures; more bench porn. :D

[john brenton]

Exactly...bench porn. That's good. If it wasn't for those books I would have built my bench a year ago. But its all good. I've been limiting myself to just one side, but I have the space to do vise configurations on both sides of the bench. I might just do that.

[Tom Vanzant]

My wife and I visited the Hancock village several years ago. The wookbench on the cover of the Landis book is the bench at Hancock. I compared pictures that I took with the Landis cover picture and guess what? ... it was slightly different in the drawer area at the end nearest the end vise. Not knowing when the cover photo was taken, it could have been because of a repair and/or rebuild of the drawers. Anyone have an explanation?

[Chris Fournier]

Wow I can't undestand how Landis' book can be found lacking in any respect. There are after all scaled drawings of a number of benches that you could build from. You can see how Kirby choses to work over say Fortune or the Shakers. It may not be spoon fed to you but it's all there.

I agree with the OP's observations however, the Craft Press simply has too much capacity and the machine must regurgitate subject matter that has been hammered out for ages or topics on which the ink is barely dry in it's previous incarnation. Much like Hollywood...

As for the current crop of "gurus", they pale in comparison to the true Greats that came before them. Their true talent and craft has much more to do with self promotion and media savvy than woodworking.

[george wilson]

Tons of plagiarism go on constantly,don't they ?

[Chris Fournier]

Yup and we endorse/support it when we purchase the product.

[Jim Koepke]

My library only has the Landis book at this time.

In my looking through it, there seems to be a lot of information, but my curiosity was not satisfied.

I like to know the whys of the different designs.

Things like why some benches seem to have a longer section of the top hanging beyond the base than other benches?

Why do some benches use a sled foot and others a leg foot?

Many of these come down to the way one chooses to do the various tasks.

A leg vise a foot or two from the end of a bench is likely to work great for a person who saws longer pieces on saw benches.

A shoulder vise may be great for doing dovetails or mortise & tenon joinery. It might be limiting for other work.

When it comes to vises my thoughts are starting to look at having multiple vises. To get them all might take two benches. I like to be able to remove my vises to have a clean edge for sawing or other clamping. Others may do these things in a different way.

I like an apron all around the bench for hold fasts and clamping. They have to be beefy enough to hold clamps vertical and horizontal.

These may all be great for me, but for someone else, they may be an impediment.

Though my Workmate gave me a lot of support and is still in my shop, it seems too many pages were spent on this in the book.

jtk

[Matt Radtke]

I have the Landis book and have checked out Schwarz's first book from my library. Either is just fine for helping you build your first bench. The Landis book is, to me, more "bench porn" and Schwarz is more the why and how for various vises, appliances, etc.

The Schwarz book was impressive to me with its "For this task, this solution makes the most sense" section. It forced me to change parts of my bench design as I was throwing it together.

[David Keller NC]

When it comes to vises my thoughts are starting to look at having multiple vises. To get them all might take two benches. I like to be able to remove my vises to have a clean edge for sawing or other clamping. Others may do these things in a different way.
jtk

Hmm - well, you could go with the Harry Strasil design - 6 vises on one bench!

Also reading your posts tells me that you put a lot of thought into this hobby - for that reason, I'd highly, highly suggest at least checking the first Schwarz book out of the library. The chapter on bench vises and their advantages/disadvantages is well worth reading. I don't necessarily agree with everything Chris says about bench vises, particularly pattern-makers vises, but it did make me stop and think, and presented ideas that I'd have nver thought of.

[john brenton]

Another sucky thing about the Shelining book is that he spent no time on the coolest bench pictured. Some professional woodworker had made a massive beech bench with one side being a tradition "scandinavian" style, and the other side being a Ruobo.

Instead of going into detail on that one, he spends pages and pages on Maloofs bench...which just just a table. That's it....a table.


Hmm - well, you could go with the Harry Strasil design - 6 vises on one bench!

Also reading your posts tells me that you put a lot of thought into this hobby - for that reason, I'd highly, highly suggest at least checking the first Schwarz book out of the library. The chapter on bench vises and their advantages/disadvantages is well worth reading. I don't necessarily agree with everything Chris says about bench vises, particularly pattern-makers vises, but it did make me stop and think, and presented ideas that I'd have nver thought of.

[David Wong]

Not sure if this is the same bench as referenced in the Schleining book, but Patrick Edwards describes his bench which is two sided in the scandinavian and roubo style. Link here (http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/).

[Sean Hughto]

Once I built my bench, I kind of lost interest in workbench books. I built a Fortune/Nelson sort from the Landis book. Contrary to what some are saying here, I found the Landis book to have lots and lots of nitty gritty hardcore details about the actual building and benefits/downsides of different designs. My recollection is that the book gave very good detail on building the tail vise for my bench for example.

[Jim Neeley]

My library only has the Landis book at this time.

In my looking through it, there seems to be a lot of information, but my curiosity was not satisfied.

I like to know the whys of the different designs.

Things like why some benches seem to have a longer section of the top hanging beyond the base than other benches?

Why do some benches use a sled foot and others a leg foot?

Many of these come down to the way one chooses to do the various tasks.

A leg vise a foot or two from the end of a bench is likely to work great for a person who saws longer pieces on saw benches.

A shoulder vise may be great for doing dovetails or mortise & tenon joinery. It might be limiting for other work.



Jim,

I'm new and have probably over-read and over-analyzed things, but here is my take.

Schwarz's book, IMO, does an admirable job of addressing these issues. It is not written as an authoritive "This is why... I know all" tone but rather it approaches it from the various tasks one may desire to use the bench for (i.e. edge planing short stock, edge planing long stock, cutting dovetails) and offers Chris's 3-5 favorite features of a bench to accomplish the function, including the various vise types, leg positions, holdfasts, holddowns, bench dogs, wonderdogs and combinations thereof.


When it comes to vises my thoughts are starting to look at having multiple vises. To get them all might take two benches. I like to be able to remove my vises to have a clean edge for sawing or other clamping. Others may do these things in a different way.


I've held off in discussing this here because I'm new and thought it might come off poorly but I came to the same conclusion after reading Schwarz's book.

As some may know I'm in the midst of building my first bench (top glued and planed, PM vise installed, ready to glue on skirts). I've long had a LV-twinscrew for the end. After reading Chris's book (and while I've got the top upside down and under construction) I decided to mount a L-N chain vise on the opposite face.

This being my first bench, I'm unsure of what will work best for me. This may or may not prove to be a good combo. If not I'll do something different in some future second-generation benchtop.

Jim

[john brenton]

That's the one. Thanks David. That bench is awesome.

If I ever get around to it I will build a somewhat smaller version. It's perfect...

Dang, think he has enough tools? Geez.


Not sure if this is the same bench as referenced in the Schleining book, but Patrick Edwards describes his bench which is two sided in the scandinavian and roubo style. Link here (http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/).

[Gary Curtis]

I only wish Chris Schwartz's book had been published when I built my bench. I used a set of drawings that Garrett Wade sold for a bench design in the 1980's, with a few modifications gleaned from FWWing magazine articles. One of those was written by Lon S. But Chris S's strategy showed greater wisdom in linking design features and how each facilitates a particular WWing procedure.

Here is why that is especially important when it comes to benches. Many writers say repeatedly that the workbench is the most important tool in the shop. Bar none. It is so important because it is involved in so many work procedures. I was starting out in this hobby at the time, and I only wish I had known what procedures to learn and which I would prefer. Then my bench would accommodate my work much better. It doesn't and it gets aggravating.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Not sure if this is the same bench as referenced in the Schleining book, but Patrick Edwards describes his bench which is two sided in the scandinavian and roubo style. Link here (http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/).

Thanks, David, great bench; but I've also spent the last half hour watching Edwards on hide glue, wonderful to actually see that stuff.

Pam