Epoxy floor paint (water-based)?

[Phil Thien]

I've decided to tackle my basement (shop) floor. It was previously vinyl tile.

When I removed the tile I had tile adhesive stuck to the concrete.

I had the tile/adhesive tested. The test report said no asbestos.

So I'm grinding the glue off with a diamond wheel.

I'm getting to the point where I'm going to paint the areas where I've removed the adhesive. So I've been searching for paint to use. And I've come across water-based epoxy floor paints?

http://www.ugl.com/drylokMasonry/floorAndExteriorPaints/e1.php
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=17

Are these one-part "epoxy" products merely water-based products with chips of hardened epoxy that are ground-up and added? Kind of like water-based poly which (simplifying) is water-based product with tiny particles of polyurethane suspended in them?

Has anyone tried this stuff?

It would be great for my application because I'm going to have to do this in two-three phases, moving stuff around between each phase, and I wouldn't have to worry about mixing the right amount of a two-part product and having some go to waste, or not getting the ratio right because I tried mixing a partial batch.

Basically, if you have any input on one-part concrete floor paint (epoxy or anything else), I'm all ears (or eyes).

[Kirk Poore]

The Rustoleum you pointed to is a two-part product, but not in equal volumes. You have a gallon can that's mostly full, and a smaller container with about a pint of hardener (or whatever it is) that you pour in and mix up. I suppose if you wanted to you could set half or two thirds aside and mix in the correct portion of the hardener. My shop floor is roughly 550 sq ft, including the stub walls of the foundation, and I had a very small amount left over after using two cans. So if you've got over about 300 sq ft, you'd need two sets of it anyway, so you could just divide your shop in half, clear it, apply the etch, then paint after it's dry. Repeat a few days later on the other half.


It's held up pretty well. Application was easy (mostly with a roller), and it didn't smell very much. You have to leave it to harden up for a few days, IIRC. Oh, I threw the roll away after I was done with it. More trouble than it was worth to clean it. and I don't know that you even could.

Kirk

[Kurt Cady]

Phil,

Please don't waste your time with the 1-part stuff. It's crap. My parents had it a while back. What a mess!!! I have the two part stuff in mine, te two part stuff is in my parents now, and or laid two part stuff in 3-4 friends' garages. And my parents have outdoor stuff on the back patio in the sun. Not one problem.

http://homedepot.digby.com/shops/web/homedepot?cmd=item&itemId=100201460&vendorId=78

I linked to the industrial stuff. I've used both. It comes in two gallons that you mix together (equal parts) so you can do it in phases by mixing smaller batches. Just keep the stuff you're saving apart and it won't cure in the can. The only problem I see with doing smaller batches is more rollers and more buckets. No worries.

Also, the best way I found to spread the little color flakes is to toss small handfuls into the air and let them rain down. Much easier and better looking than trying to toss it like you would bird seed or something.

Let me know if you have any questions. Two part stuff. Rustoleum. You can't go wrong

[Phil Thien]

The Rustoleum you pointed to is a two-part product, but not in equal volumes. You have a gallon can that's mostly full, and a smaller container with about a pint of hardener (or whatever it is) that you pour in and mix up. I suppose if you wanted to you could set half or two thirds aside and mix in the correct portion of the hardener. My shop floor is roughly 550 sq ft, including the stub walls of the foundation, and I had a very small amount left over after using two cans. So if you've got over about 300 sq ft, you'd need two sets of it anyway, so you could just divide your shop in half, clear it, apply the etch, then paint after it's dry. Repeat a few days later on the other half.


It's held up pretty well. Application was easy (mostly with a roller), and it didn't smell very much. You have to leave it to harden up for a few days, IIRC. Oh, I threw the roll away after I was done with it. More trouble than it was worth to clean it. and I don't know that you even could.

Kirk

Actually, the stuff I linked is a one-part. You don't mix it, just paint it on.

Rustoleum seems to make three different types: (1) Two-part solvent-based. (2) Two-part water-based. (3) One-part water-based. The stuff I linked was #3. The stuff you may have used might have been #1, especially if it didn't clean with soap/water, or had a strong odor.

I'm not sure what the REAL difference is between #2 and #3 on Rustoleum product. They look vastly different when looking as the MSDS. In fact, the two-part water-based product's MSDS mentions no water but does mention petroleum distillates. The #3 MSDS looks more like paint with silica and quartz and "Micronized Polyethylene/Polytetrafluoroethylene Blend," which I think is simply ground-up epoxy.

I've decided to go with the one-part Rustoleum. I can get it mixed it in a color I want, and it doesn't have to be garage-tough. If it is good floor paint, it will be fine. I found two 5/5 star reviews of it at the Home Depot site. That is good enough for me. :)

[Phil Thien]

Phil,

Please don't waste your time with the 1-part stuff. It's crap.

Oh it will be fine. My limited research/understanding makes it seem like the one-part is just really good floor paint, not a true epoxy coating. But that's fine. I don't need a showroom quality floor. I wouldn't paint it at all if I didn't have to grind-off the glue, which leaves a very porous surface behind.

It is a basement floor, there won't be any hot tires or wet cars on it.

[Alan Schaffter]

Phil, I painted the Advantech subfloor in my second story shop with a good porch and deck paint. Advantech is similar to OSB but tougher and just a little smoother, so it took two coats. It is holding up just fine five years later. If you just want a floor that is brighter and easier to sweep, and won't be dragging heavy stuff around consider just using paint.

I would do a moisture test before investing time and money painting or epoxying the floor - duct tape a 1' square of poly sheeting to the floor for a few hours (day?) and see if you get any condensation under it. If you do, forget about painting the floor because it will come up.

Also, unless you put down anti-slip (fine sand) at the same time, your floor will be slippery, especially if there is any sawdust on it. My floor isn't slippery to the point where there is danger of slipping and falling down, but I use mats in front of machines where I apply horizontal force to the work (jointer, TS, etc.) so my feet don't slide sideways when I push.

First coat going down:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P2010147.JPG

Five years later:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P5080002.JPG

[Chip Lindley]

Phil, if you have not already ground all the glue off the floor, STOP now. Try using a propane torch to loosen the glue and scrape it up with a broad putty knife. Most vinyl tile adhesive is latex-based, or like contact cement. Torching makes lots less mess, and a smoother floor when you are finished. Clean up with mineral spirits. Ventilate well! (but, it cannot be any worse than clouds of cement dust)

[Phil Thien]

Phil, if you have not already ground all the glue off the floor, STOP now. Try using a propane torch to loosen the glue and scrape it up with a broad putty knife. Most vinyl tile adhesive is latex-based, or like contact cement. Torching makes lots less mess, and a smoother floor when you are finished. Clean up with mineral spirits. Ventilate well! (but, it cannot be any worse than clouds of cement dust)

Been there, done that, it takes FOREVER.

Also, the surface left behind isn't porous and wouldn't be paintable. Which would be fine if the resulting surface was going to be a smooth, troweled concrete. But when the tiles were removed, some brought a little of the concrete with them.

So I'd have to grind anyhow.

It really isn't that messy. The vac does a great job getting the stuff. Although the stone powder is so fine that it does permeate the bags (and I'm using drywall bags). It just requires extra cleaning of the shop vac.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, I painted the Advantech subfloor in my second story shop with a good porch and deck paint.

It sure looks nice.


Advantech is similar to OSB but tougher and just a little smoother, so it took two coats. It is holding up just fine five years later. If you just want a floor that is brighter and easier to sweep, and won't be dragging heavy stuff around consider just using paint.

I would do a moisture test before investing time and money painting or epoxying the floor - duct tape a 1' square of poly sheeting to the floor for a few hours (day?) and see if you get any condensation under it. If you do, forget about painting the floor because it will come up.

Doing that now. They suggest a few days (I think) for the test. I'm pretty certain I won't have any issues, we've never had water issues here. Better safe than sorry, though.


Also, unless you put down anti-slip (fine sand) at the same time, your floor will be slippery, especially if there is any sawdust on it. My floor isn't slippery to the point where there is danger of slipping and falling down, but I use mats in front of machines where I apply horizontal force to the work (jointer, TS, etc.) so my feet don't slide sideways when I push.


That is good advice. I'm going to be using two coats of the paint. If the first coat seems real slippery, I'll add the non-slip to the 2nd coat.

I went to a paint shop today that sells primarily to painting contractors (it is a Sherwin Williams store). They were my last stop after visting Menards, Lowes, and Home Depot.

I've used this particular store before. I've regretted, on occasion, buying paint elsewhere.

I knew they carried the Drylok E1 (one-part epoxy) because they are listed on Drylok's web site.

I asked about concrete floor paints and he was very excited to tell me about the E1. He said they sell a lot of it, and the contractors have been impressed. He said not all S-W stores carry the stuff, but his manager likes it and it continues to sell well for them.

I said I was only using it for a basement and he said the contractors routinely use it in garages, and there are no problems w/ tires or wet cars.

So I got a couple of cans of it.

My mind had previously been made up to get the Rustoleum, but the E1 can be walked on/recoated in four hours, and I've been very happy otherwise with the Drylok products I've used over the years.

The Drylok is a semi-gloss, instead of satin like the other one-part epoxy products. So I think it will be more durable and easier to clean. But like you mentioned, it will also probably be quite a bit more slippery.

Especially more slippery than the glue.

BTW, if paint manufacturers want to make a concrete paint that is nearly indestructible, they should just get the recipe for that glue and add some color to it.

Thanks for the reassuring words.

[Chip Lindley]

Phil, your tile glue must be more tenacious than mine was on adhesive-backed tile squares. It bubbled and came right up with the torch is big gobs. A wipe down with min. spirits made my basement floor ready for thin-set and new ceramic tile.

Best of Luck grinding yours!

[Phil Thien]

Phil, your tile glue must be more tenacious than mine was on adhesive-backed tile squares. It bubbled and came right up with the torch is big gobs. A wipe down with min. spirits made my basement floor ready for thin-set and new ceramic tile.

Best of Luck grinding yours!

I wish these were adhesive-backed tiles. The guy that did this work (previous homeowner) wouldn't have used those because when he did this work, he thought of everything he could do to make fixing his messes harder and more complicated.

:)

[Andrew Howe]

Do not waste time with a one part epoxy like paint. I bought a home depot brand and it is not very durable. I picked up some floor paint from sherwin Williams and will be rolling that on over it. Pay the extra money and get good paint.

[Chris Fournier]

One part is half the solution when it comes to water based epoxies. Don't bother with it. Two part is infinitely more durable. I have use both and the 2 part Sherwin Williams in my machine shop is incredible stuff.

[Phil Thien]

One part is half the solution when it comes to water based epoxies. Don't bother with it. Two part is infinitely more durable. I have use both and the 2 part Sherwin Williams in my machine shop is incredible stuff.

It turns out my one-part epoxy is just acrylic paint with some aluminum oxide (for build and abrasion resistance) and some hardened (and ground) epoxy so they can say "epoxy" on the can. :)

But I think it will be durable enough for my application.

[Chris Fournier]

Durablity is bit complicated when it comes to floor paint.

I think that surface prep is critical and I have always degreased and acid etched my floors prior to painting. I hate the acid etching portion of prep but it pays dividends.

Back to durability I would rate a floor paint on resistance to abrasion - walking, dragging traffic etc. and then adhesion to the base material. The 2 part was far superior in both respects. This being said, in my current shop I used a standard latex floor paint because it is cheap and I can just haul out the roller and freshen trouble areas up as needed. As soon as I have to mix epoxy you can be sure that the touch ups are ignored or cursed, not repaired.

I use the epxoy in shop areas that see cutting oils, way lube and grease as it seems to clean up very well. In your woodshop you won't be staining your floors with this stuff so you can choose high street or low street.

[Jim Andrew]

I haven't checked lately, but when I was using a lot of paint, found that SW made Walmart's paint. Wonder if they have the 2 part epoxy floor paint?

[Phil Thien]

I haven't checked lately, but when I was using a lot of paint, found that SW made Walmart's paint. Wonder if they have the 2 part epoxy floor paint?

Not sure.

In hindsight, though, I'm glad I'm not using a two-part product.

After putting my first coat on the section of floor I've done so far, I realized I did a crappy job patching a hairline crack. The crack would have hardly been noticeable, but my 2-part epoxy filler wasn't ground smooth enough. As a result, it stuck out like a sore thumb.

So I ground it smoother and then re-coated with the floor paint.

Then I realized the area I re-ground was TOO smooth, it didn't match the rest of the floor.

So I re-ground a larger area and blended my grinding in with the other grinding I had done. Then I re-painted it again.

Now it looks great.

Had I been using two-part product, I'd probably have wasted a ton of expensive two-part epoxy paint trying to make it look better.

[Randy Alkins]

Devran is used on hulls of ships and seems to hold up pretty well. Used in USCG for hull and decks.

[Ryan Stagg]

Timely topic - I'm getting ready to do this in my newly-framed basement shop.

Others have mentioned that the odor of the two-part isn't too bad - has anyone done this in a basement shop with no windows? I'm a little concerned about ventilation.

Also, what has anyone done or planned to do for cleaning up the acid etch? I've no floor drain in this section of the basement. Is mopping practical?

[Phil Thien]

Timely topic - I'm getting ready to do this in my newly-framed basement shop.

Others have mentioned that the odor of the two-part isn't too bad - has anyone done this in a basement shop with no windows? I'm a little concerned about ventilation.

Also, what has anyone done or planned to do for cleaning up the acid etch? I've no floor drain in this section of the basement. Is mopping practical?

There are water and solvent-based two-part epoxy products. The odor from water-based is little worse than latex paint.

If you don't have windows or a floor drain, I'd strongly encourage you to use one of the green etching products.

Lots of good stuff to read over at garagejournal dot com on this stuff.

[Ryan Stagg]

There are water and solvent-based two-part epoxy products. The odor from water-based is little worse than latex paint.

If you don't have windows or a floor drain, I'd strongly encourage you to use one of the green etching products.

Lots of good stuff to read over at garagejournal dot com on this stuff.

Thanks for the info, Phil - I'll check it out.

[Don McManus]

+1 on the antislip & chips. At my last place, I used a one-part epoxy alone, and traction was ok, until i sanded something. The sanding powder made the semi-gloss slipperier than an ice rink. No fun when using a router handheld...

When we moved last year, I put down 2part rustoleum with 3x the chips and teh antislip additive. This floor just feels a lot safer, especially when trying to sidestep around clutter like cords, vac hoses , etc while carrying my 80 lb "portable" planer.