Groz #7 Jointer

[Mark ten Haaf]

Does anybody have any experience with Groz? Woodcraft has them on sale right now, and I'm willing to put some sweat into tuning it, but how bad are they? Would I be better off getting an old Bailey off E-Bay?

[Derek Gilmer]

Ebay might work but SMC classifieds or other woodworkers in the area may be your better bet. I got my stanley #7 for $65 and all it needed was a little honing to get up and going. And there are places you can find really nice reground/honed jointer planes for around $130.

[David Weaver]

You would probably be better off getting a jointer from someone who is using one.

Whether or not the groz would be OK would be something you could tell only after getting one and looking it over and using it. Worst case, the frog wouldn't be right and the bottom concave or with twist. I have gotten vintage planes that are very concave, though, too, but at least after you're done tuning them, you have something you can sell if you decide to move up to premium planes.

A vintage jointer is no walk in the park if it's not right when you get it, thus the suggestion to get one from someone who is already using one for actual dimensioning and edge jointing, etc.

[Caleb Larru]

I have a bailey #7 type 11 and a #8 can't remember the type that I will be selling in the next couple of days as soon as my LN #8 arrives.

[Mark ten Haaf]

I have a bailey #7 type 11 and a #8 can't remember the type that I will be selling in the next couple of days as soon as my LN #8 arrives.

Please send me a P.M. if you don't already have a buyer, Caleb.

[Trey Palmer]

Does anybody have any experience with Groz? Woodcraft has them on sale right now, and I'm willing to put some sweat into tuning it, but how bad are they? Would I be better off getting an old Bailey off E-Bay?

I want to sell an English Stanley #7 with a Record iron that was machined flat by the previous owner, it should be better and cheaper than the Groz Woodcraft has on sale. PM me if interested.

[James Phillips]

I have a groz block plane and it took some work to flatten. I would not want to flatten the sole on a cheap #7. That is a lot of metl to remove

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Whether or not the groz would be OK would be something you could tell only after getting one and looking it over and using it. Worst case, the frog wouldn't be right and the bottom concave or with twist. I have gotten vintage planes that are very concave, though, too, but at least after you're done tuning them, you have something you can sell if you decide to move up to premium planes.


I have an old MF 22C I recently got - it's got a bit of convexity to it; (no twist though) is this less an issue than concavity? I've tried it out, and it seems to work okay other than me needing to work on my technique when using such a long plane.

And by concave, you're talking about the heel and toe being coplaner, and the center being recessed, if you held a straight edge against the sole? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how the mechanics of being concave or convex would be worse (obviously we're hopefully talking very small amounts - neither would be great in large amounts)

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I think the Groz is a poor way to spend your money. I bought a Groz, noticed how much work it would take to fix, and brought it right back. The Woodriver planes are quite nice if you're looking for a lower priced plane that works reasonably out of the box. They don't make a jointer yet, though.

Beyond that, I'd spend my money on an old plane if I were looking for a fixer-upper because it's cheaper so much cheaper potentially.

[David Weaver]

I have an old MF 22C I recently got - it's got a bit of convexity to it; (no twist though) is this less an issue than concavity? I've tried it out, and it seems to work okay other than me needing to work on my technique when using such a long plane.

And by concave, you're talking about the heel and toe being coplaner, and the center being recessed, if you held a straight edge against the sole? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how the mechanics of being concave or convex would be worse (obviously we're hopefully talking very small amounts - neither would be great in large amounts)

Concave is worse. You are correct, proud at the toe and heel with the mouth recessed. A plane like that, with a fine cut, is required to make the wood convex by the amount of the concavity to plane in the middle of a board. I've had planes as bad as a hundredth concave. That's a pain.

When they are slightly convex, they still work out most of the out of flatness of a board - functionally for gluing they are flat, because it takes very little pressure to influence them one way or another a few thousandths. They will make a continuous cut on a flat board, where a concave soled plane won't.

Btw, I have seen people worry about the last few inches or the front inch or so of a jointer plane being a few thousandths proud of the rest of the bottom, or the comment that such a thing makes them the same as a 5 or 6. I don't agree with that - if you're dimensioning rough lumber, they will still be more effective at jointing than a short plane. If you're taking a 1 thousandth smoother shaving off of a machine planed board, maybe they aren't the same, but there's no reason to use a jointer on a board like that, anyway - it only needs to be smoothed.

[Jim Koepke]

Just my
187109

The offers that others have made sound like a much better deal than the Groz.

My experience is documented in Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs.

I liked the old rehab so much that I sold my newer #7. The older plane was not any better, it just has more of me in its sole and soul.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Btw, I have seen people worry about the last few inches or the front inch or so of a jointer plane being a few thousandths proud of the rest of the bottom, or the comment that such a thing makes them the same as a 5 or 6. I don't agree with that - if you're dimensioning rough lumber, they will still be more effective at jointing than a short plane. If you're taking a 1 thousandth smoother shaving off of a machine planed board, maybe they aren't the same, but there's no reason to use a jointer on a board like that, anyway - it only needs to be smoothed.

As the old saying goes, "it is not the tool, it is how you use it."

jtk

[Trey Palmer]

Just my
187109

The offers that others have made sound like a much better deal than the Groz.

My experience is documented in Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs.

I liked the old rehab so much that I sold my newer #7. The older plane was not any better, it just has more of me in its sole and soul.

jtk

Same here. I have a type 9 #7C with SW iron that I'm likely only the second owner/user of. It is an imperfect tool that I love.

[David Hostetler]

I have a Groz #4 and #5. The #4 was an easy as pie tuning, took me less than an hour of fiddling with it on a Saturday afternoon. The #5 took some fairly extensive work to get the frog flat and the sole flat. The blade / irons in both of them are pretty poor.

I would say go for an old Stanley / Bailey IF you can find one. They aren't real easy to come by around here, and when they do come up they are at a premium price... I want to grab one of those Groz #7s and do the tune to it, and throw a Hock iron and chip breaker at it... That's what I ended up doing to my other Groz planes...

[Bob Stroupe]

I would also look for an old plane first.
I've personally never been a big fan of e-bay or any other type of sight unseen mail exchange, but old jointers are just as hard to find in my part of MI. I've only come across two metal jointers, both Stanley #7's. They were both in very rough shape and the asking prices were over 100 bucks. Somebody bought 'um though...
I did see quite a few old inexpensive wooden jointers when I first started looking, but it seems somebody has come through here and bought them all up like friggin hot cakes.
So, just recently I finally broke down and bought a Stanley #32. It had been sitting in the same spot in an antique mall ever since I started hunting. Everything about it looked good except a badly pitted blade, a broken tote, and a price tag that seemed a little steeper than what I’ve read it should be. I was tired of looking, and I thought whoever was buying the old wooden jointers may turn their sights on the transitionals too. It was still less expensive than even the cheapest foreign junk sold today. However I still need a new blade and that will probably put it in the same price range as the on sale Groz #7.

[Mark ten Haaf]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. I just bought a #7 Stanley from Trent.
Thanks, Trent!

[David Weaver]

Vintage was definitely a better idea.

[Terry Beadle]

I bought a Record #7 about 8 yrs ago. I put a Clifton blade and stayset in it. Total cost about $150. It works great.

I don't know what blade you got in the #7 from Trent. If it's a Hock, Clifton, LN or LV upgrade blade then you are golden. IMO the upgrade blades are really a significant improvement to stock Stanley.

I like my customized Record so much, I gave up my plane envy of a LN 7! And it was a serious case of plain (pun) envy!

Enjoy the shavings !

[Prashun Patel]

You could get lucky and the sole could be flat enough. However, the reviews and the clearance price lead me to believe that's a bad bet.

I think yr better off elsewhere.

[David Hostetler]

Just for those seeking out info here, and not really relevant to the original post as it is now 9 months + old, but...

I have the Groz #4, #5, #6, and #7, and the standard block plane. All of them required tuning including spending a little bit of time with a needle file cleaning up frogs, and lever caps, not to mention honing. The #5 sole was the one that required the most work, but was still well within the .003" specification from the factory.

Overall I like the planes quite a bit, but don't much care for the blades as they don't hold an edge at all well. Moving forward I fully intend to replace the OEM cap irons and blades with the A2 cap irons and blades from Lee Valley / Veritas. With that issue handled, my only real complaint with the planes will be solved. Considering that I bought them on sale / clearance, the #7, with the replacement iron / blade will still run me less total than $125.00. That is still less than say a #4 WoodRiver, which still isn't a premium plane...

It appears that Woodcraft is dropping the Groz line, which is a pity... They do seem to be fairly well made, just need some final tuning is all. They could do a better job of tuning them and making them usage ready right out of the box, but for what you pay for them, what can you expect?

[Mark ten Haaf]

Hi, Terry.
Actually, there is a Record iron in it. Nice and thick - its cuts better than any of the old Stanleys I've used so far. I'm very happy with the whole setup.