Opinions please - Rockwell Unisaw?

[Jim Laumann]

Spotted this on a area CL....


The ad reads:

Rockwell 10" Unisaw Table saw

This table saw is in good condition with a little rust. It ran great last time it was used. I can not use it at my house, it need 3 phase power. Includes the rip fence and 2 jigs. Model 34-450. It has 2HP motor.


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Looks to have the original rip fence, w/ a wood sacrificial side attached. Pic does not show any extenstion table, etc.


I would think that I should be able to swap out the 3ph motor w/ a single phase 220v - correct?

Since it can't be fired up on site - should there be a discount on the asking price.

I've got a 10" contractor saw, so this one adds no extra capacity (or am I wrong) - other that horse power and the fact its a cabinet saw.....


Thks

Jim

[Joe Angrisani]

I would think that I should be able to swap out the 3ph motor w/ a single phase 220v - correct? Since it can't be fired up on site - should there be a discount on the asking price?

Yes and Yes, but whether it's cost-effective depends on price, age and condition. So..... What the price? Age/model? Define "a little rust". (What we think of as a little rust in Colorado is probably rust-free in Florida, and what Florida calls a little rust is probably severe rust here in Colorado)

[Mike Hollingsworth]

The mount is unique to the Unisaw. A single phase motor will set you back at least $350.

[Brian Weick]

Jim,

There is no need to swap out the motor- IMO I would NOT do that. 3ph machinery runs more efficient than single phase. You obviously don't have any other 3ph equipment in your shop , however- if you plan on ramping up to the commercial/industrial equipment I can see where a RPC (rotary phase converter) would be of use to run all your 3ph equipment if you plan on going this route.

IMO- What I have done is purchase VFD's (Variable Frequency Drive) on all of my equipment instead of using am RPC- more costly but also more efficient than RPC's- IMO. I have very little machinery in my shop that is not 3ph. A variable frequency drive will give you an insurmountable amount of options including slow start/ramp down and dynamic breaking (depending on the model) personally I only use Yaskawa drives - they are a little more expensive but well worth it...

My advise.. if the saw is mechanically sound- grab it.. keep the motor and get yourself a VFD ,, and welcome to the OWWM world....http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gif

B,

[Jim Laumann]

Joe:

Omitted the price - $500 - also text - "come by and make a offer". Can't speak to the rust - haven't seen it in person. Saw location is about 100 miles away from where I am located. Age is unknown - don't have a serial number yet - just started to try to research it on OWWM.

Mike:

Your motor mount comment is a "ouch". Can you or anyone else elaborate on the 3 ph conversion options. I have seen the term "rotary" here on SMC, but don't know what that is/means....

Many thanks

Jim

[Jim Laumann]

Brian

Thanks for the reply - it showed up prior to my prev. one. You are correct - no 3 ph in the shop (just 220V 1ph (60A) at this time).

Is there any way of testing the existing motor and switches prior to laying down money w/o having the power available?

Jim

[Brian Weick]

OK- this will help you... but in your case (unless you plan on getting more 3ph equipment - RPC is constantly running and consuming electricity constantly- I wouldn't IMO) .

I would go the VFD route. It's quite simple. A VFD takes 220 single ph in and converts it to 3ph via frequency manipulation.... can't explain this in short terms...

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/industrial/equipment/vfd/vfd.cfm?attr=0

B,

[Cary Falk]

My $.02 here.

$500 for a 3phase Unisaw with the old tube fence is too much. I paid $450 for what sounds like the same one. Once you figure motor/rpc, fence, paint, electrical, splitter, etc it is not a bargain. Don't get me wrong a plug'n'play single phase one for that price can be. I ended up no cheaper then a Grizzly 1023. I ended up selling my Uni last year for G1023RL so I could have better dust collection and riving knife. I love the Grizzly. The Uni was cool looking with the art deco cast iron base and it was a great project to figure out how a table saw works. I only bring this up because I don't want you to go into this blindly like I did with delusions of a super cheap Cabinet saw. I was also convinced by members of another forum that the Uni is this magical saw that nothing else compares to.

I'm not telling you not to buy it. Do your research and know the cost it will take to get it to the saw you want it to be. My Uni was a 1970 34-450 with a cast iron base and square motor cover. A few years before that they had an oval motor opening and goose egg cover. I am not sure if it fell under the same model number. IF it has an oval motor opening, you average Unisaw replacement motor will not fit in the opening.

[Brian Weick]

Brian

Thanks for the reply - it showed up prior to my prev. one. You are correct - no 3 ph in the shop (just 220V 1ph (60A) at this time).

Is there any way of testing the existing motor and switches prior to laying down money w/o having the power available?

Jim

Yes & no (MOTOR ONLY). 3 ph has 4 leads - L1/L2/L3-G 220 ,single phase works between the ground - 2 hot leads working off the ground 110 +110 giving you 220 single ph. 3 phase has 3 hot leads that are working off each other , best way to explain it..
if you try to test that motor with 220 VLT single ph line it is going to sit there and hum- however... this is how some RPC are started.(to much info to throw at you now).. you can take a rope and rap it around the pulley on the 3ph motor flick a temp switch to start the motor off of 220 single ph ( 2 hot leads), it will hum (missing the third leg). then pull the rope and it should run at that point... I wouldn't do this IMO - you do risk frying the windings if left idle for to long. The easiest way to check the motor windings is pull the cover off the motor- pull the 3 leads out and test each one against the frame -(ohm meter) you should have the same reading for all the leads...

hope this helps...

B,

[Jim Laumann]

Here is a pic of the saw as it appears in the ad.

187006

I assume the sq cover is the motor access port....and that the fence is the "tube" fence.

Jim

[Brian Weick]

That Unisaw appears to be from the 70's 80's - do you have the serial # -that would help. cover/fence- correct. The bell covers were on Unisaw models from 1939 -46 according to the records...

offer him $400.00 & tell him your going to need to spend ann additional $200.00 for a VFD- that's as low as I would go though,,, you don't want to insult the guy- The quality differences from a Unisaw & a Grizzly are negligible- by a long shot (IMO) :rolleyes:


B.

[Gregory King]

Jim, without any more hesitation, buy it. You won't find a better saw. Trust me. We still have one at work. Ours has the 3 phase motor as well. We added the 52" biesmeyer fence to replace the old 24". With a little searching, you can find a motor. And the rust will clean-up with a random orbit sander. The only thing we have done to ours is replace the arbor bearings and belts. It runs as good as new. Delta still has the replacement parts. I would suggest bolting to the floor. All the difference in the world. Actually, we had two of these in our shop. Sent the other one 3 years ago to local auction. Replaced with delta x unisaw, single phase. Only because we wanted to update. The old saw is still more preferred than the new one for cabinet work. The most telling difference between both saws is in the initial startup. The 3 phase is very smooth. The single phase gives a loud bang. All in the design, I suspect. I should have my head examined for not buying the old one. Have a King one at home. No relation, but there is no comparison between the two saws.

[Chip Lindley]

The Rockwell Uni appears quite clean and ready to run. Inclusion of the dust door is a $100 plus! The motor cover is not same shade of gray and may be shop-made, if original, there is another $100-plus! The saw may need arbor bearings, or not. It looks too clean to have been used very hard during it's lifetime. But bearings are an easy rehab. No biggie!

A VFD will easily rectify your motor woes to run on single phase 230v current. IMO, the jet lock fence is the weak link on this deal. You will want a better Biesemeyer or clone soon, I'm betting. Offer $400--$450. All depends on the seller's motivation. $500 would not be out of the question, since you will not have to go parts-hunting!! There are lots of Unisaws offered on eBay or CL that are in beater condition. This one is easily an 8 on a scale of Unisaw 10! You better try hard to grab it!

Edit: OOPS, it's Gone from the Denver CL! Hope you are the lucky owner now!

[Gregory King]

Ok, Jim don't keep us hanging in the air. Did you purchase it? Drum roll please, as we wait.

[Jim Laumann]

Greg, others

Just found your post.....

I am not in the Denver area. I did call the owner of the saw last night, he still has it, am going to try to get there this weekend for a look.

Will advise....

Jim

[Paul Steiner]

Buy that saw. I got mine for about $450 with that same fence included. Mine is older but 2hp 3 phase. Ditto, offer 300 to 400 because you will need a phase converter. You can get a converter on ebay for $100.

[David Gandy]

You will love this saw. The jet-lok fence is not a bad fence and I have built many things with mine (but I found a 52" Bies on CL for fifty bucks and I am gonna put it on because mine has the short tubes). If you need help with your unisaw, can be found www.owwm.org which is a wonderful site. I currently have 17 OWWMs.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/rodeking2/100_0881-1-1.jpg

David G....who bought my unisaw for 350 bucks and changed bearings and wow.....

[Chip Lindley]

Greg, others

I am not in the Denver area.

Jim

Oops...Wisconsin! Sorry ;-)

The fact the saw is still available, sez something about the asking price for a 3-phase machine. Offer $400!

[Brian Weick]

Did Jim find a new home for it ?

B,

[Chip Lindley]

Who knows?!?! I guess he is either sulking because it got away, or busy tearing it apart for his rehab!

[hank dekeyser]

Jim, I have the same saw- you can get any part for it all day long. As long as the table is good, and trunnion functions properly, you should be OK- Personally I would offer $300 based on 3ph power. Go from there- 3ph stuff doesnt usually sell quick. Make the upgrade to a 3hp single phase motor (shop around, they're not too $$) Hang onto the 3 ph motor in case you need to build a phase converter someday- (yes I said BUILD a phase converter)

my 2 cents

[jim washer]

I just bought (3 days ago) a late '90's Uni, in PERFECT condition, 52inch Unifence, 3HP 1Ph, for $520. This saw looks like it just came out of the factory box. There's hardly any sign of boards sliding along the fence. I doubt it was 20 hours on it. My point? With today's economy, there are, sadly, a lot of Uni's for sale. Unless you are in a big hurry, take your time, find a single phase unit, or pay ~$300 for the saw you are describing.

[Chip Lindley]

WTG Jim! Great gloat on a pristine Uni! Your machine is the exception from most Unisaws I see for sale on eBay or CL. The vast majority for sale have seen plenty of use, with various "make-do" modifications during their lifetime. Unisaw Afficianados draw the line when Delta changed from the old cabinet with dust door to the newer solid cabinet. This change also coincided with when Delta began to increasingly use Chinese parts "assembled in USA."

The Unisaw the OP has in mind, is one of the nicer units I have seen in quite a while. In view of it's age, and the fact it appears not to be missing the parts that up the ante; $450 or $500 might be a fair price. Consider yourself wayy lucky too!

[Mike Hollingsworth]

SawStop put a lot of old Unisaws on the market.

[Jim Laumann]

Update....

I did not buy the saw (in Wisconsin)....

I pondered the decision for quite a while....in the end, it seemed better not to persue it....

Why?

I have a mid 70's 10" contractor saw - yeah - it's a Craftsman, but it has served me well.

I have a limited budget (supply of cash), and w/ the Unisaw being 3 phase, even if the owner agreed to sell, I couldn't swing the phase convertor for a while.

I could really use a band saw, and a floor stand drill press. My cash supply could get me the drill press now, and I'm not far from the band saw - not to mention some smaller goodies like a biscut jointer, Wolverine system (for my lathe chisels), etc....

Thank you for all the replys - this was a good starter education on 3 ph power....

Jim

[Mike Schuch]

2hp 3ph... you can pick up a VFD for ~$200. This will give you soft start and the capability to add a braking resistor to slow the blade should you ever want to. With a 3ph motor you don't have any starting capacitors or centripetal switches to worry about (a new 1ph motor you won't have to worry about them either but it will be a concern for your off spring some day). I guess what I am saying is that I believe a 3ph motor on a VFD is a nicer setup than a 1ph motor.

I would take $500 with me and offer $400. Personally I prefer a left tilt blade but that is just a personal preference. I used the tube fence on my Powermatic 65 for 6+ years before a Vega landed in my lap for cheap. I always wished for a nicer fence but the original Powermatic tube fence was very usable! Now I really miss having a hold down lock on the back rail of my Vega and Besmeyer fences!