Best Laser for Jewelry?

[Daniel Duane Owen]

Hi,

First, I want to apologize for adding to the stale topic of "which laser should I get," but going through thousands of old posts for bits and pieces would take me hours.

My boss just decided he wants to supplement our mechanical engraving with a new laser machine, and he's left it to me to research and find our best options. I'm pretty sure he's willing to put up to $10K into it, which to me seems like enough to get something more than decent. We don't need really high wattage since we won't really be cutting metals, just marking them (from my understanding 50W should be enough for most jewelry engraving, but I really have no idea).

Primarily we want to laser text and designs on rings, since our mechanical methods don't yield the greatest look in that department. We're wondering if it's possible to do insides of rings with one of these machines? He is looking into bulk ordering steel and tungsten rings (which I'm pretty sure have to be marked with something like Thermark?) so that's the market he wants to expand.

Other applications we hope for: glass engraving (I have the impression from my scant research here that lasering glass is very tricky, maybe someone can clear that up for me)
Colorizing jewelry engravings
Cheap metal gift items like keychains, money clips etc. (by cheap I mean unpredictably plated like so much of that stuff is)
Engraving photos--not sure what materials are best for this though

Another specification we absolutely need is a rotary attachment.

We are looking at a laser made by CAMFive, CFL-CMA6040K. It mostly has the specs we're looking for but we want some expert outside opinions before we do anything.
Otherwise, I know Epilog and LaserPro are popular choices.

We're very far from making an educated decision, so any input would greatly appreciated.

[Martin Boekers]

You won't find a CO2 laser anywhere near that for cutting metals, even marking them takes a bit of power to do that.

Check with Cermark and see what metals will it work on. Platings sometimes seem to be an issue from what I have seen here.
I have had Epilog make some test engravings for me on products I sent before I got into this industry, see if any of
the laser vendors will do some tests for you. If you ever get a chance to got to a trade show that's the easiest way to contrast
machines.

Make sure Cermark will hold up to "body oils"

As for taken time to sort through posts, we like to call it research! When I first found this forum years ago that was the first thing I did.
Start at post 1 and read all of them. After you do that you will have learnded quite a bit about lasers, products, techniques, and the industry
it is an education well garnered.

Actually you may want to do that first as you may decide after that a laser might not be your best investment.




Inside of ring will prove to be difficult and not sure Cermark will hold up for that.

You'll find with a bit of research many of us have rotaries and many of us dislike
the way they operate. They are expensive for the return on investment.

Some have made a market with anodized rings that are engraved on the outside.



Marty

[Daniel Duane Owen]

Thanks, that's all good to know.
What kind of power should I be looking for if I want to mark metals? I noticed that Epilog and others have 60-100W machines in the 30K range, while other machines with similar wattage can be found for less than 10K; I'm not sure why this is.

Going to a trade show sounds like a great idea--do you know where I can find more info about that?

I'll see if Cermark can give me some answers, but I'm afraid with my limited knowledge I won't ask the right questions :confused:

[Dan Hintz]

Daniel,

You've opened Pandora's Box with such a wide question. In a nutshell, though...

Metal cutting (at least in the wattage range you're talking about) even thin items is going to be impossible. With a YAG/fiber laser you can cut aluminum foil ranges, but a CO2 isn't going to touch it. A YAG/fiber will allow you to engrave metal by itself, whereas a CO2 laser will require a marking compound (such as the previously mentioned Cermark). The YAG/fiber will also cost you several times more than an equivalent-wattage CO2 system. You'll want CO2 for glass engraving.

See how confusing it gets?

CO2 systems break down into two main categories:
1) Glass tubes, which is pretty much ever inexpensive Asian system (the ones you find for $1k-8k on eBay)
2) Metal tubes, which is typically a domestic design (US, Canada, some European models) starting at $10k and quickly hitting $25-30k+ for the wattages you're talking about.

Metal tube systems are typically better in quality control, durability, beam quality, usability of driver software, etc., but the Asian systems are getting better by the year (there's still too wide a variance for my comfort, however). Domestic YAG/fiber systems are approaching 6 figures for your desired wattage range.

It all depends upon where you want to spend the time/money...

[Daniel Duane Owen]

Thanks Dan, that cleared a lot up... so basically the only feasible machines in our price range for this sort of work are the less reliable ones. I don't know if my boss will want to gamble on something like that. He was inquiring about a YAG laser until I told him about your post. We're going to a trade show in a couple weeks so maybe we can get some more insight there.

We're willing to use a marking compound, but what is the preferred wattage for stuff like that?

[Dee Gallo]

Daniel, you might like to search for posts by Bruce Boone. He appears to be the resident expert on this subject, having experience with making jewelry and using a laser to mark it.

cheers, dee

[Rodne Gold]

You can pick up a 50w YAG , which will do what you need and then some (barring glass , insides of rings will be an issue too) for $10k - from China
I was quoted $10k for this laser
http://shenhuilaser.en.alibaba.com/product/340632168-50330523/SH_YAG_50W_laser_marking_machine_Mainly_for_metal_ .html
Speak to em and ask your questions , they have a sales/tech rep on skype, blanca yan . skype name is blanca610616

[David Fairfield]

Curious about the shortfalls of your mechanical engraver. Are you currently using a digital CNC engraver, and have you checked out the specialized CNC gear for jewlery? If so, where do you feel the laser will give superior results?
Dave

[Daniel Duane Owen]

David,
I'm no expert at mechanical engraving--I've been learning for 6 months at the most--but it seems to me that lasers give much better detail and generally look more professional. Sure diamond drags are fine for basic text or duplicating the 'old-fashioned' manual look, but for logos and decorative designs they fall way short. I am able to get a more finished look with a rotating diamond burnisher but I haven't been able to do this consistently. Plus, it seems like those burnishers get easily contaminated or chipped when used on metal, although this could be a result of my own errors.

BTW I'm using a Roland EGX-360, and it has pretty much every jewelry accessory I could want--rotary engraving, a 20k rpm spindle (which I rarely use unless burnishing glass), a ring chuck for inside and outside engraving, and a vice and a table for most other jobs. It also has a lubricant pump and filter but I rarely need it.
It's just that the diamond drag look has so little contrast and doesn't really go very deep, especially on harder stuff. I have had a little success cutting text into rings using my half-round bits, and this is either very difficult or I'm just plain bad at it; still, it does give a deeper, more permanent look when it comes out right. On the plus side, it works great on watch backs.
Maybe I'm not getting the full potential out of my Roland yet, but it's been a drawn out learning process so far.

Rodne,
I'll have to show my boss that link. He was looking at something similar: cmlaser.en.alibaba.com -- the 50W model is $12.5K; and another from Chanxin Laser which apparently goes up to 150W but I don't know the price--probably way too much.

Do you have experience with the Shenhui model? It seems like exactly what we're looking for.

[David Fairfield]

Daniel

I'd keep at the engraving machine, I don't think you can beat the looks and permanence of 3d engraved metal with a surface marking treatment. On the technical side, I believe most rotary devices for lasers are intended for big stuff like baseball bats and beer steins. Without specialized attachments, or clever modifications, you are likely going to have a real hard time making steady and consistent markings on a ring or bracelet. So get a demo of that gear first, before jumping in.

Also keep the learning curve in mind. 6 month's isn't really a lot of time to master a mechanical engraver. I may be slower than most, but it took me about three years to learn how to get the most out of the laser and graphic software, still learning.

Please keep us posted on what you do.

[Michael Hunter]

Have a look at the Rofin EasyJewel - a German-made laser especially for marking and engraving rings etc. and which seems to have the capability of marking the insides of rings (something that would be very hard to do with a "general purpose" laser).

They claim 0.4 to 0.6mm engraving depth in metal, with only a low-powered laser.

Bet they are cheap as chips (NOT).

[David Fairfield]

Just had a look at that Rofin laser Michael suggested ... now that is exactly what you're looking for! Amazing. A standard laser engraver cannot come close to what this machine will do!

[Dan Hintz]

Just had a look at that Rofin laser Michael suggested ... now that is exactly what you're looking for!
Except price... Rofin ain't cheap...

[Rodne Gold]

No experience with that or their fibre laser ($17000) but I will be back in mid May after visiting their factory , I will have a LOT more info after then if you can wait that long?

[Daniel Duane Owen]

Sorry, couldn't get the quotes right... "On the technical side, I believe most rotary devices for lasers are intended for big stuff like baseball bats and beer steins. Without specialized attachments, or clever modifications, you are likely going to have a real hard time making steady and consistent markings on a ring or bracelet." --David Fairfield If that's true, then how do companies produce high volumes of custom engraved rings? There must be some way they are lasering them, because the look definitely isn't mechanical. Of course the Rofin might be worth looking into just for that. Anyone know the pricing details on those?

[Bruce Boone]

The Rofin is around $80K. That was my front runner until I found a system with more power. It's into the 6 digits though.

[Daniel Duane Owen]

Wow impressive price for such a little machine.