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Rick Potter
03-15-2011, 3:23 AM
Facebook? Nah, I don't need 'friends' to know my every move.

Twitter? 140 characters is NOT a conversation.

MySpace? I'm not a teenage girl.

Lets face it, I am never going to get involved in meaningless twadle about nothing. Why bother? If I need to know something I just ask the Sawmill Creek panel. So far there is nothing so esoteric that they don't have an answer for me. I can even gloat about a new purchase, and no one complains. I am sure you are all laughing WITH me.

I guess what I am trying to say, using more than 140 characters, is that you Creekers ARE my social network.

Thanks,

Rick Potter

Dave Anderson NH
03-15-2011, 1:19 PM
For those who don't know, Rick used to bill himself as "Grumpy" back in the days of Badger Pond. It's not an insult, 'ceptin' maybe a friendly one.

I happen to agree with you Rick. When I am in my office and tied to the computer most of the day that is enough. I have an old fashioned regular cell phone and no interest in getting a Blackbery, an enhanced phone, or any of the other more modern devices. I don't text, use email on my phone, and don't belong to any of the "normal" social networks. My phone stays in my car, doesn't go into restaurants, stores, or other public places to rudely ring and disturb other people. At night, my cell phone is off unless I choose to use extra minutes to make a toll free call. I see no need and I have no desire to be connected to the world all of the time. Our society survived very nicely for millenia without instant communications 24/7. There is peace and serenity in not being connected all of the time.

David Weaver
03-15-2011, 2:16 PM
I'm in the same boat. The only time i ever log into facebook is if there is a news event and one of my friends is an expert - I know they'll be putting some sort of calibrating comments out there regarding something in the news.

I'm not even good with the phone, sometimes I miss calls on it for two days, because I don't remember to turn the ringer on loud enough, or I can't remember the settings.

My first cell phone would beep until you picked it up - sort of like the old microwaves that would beep once every 2 minutes or so until you remembered you left something in them. My phone now, there's probably something in the settings to make it like my old one, but I don't know how, and I always see missed calls in the morning.

Phones come and go so fast it's not like the old landline setup where there is a voice mail and a phone that rings loudly. I generally default to leaving mine fairly quiet so I don't forget it when i'm in a meeting.

But the social networks, I can just never remember to look at them in the first place, and in the second place, I usually come away thinking less of people after I read their posts, and I don't like that feeling. I'd rather just avoid it.

Jim Koepke
03-15-2011, 2:33 PM
+1 on what Rick said.

Enough of my time is spent on the computer reading SMC or the news outlets that I do not need something following me around and beeping every time someone decides to buy a milkshake or go to the bathroom.

Our cell service doesn't work until we get about a mile away from home.

The only reason we continue the service is because I can't figure out how to find my wife at Costco if we didn't have cell phones.

jtk

Belinda Williamson
03-15-2011, 3:13 PM
I'm pretty much in agreement with you guys. I did finally join Facebook because my family was about to disown me if I didn't. I see a whole different side some people on Facebook that has definitely changed how I think of them. It is nice to see photos of my little cousins that I probably wouldn't see otherwise. I just don't get the person I met Friday night wanting to be Facebook friends Saturday morning. I'm only "friends" with my friends.

Cell phone stays on vibrate. It stays on my side all day at work and I take it off when I walk in the door of my house unless I'm waiting for a work related call (which is rare). I go entire weekends that I don't pick it up off the nightstand. There are maybe 10 people who have the number.

I managed to get by just fine for a lot of years not being connected 24/7. Then again, I've been called a hermudgeon - a combination of a hermit and a curmudgeon. :D

Joe Leigh
03-15-2011, 3:25 PM
Facebook, spawned by the "Look at me"!! generation.
Never got the whole "blog" thing either. Who told all these people that what they had to say was so important? And when did they get the impression that anyone cared?
Don't get me started....

Bruce Page
03-15-2011, 3:30 PM
I am one of the last holdouts – we don’t even have a cell phone. I did buy a disposable wallyworld cell phone to use when I was working in Alaska. We may get one in the future when we start doing some traveling but I don’t see the need right now.
I did join facebook but I still don’t understande what it is all about. I get all these people that want to be friends that I don't know from Adam... :confused:

Rick Potter
03-15-2011, 4:51 PM
I do have a semi-admission to make. I am apparantly a member of facebook, even though I have never seen it. My wife and daughter like to play farmville, and used my name so they could get more 'farmland'. This has caused an increase in my junk mail from women calling me 'beloved' and wanting to be my 'friend'. I dump all 'friends' requests, even from real friends, because I would never read it anyway.

I AM grumpy Rick, since 1994 or so, that has been my e-mail address. Could be, there is a reason for that.

RP

Damon Stathatos
03-15-2011, 5:37 PM
I had been able to keep up fairly well with the technology highway until Myspace, which was, if I'm not mistaken, the first social network to be widely adopted.

At that time, I was struggling with texting, the kids would laugh at me for how long it took me to type even the shortest messages, but I was confident that in time I'd be able to actually adopt numbers for letters and semicolons parentheses combinations. Then Myspace was 'the thing' and it was at that time I decided to jump off the bus. What the heck, approaching 50, I'd stayed on the highway long enough, and now it was time to just use the resources I had available already and forget the rest.

Now when people text me, I call them back. It takes me less time and the communication is normally both methodic and logical (as opposed to disjointed) and most of the time, enjoyable. As far as I'm concerned, if my old friends want to find out what I've been up to, they're welcome to call.

In retrospect however, it may be too bad that I didn't adopt Myspace...who knows, it could have been me who invented Facebook, which would have been called 'Statsbook' (my nickname) had that been the case.

David G Baker
03-15-2011, 6:14 PM
I am a Facebook faithful. I don't use it to air my laundry, I use it to get back in touch and stay in touch with old friends and family that I had lost touch with years ago. I tried Myspace and found that it was not for me. I don't use Twitter and only use my cell phone when traveling as an insurance in case of an accident during the Winter months. Having worked in and around the news business for over 30 years I use Facebook to get quick updates on what is going on in the world from folks I once worked with. I visit Facebook several times throughout the day but rarely spend more than a few minutes at a time on it.
In my opinion social networks can work depending on a person's interests.

Frank Guerin
03-15-2011, 6:46 PM
I like the phone text thing even if it takes me awhile to do it. I don't want to answer the phone and listen to a 20 minute conversation that eventually boils down to someones poor me.


"Change begins when the pain of living your current life exceeds the fear of change"

Pat Germain
03-15-2011, 6:49 PM
I just don't get the person I met Friday night wanting to be Facebook friends Saturday morning.

Whoa, that was you? ;)

Curt Fuller
03-15-2011, 8:56 PM
Facebook, spawned by the "Look at me"!! generation.
Never got the whole "blog" thing either. Who told all these people that what they had to say was so important? And when did they get the impression that anyone cared?
Don't get me started....

Applied then, applies now....

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.
Edward R. Murrow (1908 - 1965)

Ron Bontz
03-15-2011, 9:35 PM
Well I joined Face book and then deactivated it. Too many people wanted to be my friend. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THEM. I am old, bald, ugly and broke (a sickness of the worse kind), so I somehow doubt it was my internet charm or fancy 2002 Dodge pick up, that attracted them.:D And no I don't "want to be naughty":confused: Ya just gotta love this new world we live in.:)

Eric DeSilva
03-15-2011, 9:38 PM
You all sound like you are trying to be part of the grumpy old men club. So you don't like FB. Don't join. So you don't want a cell phone. Don't buy one. So you don't want to blog. No one is forcing you too.

I have a cell phone. It helps me professionally to have my clients able to contact me wherever I am. They are responsible about that and don't use it frivolously. In exchange, it occasionally allows me to go places I wouldn't have been able to for fear of being out of touch.

I text. I didn't use too, but there are times when all I want to send is one sentence. The people I text are friends, and they know what it does or doesn't mean. Sometimes, for example, I'm stuck in a meeting and want to let my wife know I'm going to be late. I can text her discreetly with one hand, whereas pulling out a phone is a bit conspicuous. Sometimes I just need to let her know something, and don't have time for a call -- "I'm running late!" It is handy for things like that.

FB is FB. Just because they call the relationship "friending" someone doesn't mean that you have to adopt that definition. It is a connection. You can keep them tight and close and reveal lots of personal stuff because your relationships are all tight and close. You can open it up wide, and share only things you would post on a bulletin board on Times Square. For me, it is handy to keep up with certain friends, and it gives me a window into their lives to see what they are doing, pictures of their kids, etc.

So what is the big deal? A whole lot of people find these tools useful. That doesn't make them good or bad. They are just tools.

Jim Becker
03-15-2011, 10:21 PM
I am a Facebook faithful. I don't use it to air my laundry, I use it to get back in touch and stay in touch with old friends and family that I had lost touch with years ago.

Ditto for me...Facebook has been an incredible way to get back in touch with friends, family and certain acquaintances. Even my 79 year old dad participates fully. Until Facebook, our far-flung family rarely communicated at all. Now I actually regularly interact with cousins, their kids...some of whom I've never even met...aunts, uncles, nieces and nephews. And I also share many pictures of our family events and other things via Facebook, but only to those I want to. What I don't do, however, is friend many folks from work unless they really are friends. I keep Facebook personal. And I don't put anything on it that I wouldn't mind for my dad, mother, boss or anyone else to see, either.

It's not for everyone, however, and there is no problem if anyone prefers not to use it.

I also use LinkedIn for business networking. Texting is used for functional reasons, both personally and for work.

Bryan Morgan
03-16-2011, 2:17 AM
Facebook? Nah, I don't need 'friends' to know my every move.

Twitter? 140 characters is NOT a conversation.

MySpace? I'm not a teenage girl.

Lets face it, I am never going to get involved in meaningless twadle about nothing. Why bother? If I need to know something I just ask the Sawmill Creek panel. So far there is nothing so esoteric that they don't have an answer for me. I can even gloat about a new purchase, and no one complains. I am sure you are all laughing WITH me.

I guess what I am trying to say, using more than 140 characters, is that you Creekers ARE my social network.

Thanks,

Rick Potter

Amen to that. Plus, the CIA finances facebook... put all your inner thoughts on there and your buddies all tag you in their photos... no thanks. :)

Bryan Morgan
03-16-2011, 2:28 AM
Facebook, spawned by the "Look at me"!! generation.
Never got the whole "blog" thing either. Who told all these people that what they had to say was so important? And when did they get the impression that anyone cared?
Don't get me started....

Have you noticed that the younger generations treat real life as simply photo ops and dress rehearsals for their facebook page? I heard a kid saying "lol" in the grocery store the other day instead of laughing. My wife is on there to keep in touch with her family overseas and she has a couple local friends on there... I know these people in real life and the junk they write online is a complete fabrication. They always brag about going out and doing all this stuff that looks impressive or "cool" to their buddies but I know for a fact they were at home drunk or sleeping or whatever...

This is not good...:(

Mike Henderson
03-16-2011, 2:50 AM
Although I'm pretty much of a techie, I don't do Facebook because of privacy concerns. I have my own web site and I e-mail and text people I want to communicate with. When I want to share pictures, I put them up on page with a hidden link on my web site and send the link to the people I want to share them with. The Google bots find the hidden pages but I doubt if many people are searching for what I post.

I admit I don't understand the desire to live a "shared life" (such as the person entering the store while talking on their cell phone and giving a running commentary, "I'm at the store. I'm walking in the door, etc.")

Mike

Dan Hintz
03-16-2011, 7:04 AM
I see a whole different side some people on Facebook that has definitely changed how I think of them.
Come on, Belinda, that was one photo, and I already told you I didn't mean to send it to your Inbox :p Besides, consider it an early warning system... now you know when I'm traveling and when to get out of Atlanta before I arrive :D

Joe Leigh
03-16-2011, 8:01 AM
Have you noticed that the younger generations treat real life as simply photo ops and dress rehearsals for their facebook page? ... I know these people in real life and the junk they write online is a complete fabrication. They always brag about going out and doing all this stuff that looks impressive or "cool" to their buddies but I know for a fact they were at home drunk or sleeping or whatever...

This is not good...:(

Exactly, you get the impression that their lives are like some Sportscenter highlight reel. Just a desperate plea for attention. Like those insipid bumper stickers "My son is an honor student at XXY High school" Who cares?

Myk Rian
03-16-2011, 8:21 AM
Facebook, spawned by the "Look at me"!! generation.
Never got the whole "blog" thing either. Who told all these people that what they had to say was so important? And when did they get the impression that anyone cared?
Don't get me started....
I'm 100% with you on that one.

Belinda Williamson
03-16-2011, 8:48 AM
Come on, Belinda, that was one photo, and I already told you I didn't mean to send it to your Inbox :p Besides, consider it an early warning system... now you know when I'm traveling and when to get out of Atlanta before I arrive :D

LOL (and I really did laugh out loud) . . . I wasn't referring to you, Dan. I've actually enjoyed getting to know you a little better, and getting to see the wedding photos and you and your lovely bride. I was actually referring to the people who can't post without every other word being an obscenity (unfriended!), and my cousin who agreed to be a friend but then ignored me completely. I really take issue with people who tag me in photos without my permission (like J.T. the other day).

Most days I check FB a couple of times a day just for the entertainment value. But as I said previously, I'm really enjoying sharing a little more in the lives of my far flung kin. Since my grandmother passed away we don't really have a central place to gather or as much of a reason to it seems.

David Weaver
03-16-2011, 9:46 AM
Although I'm pretty much of a techie, I don't do Facebook because of privacy concerns. I

Neither do I, same reason. The guy who started the site has proven to be interested only in putting together a pile of data to use to generate revenue.

My wife made a page for me "because I have to have one". I don't really use it, there's no reason for me to put content and information on their site when other methods of communication are just as good and don't leave someone else with ownership of pictures and information.

Dan Hintz
03-16-2011, 10:26 AM
I was actually referring to the people who can't post without every other word being an obscenity (unfriended!)...
I have to watch myself at times, but I do my best not to watch too closely. For example, I have a few friends on there who are deeply religious... I'm an atheist embarrassed by little, so I'm content with making fun of anything and anyone (including myself). But Heaven forbid (note the irony of an atheist making such a statement) I should make a religious joke and offend one of them. I want to tame my humor for their sake, but at the same time if you're friends with me, well, you best be able to laugh at yourself. It's a balancing act, for sure...

Jason Roehl
03-16-2011, 10:38 AM
Neither do I, same reason. The guy who started the site has proven to be interested only in putting together a pile of data to use to generate revenue.



Someone (ironically, on Facebook) said something to the effect of, "If you're using a 'free' service, you're not the consumer, you're the product!"

I like Facebook, but like someone else said, just because FB calls everyone on my list 'friends', doesn't mean I see them that way. Many of them are mere acquaintances. I've been "unfriended" by quite a few. Big deal. They may not have liked something I posted. For me, it's a form of entertainment--I like to post humorous things, but I also am not shy about posting political items, either. I don't do any games or other apps related to FB, though, as that is where the really intense data mining takes place.

I don't have a landline (well, I have a MagicJack, but don't really use it), so my cellphone is my primary means of communication. It's also my business number, so it's out there. However, I took a page from a former SMC member's book--just because the phone rings doesn't mean I have to answer it. I pay for it, so I'm going to use it at my discretion. People in my presence are more important to me than someone trying to call me. If it's a call I'm expecting, I'll excuse myself and take the call, usually in another room or outside.

And, I'm no twit. Or, I don't tweet. Whatever...LOL...

Rick Potter
03-16-2011, 1:02 PM
It is interesting to see the tangent this thread has taken. I didn't mean it as a slam to all things techie, although I agree with a lot of it. I started it to say how much I appreciate you folks here at the Creek.

I have asked questions about many varied things from when to pick pears, to acupuncturist foot soaking, and I can never stump the panel. I have always gotten expert answers, advice, and sometimes humorous answers. The knowledge base here always amazes me, and we all have a common interest.

The members here are a nice mix of newbies to professionals, and are willing to share their expertise. The moderators do a great job of keeping it civil and friendly. I belong to a few other web sites, as I am also interested in hot rods, and Jeeping, but visit them seldom. This is the only site I visit every day, not only for info, but because I enjoy it.

As I said in the first post, you folks ARE my social network.

Thanks,
Rick Potter

Charles McKinley
03-17-2011, 2:50 AM
Hi Rick,

I got onto the pond shortly before it dried up. I think a lot of the feel here comes from the controlled nature that migrated here from there. I remember that there was a panic as that site closed. There was a feeling of almost family with people all over the country that most had never met in person. I feel very blessed that I have gotten to meet many of them at the end of the pond get togeather in Indiana and at the 5 barns picnics.

I had not been posting much the last couple of years and was amazed at the huge growth that occured here and pleasantly supprised that it remains the friendly and open plase that it was in the beginning.

I still don't post pics of my GITs here thought (or any place else for that matter.)

What ever happened to the man that started Badger Pond? I would really like to hear what he has to say about SMC as I heard he started BP mainly as a social experiment.

Orion Henderson
03-17-2011, 12:47 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. Don't like them? Don't use them. Simple as that. I do, and I enjoy them. I find social networking enjoyable for my personal life and somewhat useful for my professional life. I find e-mail from my phone helps me communicate with my customers, my friends, and my family from wherever I happen to be if need be. Even it is from the john on occasion. Blogs? There are blogs of ever stripe. From "look at what I am wearing today" personal stuff to analysis of commodities markets as they happen. I have a very active company blog with woodworking technical information (how to install half mortise locks, locate drawer pulls, etc). We have a couple of cabinetmaker interviews, kitchen design articles, and articles on blacksmiths. We have even run a small giveaway and are planning another in the future.

Belinda Williamson
03-17-2011, 12:59 PM
No big deal . . . just folks voicing their thoughts and opinions just like we always do here. Like 'em? Use 'em. Simple as that. No one is criticizing the user or non user.:)

Dan Hintz
03-17-2011, 1:51 PM
"Stop oppressing me!"

"We're not oppressing you, Stan..."

Eric DeSilva
03-17-2011, 3:54 PM
Belinda, are we reading the same thread? No one is criticizing the user? You haven't--and it may be unfair of me to put this in a reply to you (to be 100% clear, when I say "you" below, I mean "you, the naysayers," not "you, Belinda"). I find this thread somewhat appalling, both because it involves a whole bunch of people effectively bragging about their inability to use technology, but also because no one has noted the irony of most of the criticisms that are applied to others being applied to themselves.

Let me explain. As the OP noted, SMC is a social network. But what I don’t comprehend is why SMC is obviously good, and FB, Twitter, and blogs are bad (doesn’t SMC have blogs, btw?). Content on FB, Twitter and blogs is silly, but SMC is good, not because we are judging content, but because of the way they are communicated and what the use of the media says about the user. I laughed when I read the note about “other communications being just as good and don’t leave someone else with ownership of pictures and information”—say, like SMC forums?

But let me run through some quotes—some of which appear to me objectively to be derogatory or pejorative as to the users of these media—and some observations I'd make to the naysayers as food for thought:

"I don't need 'friends' to know my every move." Why would they? It is your decision what to tweet, or FB, or post on a blog. The implication that you have to open up more or give up more about yourself is patently incorrect and reflects only a lack of understanding of the media.

"140 characters is NOT a conversation." 140 characters isn't a conversation, but a bunch of serial 140 character thoughts exchanged between two people actually is. As for those saying a call takes less time, actually it doesn’t for many. I would much rather get an SMS than—say—have to listen to a rambling voicemail. Besides, sometimes I don’t want a conversation. Sometimes I just want to let my wife know that my flight arrived and I’ll be through the gate in a few minutes so she can pick me up outside.

"I do not need something following me around and beeping every time someone decides to buy a milkshake or go to the bathroom." The implication is that all communications are inconsequential, no? That somehow you will drown in trivialities if you participate? Most communications are opt in. If you find someone bleating that kind of stuff, the solution is simple--cease to friend them or follow them or read their blog. But not all communications that take place via SMS or blog or FB are inconsequential.

FB is "spawned by the "Look at me"!! generation." People who want people to look at them will find ways, FB or not. But sure, let's tag a whole generation with generalities spawned by our limited experience with the media. I might add that to the extent the younger generation is perceived as clamoring for attention, perhaps it is because the older generation has been too preoccupied to actually listen to them.

"Who told all these people that what they had to say was so important." Yes, certainly, all of the content on twitter, FB and blogs can be dismissed as junk. Because we should judge statements not by their content, but rather by the medium by which they choose to communicate. And the irony here is palpable--doesn't it occur to anyone that the sentiment is just as valid if pointed at any thread in the off topic forum? Sure, what *you* have to say is obviously important. Just not anyone else using “bad” social media.

"When did they get the impression that anyone cared." To the extent that you might regard social media as an attempt to be heard, did it ever occur to you that perhaps the reason the younger generation is doing all this is because you older folks aren't listening to them? I would also note that because they are young, assuming they have nothing valid to say is contemptible. I, for one, will never assume that wisdom and age are a 1:1 relationship.

"The younger generations treat real life as simply photo ops and dress rehearsals for their facebook page." Let's see... If we realize that, for many, FB is a mechanism for keeping friends apprised of their life--in a very open manner--why is wanting a picture to share on FB inherently bad? Ask yourself why it is that you seem to believe taking a picture to post on FB somehow takes a life experience and devalues it? There's logic there that I simply don't understand.

"I heard a kid saying "lol" in the grocery store the other day instead of laughing." I’m confused. Are you saying this is the first generation to adopt slang? I’m not really cool with that idea, hep cat.

"The junk they write online is a complete fabrication. They always brag about going out and doing all this stuff that looks impressive or "cool" to their buddies but I know for a fact they were at home drunk or sleeping or whatever." This one I find particularly odd, because it implies that a lot of content by these FB users and tweeters and bloggers is pure fabrication, spoken by a non-participant poster about participants. But, the basis for this comes from friends of the poster, not the younger generation that seems to be getting condemned here. Just because your friends lie on their FB page doesn’t mean that all FB is lies. In fact, I’m not sure the generalization extends beyond “your friends seem to be liars.”

Food for thought. My view is definitely “live and let live”—use the technology or don’t. I use some of it, I don’t use other parts of it. But recognize that—just like SMC—the technology is there for us to control. My FB network doesn’t include people that post trivial junk or lie. Yours is within your control—to the extent that you don’t like what you see on FB, that is a commentary about your network, not about FB. That being said, I don’t get ambivalence from this thread. I get a bunch of people who seem to be passing judgment and condemning not only the technologies, but also the users.

kevin loftus
03-17-2011, 4:10 PM
Why dont you just come right out and say what you really mean Eric.:p

Matt Meiser
03-17-2011, 4:16 PM
I'm only willing to read the first 140 characters so I'm not sure what he's saying :D

Orion Henderson
03-17-2011, 4:22 PM
There was an awful lot of "kids these days" generalizations in the earlier posts. I appreciate Eric for pointing that out rather clearly.

Belinda Williamson
03-17-2011, 4:31 PM
Eric,

I appreciate you taking the time to share your views. It does not appear to me that any poster had "called out" any other poster by name with criticism or for the purpose of ridicule. It just seemed to be a general discussion and at least in my case, I was more making fun of myself than of someone else, or of the media being discussed. I did not take it much to heart but I can understand that you have a different opinion. As with most things in life I tend to follow my favorite bit from the movie Roadhouse.

Cooler: "It's two nouns combined together to elicit a prescribed response."
Bouncer: "Well what if somebody calls my mama (a really bad name)?"
Cooler: "Well is she?"

Okay, now y'all can make fun of me for liking the movie. Basically I'm just trying to say if the shoe don't fit I don't bother trying to wear it. Doing so only gives me unncessary blisters and I'd just as soon go barefoot. While reading this discussion it reminded me of sitting on my grandfather's front porch listening to all the old farmers sitting around talking about the weather, the crops, them new fangled tractors and combines, and young 'uns these days. "These days" being more years ago than I want to admit. Some things never change. It doesn't make them right necessarily, but they don't change.

Bob Riefer
03-17-2011, 4:53 PM
Interesting thread. The wife and I were on facebook for awhile, and decided we didn't like it.. so we cancelled our account. No harm no foul. Then, on the other hand, I keep a blog where I write about barn building... and have a ton of followers and have made some great friends. Similarly, I love to follow threads here. The real kicker is that I love my smart phone because it has nearly eliminated my need to use a computer outside of work - technology killing technology.

But yeah, I agree, this is a nice social network here. :)

Dave Anderson NH
03-17-2011, 5:33 PM
Eric et al,
I suppose I started this thread meandering off Rick's intended track. My comments refered to me alone. Technology is neutral, is how people use it that makes it good, bad, or leaves it at neutral. My comments are explanations of my choices and what I feel appropriate for me as Dave Anderson. Anyone who is able to post here (ie use a computer) is technologically capable of using any of the other modes of communications. All it requires is some instruction, practice, or reading to get up to speed. What we have here is certainly a generational disconnect. I suppose my generation is less comfortable not with technology, but rather with its pervasiveness in 21st century everyday life. Those in the under 30 age bracket are neither better or worse than the rest of us. Rather, they have grown up in a world where communications technologies have been pervasive since they were children. In many cases it has always been that way during their lifetime and they have no recollection of time before cell phones, email, etc, etc. Again, this is neither good nor bad, its just a different perspective.

Joe Leigh
03-17-2011, 5:49 PM
Belinda, are we reading the same thread?.....blah blah blah...

I had a long reply all typed out but I'm saving that for my blog.

Callan Campbell
03-17-2011, 5:52 PM
Have you noticed that the younger generations treat real life as simply photo ops and dress rehearsals for their facebook page? I heard a kid saying "lol" in the grocery store the other day instead of laughing. My wife is on there to keep in touch with her family overseas and she has a couple local friends on there... I know these people in real life and the junk they write online is a complete fabrication. They always brag about going out and doing all this stuff that looks impressive or "cool" to their buddies but I know for a fact they were at home drunk or sleeping or whatever...

This is not good...:(
WHAT! People who "pad" their daily lives with made-up stuff on Facebook. I'm shocked, I'm speechless, LOL. OK, I don't blog, twitter, or post on Facebook, so I don't really care either... HEHEHEHEH PS, you should mess with them by posting that you can't rate them as a friend anymore since they're busted lying about their activities so much. But that would only come back to haunt you, so don't do that....

Eric DeSilva
03-17-2011, 6:04 PM
Dave-

There are some very fascinating issues with the generational disconnect that should be explored--somewhere, and I suppose a woodworking forum is no better or worse a place to find rational minds. I'm not trying to single anyone out--I'm just saying people ought to reflect a bit on whether they really are making a fair effort to bridge the divide.

I will agree wholeheartedly, for example, that I find the younger kids desire (I'm 46, so no spring chicken) to live the "shared life" (as Mike H. aptly put it) mystifying. It reflects a very serious philosophical difference about privacy--and for many this is a choice, not a failure to understand what they are doing. Recognize that many of us grew up in--or close enough too--McCarthyism and fear mongering about repressive fascist regimes to have a distrust of the government and generally of sharing too much information. These kids trust. And, sometimes I wonder whether their world--which is about trust--is a better one than mine.

But recognize that there are other profound philosophical differences working here beyond that--these people interact with the world in a very different way than we do. For example, we had an expectation--more or less--that opportunities existed for each and every one of us to do better than our parents did because the economy was growing. Think about what it means to grow up when, for most, the prospects are that you will NOT do as well as your parents.

It really is staggering to me the way that the world has changed in a single generation. But, it is incumbent on us to at least try to understand them. Remember, some day they are going to be taking care of us.

Eric DeSilva
03-17-2011, 6:07 PM
Belinda, I enjoy your posts, and it really was an accident of timing that meant your post preceded mine. So please don't take what I said as personal to you--especially since I appreciate your efforts (in more threads than this one) to lighten the mood.

Brian Elfert
03-17-2011, 8:44 PM
I have no social networking accounts, not even Facebook. I do a lot of email and web forums and that is it.

I do have a cell phone for work and it is with me 24x7 except when I am on vacation in a place with no reception. (Such places still exist in the United States.) My cell phone is strictly for voice calls. I don't text and I don't have a smart phone. There are many times when I would like to have a smart phone to browse the web for an answer, but then I remember the $50 to $100 a month and decide I can do without it.

Having a cell phone for work is much better than a pager. I don't have to find a phone to return a call. It is certainly MUCH better than sitting at home near the phone like on-call folks did before pagers and cell phones. I get maybe one call every few months for work problems so it isn't a big deal.

Mike Henderson
03-17-2011, 9:28 PM
I must admit I don't understand the attraction of Twitter. For those of you who use Twitter, why do you use it? I can understand sending text messages but I don't understand sending text messages (tweets) to a whole lot of people, many I may not know. Same with receiving messages (tweets) from people I may not know.

So what's the attraction of Twitter - why do you use it either to receive tweets or to send tweets?

Mike

Joe Leigh
03-17-2011, 9:31 PM
.....these kids trust. And, sometimes I wonder whether their world--which is about trust--is a better one than mine.


Eric, I respect your opinion and your passion in explaining it. You've referred to a "generational" issue several times and I disagree with that . When I said "look at me" generation it was a euphemism for a goup of people, some young, some old who are disproportionately self absorbed. Not trusting at all, in their minds its more important to show others how important or special their lives are that they will forgo privacy to do so. Sad in my view.

Rick Potter
03-17-2011, 9:32 PM
I started this thread for only one reason...to voice my appreciation for the Creek, and its members. My poor attempt at humor doing it apparantly touched nerves I never even thought about. If I have offended some I sincerely apologise.

Backing away,

Rick Potter

Dan Hintz
03-17-2011, 9:35 PM
Roadhouse Rules!

I knew I like you for a reason, Belinda...

Bill Cunningham
03-17-2011, 10:15 PM
I'd like to be more active on FB, but quite frankly I just don't have that much time to waste!

Bryan Morgan
03-18-2011, 1:38 AM
Food for thought. My view is definitely “live and let live”—use the technology or don’t. I use some of it, I don’t use other parts of it. But recognize that—just like SMC—the technology is there for us to control. My FB network doesn’t include people that post trivial junk or lie. Yours is within your control—to the extent that you don’t like what you see on FB, that is a commentary about your network, not about FB. That being said, I don’t get ambivalence from this thread. I get a bunch of people who seem to be passing judgment and condemning not only the technologies, but also the users.

A little overly defensive there duder. I'm by no means technically deficient, computers and networking is what pays my bills. I was just programming a pile of Cisco routers today for an MPLS/BGP roll out. Tomorrow I get to decommission a location and bring the fiber and server rack to another location. The day before I got to add another scalable fiber internet connection to our aggregator. I've grown up with this stuff, from old 1200 bps modems and WWiV systems up to today. I don't even have any degrees, I just learned from the inside out because I love technology. (or used to anyway...:) ) I've watched how this stuff changes people. Not just individuals but society. Sure, it has some good to it. Some of my friends use it to keep in touch with their families around the country. My wife uses it to keep in touch with her family overseas. But in my experience this isn't how most people use it, despite what they say. I'm very much a live and let live type of person. A libertarian bordering on anarchist. :) I'm also in "the O.C." where every other person is as phony as can be, and what I see going on online is just an extension of that. When I mentioned the kid saying "lol" instead of laughing, this is not just a slang word. This is depriving oneself from the physical act of laughter. This can't be healthy.

I'm in agreement with the original post. Forums like this are superior. I don't want to claim that I've seen it all with technology, but I kind of have and from the inside out. I have to so I can learn and leverage emerging technologies (or innovate our own) for my company.

Part of why I like woodworking, especially with hand tools, is to get away from technology as I'm surrounded by it all day. :)

Belinda Williamson
03-18-2011, 8:13 AM
Having a cell phone for work is much better than a pager. I don't have to find a phone to return a call. It is certainly MUCH better than sitting at home near the phone like on-call folks did before pagers and cell phones. I get maybe one call every few months for work problems so it isn't a big deal.

Brian, very good point and one I hadn't thought of prior to your post. My dad worked in the forestry industry prior to retirement. One of his job duties was to plow fire breaks when a forest fire broke out. When he had weekend call no one was allowed to use the phone for longer than five minutes. That was tough on a teenage girl! :rolleyes:


Roadhouse Rules!

I knew I like you for a reason, Belinda...

Oh Dan, there are so many more reasons . . . :D

David Cramer
03-18-2011, 12:48 PM
In the end, it's to each his or her own, but......

I had a Facebook account, and then I got my life back. I ended up permanently deleting it (not deactivating it) and for me (maybe not you), it was the best thing I have done in quite some time.

For those of you who connect with family and friends, great. I see nothing wrong with that, especially if you keep it mainly to just that.

I played sports in high school and had a wide range of friends. Once I made the account, I suddenly had people friending me that I barely knew in high school. I am married and had at least 6 females send me photos in private messages and want to meet at a local bar/diner within the first 2 weeks! I wasn't proud, I was embarrassed.

Four went on and on about how much they liked me in high school but I was dating so and so then. Did I mentioned I was married? I received a few photos that made me just a little bit uncomfortable. Guy friends wanted to party at night. Did I mention I was married and had 2 kids? Some will say why friend them? Well, firstly I didn't want to hurt their feelings because I don't have tons of extra time, and secondly, I didn't know what the outcome would be. Hindsight is 20/20:).

Facebook has broken up a lot of marriages and although it boils down to personal choice and decision making, some people just shouldn't be on there, period. Hooking up with old flames, that is huge on facebook and then what, divorce? It happens A LOT!

Now I just check my email and if I know the person, they will call because they have my number.

It became a headache and as my son says, "it's a time sucker" and he was right.

Honestly, technology is great, but I think it's gone too far the other way in some respects.

"Perhaps it is because the older generation has been to preoccupied to actually listen to them." Sorry Eric, that is hogwash at best, in my opinion. The kids are making this choice because it exists. All of my family, friends, and neighbors all listen and talk to their kids, but many kids would "rather" be on facebook to see who responded to their photo or funny one-liner. Sad, but true for many.

My take anyways.

David

Dave Anderson NH
03-18-2011, 1:28 PM
While this thread has remained pretty nice in tone for the most part, please keep it that way. I have noticed several of what I would call misunderstandings. In threads with sensitive topics like this it is VERY important to read every word in a person's post VERy carefully to get the true meaning of what they are saying. I actually think that so far there is far less disagreement than there is agreement. As for an apolgy Rick, none is needed. You've been around for a long time and know how threads often take on a life of their own. To me personally, this thread has been interesting to see the different perspectives and I have thoroughly enjoyed it.

Glenn Clabo
03-18-2011, 2:57 PM
I find these kind of threads interesting because all I hear is my mother..."It's not what you say...it's how you say it!" In many cases these days...it's pretty much what you type...not what you say.
I have VERY few relatives and even fewer friends on FB. My primary purpose is to keep in touch with my kid...wherever he's at. He uses FB...hates to email...hates Skype...and the phone because where he is...and goes it's just easier to post what's happing to him...and knows that makes Dad happy. I think about how cool it would have been if we old guys had this tool when we were in the service away from family. All through the time he was in Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan...and now Italy...I got to see what he was doing...and vice versa.
I have also been told MANY times that posting pictures and telling our relatives what we are doing is greatly appreciated.....especially the older ones btw...so we also do it for that reason. If my "friends" don't like it...I won't hate them for unfriending me...
I use my IPhone for most of my online use...gps...music now... because I'm hardly ever in front of a computer anymore. My wife and I text more than call because she's crazy busy and trying to take or make a call just doesn't fit her professional life.
The bottom line...to keep in the woodworking world...I NEVER cared when people thought using a "Crapsman" TS to build all that furniture and refurb 4 houses was unbelievable. SO I REALLY don't care if people THINK I'm wasting time... because it's mine to waste. AND I REALLY don't care if people make fun of an old guy who uses FB...because I have a REAL useful reason to do it.

David Cramer
03-18-2011, 3:12 PM
While this thread has remained pretty nice in tone for the most part, please keep it that way. I have noticed several of what I would call misunderstandings. In threads with sensitive topics like this it is VERY important to read every word in a person's post VERy carefully to get the true meaning of what they are saying. I actually think that so far there is far less disagreement than there is agreement. As for an apolgy Rick, none is needed. You've been around for a long time and know how threads often take on a life of their own. To me personally, this thread has been interesting to see the different perspectives and I have thoroughly enjoyed it.


If my post was out of line, I apologize as it was not meant to be that way. My hogwash comment was semi-made in jest, but I still just don't happen to agree with Eric's comment about the older generation not listening. Just my opinion and it doesn't make me right or him wrong. Hogwash is just a funny term that my grandfather used a lot and that I use now in my 40's:). Please delete my entire post if it was what prompted you to make yours Dave A. My opinion is not universal and hopefully my tone was taken in the spirit intended. Cheers.

David

Jim Becker
03-18-2011, 4:04 PM
I have also been told MANY times that posting pictures and {...} is greatly appreciated.....especially the older ones btw

I for one, really have been enjoying your extraordinary photography. Unfortunately, I think I also resemble that last part, too. "LOL"

Dave Anderson NH
03-18-2011, 4:30 PM
No harm, no foul David. I was just making what is called a preemptive strike since several folks were getting on the edge of being"testy". I will never prevent anyone from offering their opinion be it agreement or disagreement as long as it is done in a gentlemanly or ladylike manner.

Belinda Williamson
03-18-2011, 5:21 PM
I will never prevent anyone from offering their opinion be it agreement or disagreement as long as it is done in a gentlemanly or ladylike manner.

Gee, Dave, you had to go and take all the fun out of it . . . guess there won't be any more Roadhouse quotes.;):D

Eric DeSilva
03-18-2011, 6:50 PM
I can accept that you had a bad experience on FB. Sure, I've had spam friend requests, but the suggestions pale in comparison to the suggestions I've gotten in spam emails, and those haven't caused me to abandon email. My experience has been overwhelmingly positive--I've used it to reconnect with a number of acquaintances that have been lost through the years. Is it the equivalent of a "true" friendship? No, but I do get a kick out of seeing their kids, and hearing what they are up too. It isn't a deep relationship, but it is a relationship that I wouldn't have but for something like FB. Are there annoying people on FB? Sure. I can un-friend them, and if that seems socially awkward, I can also hit "X" and it just won't ever show me anything they post. (As far as awkward goes, if the person isn't my friend, I've gotta ask why I really care). I've also hit "X" and now FB doesn't show me any traffic generated by games like Farmville or Mobster-whatever. It is no different than email--you have control over not only who you communicate with, but also filtering capabilities with respect to the communications that occur.

I hate to say this, but the idea of FB being a "time suck"--or having to "reclaim your life" from FB--is sort of a strange argument to make. That is really totally within your control. People can be addicted to lots of things--drugs, woodworking, FB, movies, hoarding cats, whatever. But you don't blame the cats, it's the person who has the problem.

And the argument about FB causing divorces? That is--in the same spirit as your email--hogwash. People who aren't dedicated to their marriages and who are going to get a divorce are going to get a divorce whether or not FB existed. Sure, you might say FB, by rekindling old relationships, has the threat of rekindling old flames. But as you yourself pointed out, what stopped you wasn't the fact that you shut off FB, it was the fact that you sound like a decent guy in a happy marriage for whom marriage means something. Telephones contribute to rekindling old relationships--do we condemn those?

As far as the last comment, I'm not sure what you mean. The kids are making "this choice"--what choice? The choice to be on FB? Sure, yes, I'm sure that kids would probably rather communicate with their friends than talk with adults. But that wasn't what I was talking about. It is a great thing if you are really *hearing* your kids--listening to them and understanding them, and I'm not saying that everyone ignores their kids. But, I'm postulating that the kids that engage in the whole "look at me" kind of behavior and act out (and I'm guessing most psychiatrists would probably agree) seek that kind of attention because they aren't getting it from where they should be getting it.

In the end, what I find most puzzling is that people want to blame the FB (or substitute any other technology) when that is simply a neutral facilitator of communications. Yes, it can be misused. So can the telephone. So can mail. So can a billion other things. Why is it OK to blame FB for causing divorces, but not the annual insurance convention in Cedar Rapids? Why is it OK to condemn FB as being a time suck, but not, say, your lathe?

Eric DeSilva
03-18-2011, 7:20 PM
Sorry, when you said generation, I thought you were going the old v. young route.

I spent some time thinking about what you have said. You state that some are motivated "to show others how important or special their lives are." Because you are stating that in a pejorative way, I'm assuming you are saying FB for them is a mechanism to brag. But think about how that applies to SMC--and in particular, the "gloat" threads. My sense is that we all believe there is more here, and those gloats are a friendly way of sharing--and the requisite "you sucks" that come after. But to an outsider, is that any different? We'd say there is a lot of other communication going on at SMC, but even so, I'm not even sure I feel like it has to be counterbalanced or justified. So I ask myself "how is that different from what they do?" If someone came on to SMC and all they contributed was a series of gloats, post after post, you think people might stop reading their posts? Why wouldn't the same happen on FB? If someone does nothing but brag, wouldn't the rational person un-friend them?

And, as far as trading off privacy, it all goes to the value you ascribe to it. I don't think the younger generation is doing this casually or accidentally. I believe privacy simply means less to them--and I've talked to some about it. They truly seem to believe that they have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. I ask "but don't you think an employer might find that picture of you doing [whatever] objectionable?" and the response I get is "if that is really meaningful to them, they don't sound like someone I'd like to work for anyway." I think they know what they are doing and choose to do it with eyes wide open. I certainly don't personally agree, but I'm not sure I can condemn the philosophy they bring to it.

Rich Engelhardt
03-20-2011, 9:15 AM
My Uncle Bob is on FB.
I just found out last night he's on there.

I wish I'd known a few weeks ago so I could have sent him and my Aunt Virgina FB wishes for a happy - 76 year annisiversay!
He's 96 and my Aunt Virg is 94.

LOL! Couple of young kids in love eh?