CA glue for segmented blanks?

[dirk martin]

Seems like when I read articles on making segmented blanks, most are using Titebond glue.....they hold a couple of pieces for a few seconds, set them aside, and do it over and over and over.

I would think that CA glue would be better....but then I've never created a segmented blank.

Anyone?

[dirk martin]

Maybe some other fast acting glue, other than CA?

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Dick, in general CA tends to be too brittle for segmented work. By far, Titebond is the most commonly used.

[dirk martin]

Just seems like something that would set up faster, would be better.
Yes, I understand that CA is too brittle...so indeed that won't work.
There must be some other glue, that sets up quick, and isn't brittle.....hmmmmm

[John Keeton]

Dirk, I don't do segmented work, but I have done a bunch of glue ups in flat work. Clamp and assembly time is critical, and one needs a glue that will not set quick in order to get everything coated with glue, aligned and clamped. I suspect it is the same for segmentation. In fact, I have used hide glue a lot for furniture as it has a longer working time. It also withstands creep better - all wood will move, and one needs the glue to accomodate that movement. Brittle glues do not do well for that.

Glues like epoxy are usually too thick and leave a noticeable glue line, and that is a consideration, too.

Titebond is a very good glue, with a reasonable working time, and when done right, the glue lines are hardly visible.

[Bill Bulloch]

I use Titebond Original on most of my segmented pieces and believe me, sometimes it sets up toooooo fast.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have did a few and like Bill said sometimes Titebond can be to fast. You need to have time to get everything aligned and clamped.

[Ralph Lindberg]

Dick
You might try Titebond Molding and Trim glue, it has a shorter tack time and a quicker set.

But I've used mostly regular Titebond (per Malcolm's suggestion)

[Jon Lanier]

I don't do segmented bowls and such. But I do some segmented pens and I use CA but... there is room for error in pens and being so small (the project) that CA in not effected for being 'brittle.' I would thing large segmented bowls and such it would not be recommended.

[Lee Koepke]

For my one random, unplanned, just winging it (failure) of a partially segmented bowl I tried CA glue because I thought the quick set up time was important.

After a giant mess and a segmented semi-round piece with nothing on the same plane, I realized .... not the way to go. Not only was it 10x more difficult wearing gloves, it just flat didnt work. Next one I do will not only be planned and intentional, it will use TiteBond so I can get some semblance of the original intended shape.

[dirk martin]

I guess I'm confused as to where "all this time for alignment" is needed.
From what I'm reading, it seems most people grab two segments, rub some glue on both faces, hold them together, and wait for set up.
Then they set those two pieces on a flat surface, grab two more, and do it again.
By the time they have all of their single segments, joined into doubles, they do it again, until they get half a ring.

I understand a need for time, if you're gluing up a whole ring at once, but it seems most are just joining two pieces at a time.

[Quinn McCarthy]

Listen to what Malcolm said. He has allot of years experiance behind that answer.

I have a bottle of TB and one of TB II and use whichever bottle is closer. Both are great glues especially for segmented turning.

Hope that helps.

Quinn

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

I guess I'm confused as to where "all this time for alignment" is needed.
From what I'm reading, it seems most people grab two segments, rub some glue on both faces, hold them together, and wait for set up.
Then they set those two pieces on a flat surface, grab two more, and do it again.
By the time they have all of their single segments, joined into doubles, they do it again, until they get half a ring.

I understand a need for time, if you're gluing up a whole ring at once, but it seems most are just joining two pieces at a time.

Dirk, your assumption that most segmenters use "rub joints" for building rings is off the mark. The prevailing preferred method is to glue up full rings with two spacers separating the two halves. Such a glue job requires a few minutes of time.

[Robert McGowen]

No one has mentioned some of the reasons not having to do with the actual holding power of the glue:

Cost - I get a gallon of Titebond for about $16. How much is a gallon of CA?

Fingers - I scrape the Titebond right off. Try doing that with CA all over your hands.

Fumes - I think you would need a respirator trying to glue rings together with that much CA, not to mention your eyes.

Any others? :)

[dirk martin]

ahhhh, ok, now I see. Yes, that would take a little time to glue up.
So, is the typical dril to do the following?

Do "rub joint" gluing on 1/2 ring, set aside. Do the same on another 1/2 ring. Grab your spacers, put them in place, then use a band clamp on the whole ring. Set aside for 24 hrs.

Next day, remove spacers, square off remaining 4 edges, then glue and band clamp the final two halfs together.

[dirk martin]

Mr. Tibbets....I was spending a little time on your website.
Do you prefer to use 5 minute epoxy to glue the two halfs together, rather than Titebond?

[Robert McGowen]

Do "rub joint" gluing on 1/2 ring, set aside. Do the same on another 1/2 ring. Grab your spacers, put them in place, then use a band clamp on the whole ring. Set aside for 24 hrs.

Next day, remove spacers, square off remaining 4 edges, then glue and band clamp the final two halfs together.

You don't "rub joint" the segments at all. You want them to be able to slide against each other. Put glue on segment ends, put 2 dowel spacers opposite of each other, and clamp the entire ring together. The segments will slide together into two half-circles. I wait about 30 minutes, square off the edges if needed, add glue and clamp to form a whole circle. Another 30 minutes and I start stacking rings together.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Mr. Tibbets....I was spending a little time on your website.
Do you prefer to use 5 minute epoxy to glue the two halfs together, rather than Titebond?

Dirk, I rarely use epoxy in my work. Robert's description of how rings are assembled is pretty standard. All three types of Titebond are very good, but I pretty much use the Original unless the item is going to be washed (salad bowls, etc) - then it's Titebond III.

[dirk martin]

You lost me on the "two dowel spacers opposite of each other"......

[dirk martin]

Can someone explain to me what Rober it saying? I don't understand this "2 dowel spacers" thingy.....

[Paul Singer]

Also for those that want a longer time before tack sets in try Titebond III. It has a longer open time than Titebond II or the original. A little more expensive because but I use it because of the longer open time plus it is water resistant. It may state that it is water proof but I don't have a bottle around at the moment to check.

[Bob Hamilton]

Dirk, any tiny error in angle when cutting the segments means that the last joint won't close tightly. It will either be tight at the outside of the ring and open on the inside or the other way around. The way to get around that is to leave two joints in the ring unglued during the initial glue-up, on opposite sides so the result will be two half rings. Since you have no way of knowing in advance exactly how much shim you will need in the unglued joint to account for the heel or toe gap that will be there you can put a piece of round dowel or rod in the two unglued joints to allow them to find their own equilibrium when the clamp force is applied. The dowel is standing on end so the segments on either side can rock on its diameter. After the glue is set up the two half rings can be trimmed to mate snugly and the last two joints glued.

Take care
Bob

[Keith E Byrd]

What? No pics?
I have never tried segmenting but want to and I am with Dick - I got lost!

[Bill Bulloch]

I just happen to have one handy. Here is a visual of what Bob is telling you.


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