Bandsaw Purchase...maybe tomorrow [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

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Andy Haney

03-14-2011, 9:24 PM

I searched, but didn't find any threads on this subject. Please let me know if I missed any.

I’m strongly considering my first bandsaw purchase this week. I’ve been looking at the Rikon 10-325 for a few years, but recently discovered the Jet Deluxe Pro JWBS-14DXPRO.

In comparing specs I see few differences:

...The table on the Rikon is larger, but I don’t think that will be significant.
...The Rikon includes a fence and the Jet doesn’t. Easily remedied, several ways.
...The Rikon is 1.5 hp vs. 1.25 hp for the Jet.
...The Jet includes Carter-style guides, and that would have to be purchased separately for the Rikon.

With exception of the hp and the table size, after-market covers the difference. How much better (REALLY) are Carter-style guides?

Owner/user ratings appear to be pretty high for each machine. Based on reading reviews I’m inclined to believe the smaller (hp) motor on the Jet would perform acceptably for resawing, as long as one exercises restraint and lets the tool do the work.

The Jet goes on sale tomorrow (I think) at 15% off, and that is really attractive to me. That makes the cost difference between the machines about $305 with the Rikon being higher.

...Jet standard package approximately $765 (plus tax);
...Rikon (plus Carter guides) approximately $1,070 (plus tax).

Please offer any opinions. Thanks in advance.

Andy

Andy Haney

03-15-2011, 6:53 AM

First, just to bump this up in hopes of some response. Does anyone out there own either the Rikon 10-325 or the Jet Deluxe Pro JWBS-14DXPRO? I would appreciate any feedback, either positive or negative.

Thanks,
Andy

Greg Bender

03-15-2011, 7:05 AM

Andy,
I had the Rikon and it is a good saw.The resaw ability is 13.5" and the jet is probably 12".The rikon also has a steel welded box frame which is stronger than the cast iron frame when it comes to maintaining blade tension.The rikon also has bearing based blade guides so going to the overpriced carter guides isn't really necessary.The table size did turn out to be an important consideration when cutting certain projects.Good Luck with your choice.
Greg

First, just to bump this up in hopes of some response. Does anyone out there own either the Rikon 10-325 or the Jet Deluxe Pro JWBS-14DXPRO? I would appreciate any feedback, either positive or negative.

Thanks,
Andy

Shawn Pixley

03-15-2011, 9:45 AM

I have the Rikon and would buy it again. As to the guides, I like the bearing style gudes. For my primary uses of resawing and relatively large curves, they perform well. If i were to need frequent use of a 1/4" or 1/8" blade, I might go for the Carter blocks. My Rikon was on sale and didn't cost me as much as you calculated.

Dale Coons

03-15-2011, 9:48 AM

+1 on the Rikon, mine's been great over the past 2 yrs. Make sure you get the 10-325 not the 320

Mike Tekin

03-15-2011, 10:46 AM

I will take a different spin and play devil's advocate - the Rikon is a nice saw, however, where will Rikon be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, from now? They are a newer company and in this economy, things can happen. When I purchase power tools I always go with the bigger names - Grizzly, Shop Fox, Delta, Jet/Powermatic, etc. They have proven track records and support.

Next, I would like to reccomend another saw to you - the Powermatic PWBS-14CS, 14" BS. Its also on sale for $849, but includes the nice Carter style guides, a 1.5hp motor, a dust blower, miter gauge, and fence, halogen built in lamp, quick release handle for the blade tension. The jet doesn't include a fence or miter gauge.

You would be looking to spend at least $80-150 for a nice fence for the jet.

Also, I noticed that the Jet and Rikon have a rack and pinion fence post adjustment, but the Powermatic doesn't. Its definately a competitive playing field in 14" bandsaws these days!

Good luck

Paul Johnstone

03-15-2011, 12:28 PM

I am a huge fan of Rikon, but after looking over the Jet, it looks pretty good.
I have the Rikon 18".. it did come with a fence, but in all honesty the fence is not the greatest. I ended up replacing it with a Kreg fence.
So.. I think you would be very happy with the Rikon.. However it looks like the Jet machine is pretty nice.. an amazon review said it had cast wheels. The guides look nice as well. The Jet seems to consistently get good reviews. I guess if it was me, I would probably save 300 and get the Jet.

Brian Weick

03-15-2011, 12:52 PM

My opinion....
Have you considered buying OWWM....?
Those machines you mention Rikon/Jet- they are made overseas.....http://fototime.com/F77F840AEB73CF3/orig.gif I am giving you my personal opinion about this...not saying those machines are bad but lets face it, as far as construction and materials being used,they don't even come close to American made Woodworking Machinery form the past. I find it rather intesting that service & support is so crucial....why is it that way- don't get me wrong I think it is important, especially when it brand spanking new. Some companies do have a good service record and than you have some that ,,,,,well- http://www.vapersforum.com/images/smilies/more/hurryup.gif . are severely lacking

IMO- that fear of not having service is because machines are not being made the way they used to be..and we know it...so as consumers , knowing this, you don't want a bumper warranty and being left out in the cold. But there was a time when Service was not as strongly considered because of the quality of the machinery being produced.

I have a client that I was doing a master bath project for that had his own WW equipment in his shop in the basement and we got to talking and he was telling me about some problems that he was having with his TS and his BS. So I told him I will check it out for him. The equipment in question was a Craftsman 14 BS and a Craftsman 10" TS. He kept telling me that he has had to get new blades constantly for his BS and the miter on the TS was constantly running out from where it should lock in place and the cuts bind. These tools where purchased back in 1985 NEW.

I went over turned the band saw on (1/4" blade) and put some lumber at her and right away I knew something was drastically wrong.... the blade was running in the opposite direction............it has been running this way form day 1 he said. Now he is just a hobbyist with WWing and I didn't want to make him feel bad... if you don't know about the machinery you have sometimes you should get acquainted with it,,, that's all I will say about that..
So anyways
I go under where the motor is and there is a sticker that says - "this item may have been shipped running counter clockwise, switch terminal L1 & L2"- So I took care of that, readjusted the upper and lower blade rest bearings- they were on the blade constantly..... adjusted the upper wheel to get the blade to track in the middle again, turned it on and he was one happy camper... he was blown away as to why they would ship a BS running backward,as well as myself...:rolleyes:

The table saw.... the trunnion (if you want to call it that) was out of alignment with the table- I got that square,,, then I got to the miter adjustment ran it to 42 and back - and what was happening was the cabinet wall (thin sheet metal) was used for the mount stop sleeve for the miter and was flexing - So I took some 1/4" steel plate to run vertically on the outside of the cab , milled the whole for the lead screw bolted this on , re-assembled and there was no more movement... dead nuts stop at any angle. It also never made it to a true 45.. the pulley on the saw arbor was assembled ,from day one ,on the outside of the arbor and when you cranked it up to get a 45 the pulley was butting up against the bottom of the main field table. So I backed off the set screw and moved it back where it should have been and sure enough - went to the 45. lubed all the mechanical parts and works like a charm now.

This is the problem with some of the machinery being produced today... it's sent overseas and designed to be built with the "Do more with less" philosophy which will show it's ugly head as time goes by. So I am not a fan of the foreign made machinery because of this mindset that companies have been forced to adopt to keep themselves competitive with all the crap coming from overseas...

Don't get me wrong... you still can get American made machinery;ie- "Northfield" - but who has $12.400.00 for a new table saw.... but what a table saw that is...the trunnion alone weighs more than todays 10" saws you find at your local distributor.

That is why I say it would not be a bad idea to look into the older used cast iron machinery when quality actually meant somthing.....and you will get a better bang for your buck...

The WW machinery I admire & own is American made and I have 1 piece in particular in my shop from 1909 - you just simply can not harm this machine ... solid cast iron- http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/thumbup.gif

What your intension's are for the usage of the Band Saw ?

Here is a prime example of OWWM. This is an "Oliver" 192-Heavy 18" band saw from 1959. It was totally striped and restored. They are considered the "Cadillac" of WW machinery... and I have to go along with that... the proof is in the pudding as they say....

So - You have to do what you feel comfortable with and only you would know that but I just wanted you to be aware that there are other options for quality machinery at a fraction of the cost new in todays market for the same with all construction & material being equal...

B.

glenn bradley

03-15-2011, 1:00 PM

Rikon is a nice saw, however, where will Rikon be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, from now? They are a newer company and in this economy, things can happen. When I purchase power tools I always go with the bigger names - Grizzly, Shop Fox, Delta, Jet/Powermatic, etc. They have proven track records and support.

A sad state of affairs to be sure but, don't kid yourself. Have you noticed the size, age and quality of some of the companys that have fallen off the face of the earth over th last few years. The younger more nimble outfits make have something yet to prove ;-)

Doug Colombo

03-15-2011, 1:26 PM

+2 for the Rikon. I have the 10-325 (about 6 months) and love the saw. I also agree that that you don't need to purchase the Carter guides for the saw. The bearing guides that come with it work very well when adjusted correctly. I don't have any experence with the Jet, but the steel frame of the Rikon was a big plus for me - it is much more stable then the cast iron frames. Good luck and have fun with your purchase.

Brian Weick

03-15-2011, 1:37 PM

Doug Colombo

03-15-2011, 2:00 PM

Steel frames hold the tension of the blade better than cast iron frames (especially under heavy resaw operations). As I said, I don't have experience with the Jet that he is looking at (I have other Jet equipment and have had great experience with the brand), but even Jet when talking about this saw and what improvements they have made seems to think that some cast iron saws needed to be made stronger: From Amazon description of the Jet saw "Cast Iron Frame for Powerful Performance With its massive, super-tough cast iron frame, and a blade speed of 1500/3000 SFPM, the JWBS-14DXPRO packs a powerful punch to cut through material quickly and easily. The rigidity of this newly redesigned frame also allows for even the toughest resawing jobs and saves you the hassle of using a riser block."
So before I bought the Rikon, I tried to gather data and user opinions and, at least in my case, felt that the steel framed saws were the way to go. This is not to say that a cast iron framed saw is bad. I think that either way Andy goes, he will have a great piece of equipment. This was just one point that I know moved me towards the Rikon.

Brian Weick

03-15-2011, 2:11 PM

Doug,
Just so I understand you corectly...when you say "Cast Iron Frame" are you refering to something like this.......http://fototime.com/99CB340AC2B6105/orig.gif

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/asset.php?fid=150142&uid=5984&d=1273244853

B,

Andy Haney

03-15-2011, 5:28 PM

Joe Pack

03-15-2011, 7:18 PM

Hi Andy,

I just received the newest copy of Wood Magazine today. They have an evaluation/comparison of a number of machines, some of which you mentioned here. I will summarize as best I can for you.

They tested the Delta 28-206 ($825), Grizzly G0457 ($895), Grizzly G0555X ($770), Jet JWBS-14DXPro ($1,000), Laguna 14SUV ($1,495), Powermatic PWBS-14CS ($1,000) and Rikon 10-325 ($900).

They gave "Top Tool" designations to the Laguna 14SUV ($1,495) and to the Rikon 10-325 ($900). They gave "Best Value" designation to the Grizzly G0555X ($770 including riser block kit). The Delta was the lowest rated saw in their test group.

If you can find the newest issue of Wood (May 2011) you can read more details.

Now let me offer a personal opinion...take a good, long look at the Grizzly G0513P ($889 delivered) and the Grizzly G0513X2 ($1089 delivered). I have the G0513 and absolutely love it. It has all the power I will ever need for my purposes, requires no riser kit, has outstanding dust collection, easily adjustable quality roller guides...everything I could ever want in my home workshop. I looked at all the 14" saws you are considering, and then some. I chose the Grizzly after being able to see it first hand at one of their factories. There was just no comparison...except for the Laguna, no other 14" saw came close. For just over half the price of the 14" Laguna, and for the same or lower price than the others you mentioned, you can have a full-powered 17" saw that, hopefully (remember, I have one!) last your lifetime.

Hope this helps.

Joe

p.s. If you can get hold of a Woodworker's Journal 10% off coupon from a subscriber, you can save a bunch on a Grizzly saw.

Andrew Kertesz

03-15-2011, 7:34 PM

Look at the recent issue of Wood magazine. They did a review of bandsaws, the Laguna 14" SUV and the Rikon 10-325 were the top picks with the Rikon being the best value. The Laguna is a great machine, but it is $1500.00, only comes in 220v and is all one piece. Something to consider depending on the location of your shop. I'm waiting to see if the Rikon is going on sale anytime soon.

Brian Weick

03-16-2011, 9:44 AM

I really appreciate it. I wish I had room for large equipment and old iron. But...my wife thinks she needs to park in my shop! Everything has to fit in a nook somewhere. Gotta get rid of the mini-fridge to make room for this purchase.

I had not looked far enough into the sale, and didn't realize the Powermatic was also on sale, very competitive is the least we can say. I am very familiar with the reputation of the PM saw, and believe I can get a great starter saw from this selection for a favorable price. Now, if I can just sneak the checkbook out of her purse...

I did note that the PM only has one speed (approx. 3k fpm). A lot of the others have a slower speed available (1,500 fpm). Are there situations when the slower speed is something to wish for?

Andy

Andy,

I understand, As far as something that big- http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/blink.gif no. I wasn't referring to the example I put up here- that is a 32" . I was using that as an example for Doug on the Cast Iron vs Steel plate question. I can see that you are limited by space- I can relate to you on shop size, my shop isn't that big but I have managed to really make the best out of the space I have to work with. When I first got involved with woodworking 26 years ago all I knew, as far as machinery, was what Grossman's , Home depot ,Sears and my local contractor distributor -Philups brothers had what they had to offer.

6 years ago I was renovating my bathroom and I had 4 fluted columns that I needed to be made out of maple so I asked my friend John who he knew that could do this. He gave me a turners phone# so I called him, told me to come over and discuss what I would like. When I got to his shop he asked me to come into his shop and when I took my first step in the door my jaw dropped. I had to ask him what brands his machinery was and where he purchased them, named I never heard of before, Tannewitz,Yates, Northfield,Oliver, Crescent, CO Porter & Fay & Egan. I had the privilege of using his Tannewitz 36" band saw and It was then that fell in love with OWWM.

There was only 1 problem... I didn't have 3ph power in my shop and I had a lot to learn about moving up into this category of machinery....a lot. Anyways to make a long story short I am a big proponent of buying American made machinery and when they made machinery back in the day - they made it with quality in mind and did not cut corners on material,durability,accuracy and most of all quality.

I was just putting in my 2 cents on your hunt for your band saw because what you get for $1500 new today will go a long way with American Machinery from the past. That Oliver 192 would bump you up into another category and size as far as machines go. That Oliver 192 (EX:pictured up on this thread) is single ph and would not be that much larger as far as footprint than the 14" you are looking at and give you the ability to cut larger material than a 14" along with a larger band saw blade sizes. It's not for everyone, but I will tell you this once you have a taste of the older more robust American made machinery you will understand why I feel the way I do about this... hey - you have to get what you feel comfortable with and I can relate to that. No matter what you get- just don't have any regrets and make sure it will suit your needs...http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gif

As far as your slow speed question- the slower speed setting is used when cutting metals...

I wish you the best in your decision in getting a band saw for yourself , just look at all your options before you take the plung....http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gif

Wish you the best Andy http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/thumbup.gif

B,

Brian Weick

03-16-2011, 9:56 AM

Good morning Doug,

I recieved your e-mail but I see no red-X where the Moak 32" BS picture is.... if you want to see more pictures on my 32 Doug I put this up a few days ago - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?161911-MOAK-32-quot-quot-Special-quot-Band-saw

I still think CI is the way to go.....http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/thumbup.gifhttp://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif

B,http://www.contractortalk.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gif

David Gandy

03-16-2011, 3:57 PM

Here is my 750.00 OWWM 1970 Bandsaw.....20" and 900 lbs

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/rodeking2/100_0558.jpg

This to me is much better than a new 14" saw. Runs beautifully...all sheet steel and the table is huge. I presently own 17 OWWM's and love them all.

David G

David Gandy

03-16-2011, 4:03 PM

Here is my $750.00 bandsaw I bought from CL. This thing is a behemoth weighing in at about 900lbs and saws like a dream. Much better to me than a new 14" saw. Has 2hp motor and uses a 12'7" blade up to 1" wide.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/rodeking2/100_0558.jpg

All totaled, I own 17 OWWM's and love them all. I just finished my PM120 12 Planer made in the sixties to replace my lunchbox screaming DeWalt.

Anyway, My 2 cents
Doer

Doug Colombo

03-16-2011, 6:10 PM

[QUOTE=Brian Weick;1661668]Good morning Doug, I recieved your e-mail but I see no red-X where the Moak 32" BS picture is.... if you want to see more pictures on my 32 Doug I put this up a few days ago - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?161911-MOAK-32-quot-quot-Special-quot-Band-saw (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?161911-MOAK-32-quot-quot-Special-quot-Band-saw)

OK I just saw your pics on the link - now THAT has to be a huge saw to handle that wheel. I would have to guess that it being cast iron would not affect it's performance, in fact, you most likely need the weight to mount that wheel to !!! :eek: If the OP is looking at that size saw, go for cast iron :D My Rikon sure can't compete with that.

Brian Weick

03-16-2011, 9:53 PM

http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-party-smileys-808.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)..........glad to see there is another OWWM 'er here......cheers http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-party-smileys-808.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html) nice band saw!!!! .

B,

Andy Haney

03-19-2011, 6:38 PM

Thought I should follow up. I just returned from Woodcraft, where I purchased the new toy. I know, no pix... It isn't the OWWM, but it is the same brand as that green monster. I decided on the Powermatic 14". Didn't bring it home today because the trip is almost 50 mi. and it is raining a bunch. I'll probably pick it up tomorrow if the weather cooperates.

Thanks to all of you for the input.

Andy

Dave Aronson

03-25-2011, 10:23 PM

Ken Fitzgerald

03-25-2011, 10:30 PM

Congrats on the new PM Andy! May it serve you well.

Van Huskey

03-25-2011, 10:58 PM

Congrats, now it is time for blades. You may want to read this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!&highlight=bandsaw+blade

Van Huskey

03-25-2011, 11:01 PM

Salvatore Buscemi

03-26-2011, 8:49 AM

OK, I'm looking to buy my first bandsaw (hopefully last) very soon. My wife has given me the thumbs up to spend $900 or less on one. I don't see prices like you guys are mentioning. Where are these awesome prices? Maybe I need to just chill and wait for them to go on sale. I hate waiting.
He's got to be talking about new, used stuff is always on *sale*. I have gotten my last 4 band saws for around 900 total, and that includes an Atlas 912 ("12) Delta 14", Oliver 192 (18") and an old C-frame 20". I'll be going a little higher on the next one. A 32" Silver for 450.

Sal, who loves some band saws!

JohnT Fitzgerald

03-26-2011, 9:01 AM

I saw that same review, and to be honest although I might agree with their end results, I don't like how they treated the Jet. They don't value enough (IMO) the 5 year warranty over the 1 year from Grizzly, and although the Jet has a 1.25 HP it cuts at least as well as - if not better than - other 1.5HP models. It comes with good guides and urethane tires, so that's an upgrade you don't need. They dinged it for the tension lever being 'too stiff' - but then mention the Grizzly was stiffer than the others. On the fence - they rightfully point out it does not come with a fence, so they 'priced' it including the Jet fence (another $100) - but then ding the saw on the fence. If they are going to price it with an additional fence, at least pick a better one - maybe the Kreg or another one. All in all, maybe the ratings were overall correct, but I find the review a little lacking. I'm sure some of the other models had +/- as well that were not accounted for.

Dave Aronson

03-26-2011, 2:26 PM

Yeah I got the impression that the prices people were talking about earlier were for new stuff. I'm going to splurge and buy something new for once.

Van Huskey

03-26-2011, 2:32 PM

Yeah I got the impression that the prices people were talking about earlier were for new stuff. I'm going to splurge and buy something new for once.

Which machine are you interested in good prices on, chances are someone here knows the best places to buy.

Dave Aronson

03-26-2011, 3:02 PM

Van Huskey

03-26-2011, 8:31 PM

I'm looking at the Rikon and the Powermatic 14" saw with riser block. Can't decide between them, they both look real nice.

My local Woodcraft has them for:
Rikon 10-325 : $899 + tax, Amazon:$909 no tax or shipping
Powermatic PWBS-14CS with riser block: $999 + tax, Amazon $999 no tax or shipping

The PM was just on sale for 15% off and almost all internet outlets give you free liftgate shipping on Jet and PM products, PM puts their machines on sale multiple times a year, if you wait and watch you can get it for $850 to your door. Woodcraft puts the 10-325 on sale about 3 times a year at 699 and the 18" saw on sale for 999. Again you just have to wait and watch it "feels" like WC is due to put one of them on sale in the next month or so. If I had $900 to spend I would diligently watch Craigslist for either a Delta 28-350 or a PM 81 (both 20" saws) while I waited for what I wanted new to come on sale. I picked up a Delta 28-350 in very good condition a couple of months ago for $475 and with a full Carter guide conversion kit I am under $700 and wouldn't trade it for anything you can buy new for under about $2,000.

Under 1,000 new my picks would be the Rikon and PM you mention along with the Grizzly 17" 513 series and the Rikon 18" when it is on sale.

Dave Aronson

03-26-2011, 9:36 PM

The PM was just on sale for 15% off and almost all internet outlets give you free liftgate shipping on Jet and PM products, PM puts their machines on sale multiple times a year, if you wait and watch you can get it for $850 to your door. Woodcraft puts the 10-325 on sale about 3 times a year at 699 and the 18" saw on sale for 999. Again you just have to wait and watch it "feels" like WC is due to put one of them on sale in the next month or so. If I had $900 to spend I would diligently watch Craigslist for either a Delta 28-350 or a PM 81 (both 20" saws) while I waited for what I wanted new to come on sale. I picked up a Delta 28-350 in very good condition a couple of months ago for $475 and with a full Carter guide conversion kit I am under $700 and wouldn't trade it for anything you can buy new for under about $2,000.

Under 1,000 new my picks would be the Rikon and PM you mention along with the Grizzly 17" 513 series and the Rikon 18" when it is on sale.

thanks, I'll do my best to be patient. not my best quality.

Van Huskey

03-27-2011, 12:21 AM

thanks, I'll do my best to be patient. not my best quality.

Nor is it mine...

Guy Belleman

03-27-2011, 1:27 AM

For those prices, I would consider going bigger to the Grizzly 0513X or 2X, a 17" with more HP and capability. It is a good saw.

Bret Duffin

03-27-2011, 1:30 AM

+1 to Joe Pack's comment.

I also have the Grizzly G0513 and I love it. I didn't expect much. I bought it used for about $500. I think Joe forgot to mention the great fence it comes with or the quick release lever for the blade tension. I regularly re-saw hardwood up to 12" thick. Works good for precision work also. I used to have an older Grizzly 14" BS which wasn't much of a saw and I sold it.

I have considered upgrading to the cast iron trunnion... but why?

I have never used the Rikon or the Jet.

Bret

Guy Belleman

03-27-2011, 6:07 AM

For your price range you should include the Grizzly 0513X which will give your more capability and HP.