Help me choose - airless sprayer or compressor setup

[Andrew Whitson]

I'm at a point in my home improvement process where I either need to buy an airless sprayer or some type of HVLP setup to paint a boat load of case, base, 10+ six-panel doors, extension jambs, built-ins, etc. I simply don't have time or patience to paint them all by hand myself, and I don't have the money to hire the work out (quotes coming in over a grand, plus there's the scheduling/logistics issues). So I am looking to invest in a spray setup.

The paint I'm planning to use is Sherwin Williams ProClassic water based paint. It's slow going by hand, but I like the durability of the finish product - nice and hard, no blocking, good sheen, etc. I've heard it sprays well to boot. I am not married to this finish, and will consider other types of "enamels" for door/trim (prefer only water borne).

The biggest piece(s) are built-in cabinets, floor to ceiling 8' tall, 4' wide. I do not anticipate ever finishing a piece larger than this. In sq footage terms, I have many times more feet of trim, base, and doors to paint.

I would like to go with a compressor and some type of gun vs. an airless sytem (or turbine HVLP) mainly for the (perceived) flexibility. I would love to have a system that can apply fine finishes (stains, lacquers, etc) for furniture (cabinets and tables coming next year) and thicker finishes (paints) if possible. I need to buy a good compressor for home improvement and auto projects anyway.

That said, my painting projects are priority now, and I'm not interested in buying a flexible system that's marginal for spraying paint (or similar finishes). I need a system that will work and has some margin for a beginner. If that spells airless, so be it.

I would like to spend less than $600, but I can flex up to about $900 if needed. From my research, that will get me into the middle of the "good" airless sprayers bought new, or the higher end used equipment. I'm not sure if that will pay for a compressor and gun + accessories (tips, separators, filters, pressure pots?, etc). Spraying will take place outside or in a garage made into a spray room.

I hope this is enough info to steer me in the right direction. If not, I'll be glad to post more information or answer any questions. As I alluded to earlier, I'm not married to any paths yet (equipment or finish type), and welcome any and all advice.

Cheers and thanks,
Andrew

[Howard Acheson]

First thing you should do is buy a book titled Spray Finishing by Charron. Amazon will have it. It will tell you about the advantages/disadvantages of airless, and turbine and conversion HVLP systems. It will also tell you what you need to know to set up your equipment and how to get the best finish from you equipment. Spray painting success depends on know a number of things first and then practising on cardboard boxes and scrap before you attempt a real project. You don't just fill up the gun and pull the trigger.

One note, airless is fine for heavy latex interior wall and exterior paints. It's not so good for lighter weight interior waterborne acrylic enamels, lacquers and shellac.

You gun choices are dependent on the type of air source and you need to match your gun air requirements to your air source capabilities.

[Andrew Whitson]

Thanks for the advice, I ordered a copy of Spray Finishing. Equipment is an open book right now - matching the gum to the "pump" is understood. I've also got about a month of practice time if I can get the equipment ordered in the next couple of weeks; I understand the learning curve can be steep.

That said, is there anything in my post that perhaps strongly points to one path vs. the other? In other words, is it a pipe dream to expect good quality results out of a conversion system when using thicker latex paints? Is it going to take me 2 months to learn conversion spraying, but only a day to learn airless?

Thanks,
Andrew

[Jim Becker]

Airless will likely work very nicely with the ProClassic Acrylic...it's similar in consistency to other water borne/based paints...I just used a gallon of it for trim in a room I'm redoing in the house. (but I brushed it) I personally have had mixed resulted with my conversion guns spraying these heavier products, even changing to an appropriately sized projector set. (needle, etc.) But if your stated use is an initial thing and ultimately you intend to spray a variety of finishes for woodworking projects, rather than "house painting", a good conversion gun with multiple projector sets is going to be of greater value to you in the long run. Just remember you also need a capable compressor, too. I'd not recommend any compressor with less than about 30 gallons of air (I use a 60 gallon unit) and it also has to have the SCFM output that is equal to or in excess of your gun's requirements. You'll also need a moisture filter and for convenience, an extra pressure regulator so that you can keep your shop air system "up" and still supply your gun's input with the typically lower pressure that is indicated by the manufacturer as appropriate for your gun.

I'm not sure why you are concerned that there is a bigger learning curve with an HPLV conversion gun than with other spray systems including airless. There is a lot of technique required for all of them and practice is always a good idea if you are new to spraying.

[Jeff Monson]

Get an airless system for latex paints. Get a conversion gun or hvlp system for your woodworking needs (laquers, shellacs, etc.). Finding one tool to meet both needs is really tough, is for me anyways. I have a hvlp system for all my woodworking needs, when I want or need to spray paints, then I go rent a paint sprayer. I've tried with my hvlp but have never gotten good results.

[Phil Phelps]

First, you won’t find a “one for all purpose” spray gun. Next, consider the type of spraying you will do after the house project. An airless is not what you want for shop projects, although you can lay down a beautiful finish with a fine finish tip on an airless gun. And, I don’t think it is wise to use spray equipment inside your house. Understand that all spray equipment produces over spray. With HVLP spray equipment you have two choices; a conversion gun that operates with a conventional air compressor, or a turbine assembly. They both produce over spray and you’ll need exhaust equipment and a respirator. The cheapest way out is a siphon gun and compressor that produces a lot of over spray. But let us concentrate on your house project. Your two biggest hurdles are time and patience. You can’t buy patience. But if you try to spray paint built in cabinets, the mess you will create may force you to pay someone to help you find your patience. No one hates brush strokes on woodwork like I do. And water base paint produces the worst. You can do a pretty good job on base and crown adding Floetrol to the paint, but door jambs and doors just don’t look good painted with a brush. You could brush the trim and remove the doors and spray them. But you still have the problem with thinning the paint far beyond what the manufacturer recommends. You can do a much better job brushing oil base paint but you still have to thin it beyond requirements if you spray. And without an exhaust system, oil is out of the equation. For a garage wood worker, I think a HVLP with a turbine is your best bet. I still don’t think they are the best way to apply water base or oil paint. You will always have a problem spraying without exhaust equipment. Do yourself a favor and visit a professional that sells spray equipment and paint to professionals.

[Steve Schoene]

S-W Pro-Classic is an excellent acylic enamel. But, as people have pointed out its viscosity is designed for brushing, and voscosity that heavy is best done with airless sprayers. But that's about all the airless sprayers do well--full bodied paints.

But, what hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are other quality waterborne paints that are designed specifically to be sprayed. These have much lower viscosities and dry faster. You might consider sifting to such a product. Im sure S-W makes some as does ML Campbell to name a couple you might find semi-locally. (These will be at outlets catering to pro's not your standard S-W retail stores found everywhere.) Target and Enduro (General Finishes), among others also make such products. These would all be sprayed best with an HVLP sprayer, which will also spray many other finishes for furniture. In addition with a conversion gun you also get a good size compressor, which can be very handy around the shop.

Note: probably not necessary to say, but any paint brand can be mixed to (just about) any color.

[Andrew Whitson]

Thanks to everyone for the sage advice. After much researching and listening to those with more spraying knowledge, I've decided to make some compromises, and scratch any plans of using a conversion setup to tackle all of the painting work.

My plan right now is to purchase a Wagner conversion gun and accessories (compressor, filters, etc), and use it to lay down the primer (BIN is what I've been using). I'll also play around and see how it handles the SW ProClassic paint (I have about 3 gallons on-hand, so I'll stick with it). I have a lot of finishing (non-paint) related uses for an HVLP setup, and I need a larger compressor for home renovations, so the purchase won't be a waste of money. If (when) results are not spectacular, I will rent an airless for a week, and finish the paint projects outside; I already have respirators, mask, clothes, etc.

If the group could help me out just a bit more, I'd very much appreciate it. Some remaining questions:
Any strong sentiments against the Wagner conversion gun?
Does a pressure feed gun work pointing downward, or might I need a pressure pot?
I'm planning on a ball swivel, cleaning kit, wrench, and viscosity cup.
Can someone recommend a good water/oil separator/filter unit? Do I need the small gun mounted separator and a bigger unit?

Thanks a bunch,
Andrew

[Joe Chritz]

This will only answer a couple of the questions but I use a DeVillbis finishline gravity feed gun. I regularly use BIN and ProClassic. The BIN sprays very well, the pro-classic will spray thinned about 15% but it is slow. A larger needle would help some but it is still very slow compared to a clear finish.

I don't have any experience with the wagner unit but I am a big fan of the gravity feed guns. Easy clean up is one big advantage, however they do not do well if you need to spray in weird positions.

Maybe it is just luck on my part but I have found the pro-classic to be very forgiving. I go slow and get a decent coverage and let it do it's thing.

Joe