Table Saw Alignment, How Close is Close Enough

[Tom Gerken]

I finally bought a dial indicator and I am adjusting every tool I have. Wonderful device!
My new planer sniped like crazy, but now it performs wonderfully. I tackled the Jointer and then moved onto the TS.

The blade is .012 off of parallel, about 1/64 for the fractional folks. Is this close enough? It has been this way forever. It is a contractors saw but built into a larger work / out feed table so adjusting wont be as easy as it could be. I was wondering why my work sucked, at least I now have an excuse.

Would you adjust it or leave it? What is close enough?

Thanks is advance.

[Bill Huber]

I would and if you don't it will always bug you that you didn't. A 64th is a lot to be out and I know it can be a pain to get it right but anything worth doing is worth doing right.
I have a contractor saw and it took me most of an afternoon to get it, now that was after I spent 2 hours on it the day before.

[Burt Pierce]

I would set up the saw so that the blade is parallel to the miter slot and the fence is parallel to the blade. This eliminates the possible compounding of error when both set up referencing the miter slot. As far as I am concerned + or - zero is acceptable. Actually I will allow .001 to .002. Also set the blade at 90.000 degrees to the table top. Spend the time and you won't be sorry.

[Stephen Cherry]

+- .002 sounds OK to me also. Make sure you mark the blade so you measure from the same tooth. I have done it blade to slot, then fence to slot, just because its easier and I consider the slot to be the fixed parameter. There's no guarantee that the slots are parallel though.

[Bob Wingard]

I would set up the saw so that the blade is parallel to the miter slot and the fence is parallel to the blade. This eliminates the possible compounding of error when both set up referencing the miter slot. As far as I am concerned + or - zero is acceptable. Actually I will allow .001 to .002. Also set the blade at 90.000 degrees to the table top. Spend the time and you won't be sorry.

While this approach sounds logical, it is not correct. In doing this, you are aligning a movable plane with another movable plane.

You should always align the movable surfaces to a stationary one .. in this case, the miter gauge slot.

[keith ouellette]

I got a ton of flack last year (or so) from a number of people who thought trying to set up to a .003 tolerance was just ridiculous. My saw blade was out by something like .005 from the miter and the fence was out about the same. I got burn marks pretty regularly and even though a few people told me that .005 out would not create burn marks I made adjustments anyway and now none of the wood burns. My cuts are almost glass smooth now. Ok. maybe not that smooth but you know what I mean. My TS is the only completely reliable tool in my shop.

One thing I noticed about dial indicators is that you need to use them cautiously. If you move it from the front of the fence to the back, make certain it is set up exactly the same way both time. when I check my fence I make certain to push down on the miter bar the dial is attached to in the same manner every time to get a better reading. Look out for saw dust also.

[John P. Smith]

While this approach sounds logical, it is not correct. In doing this, you are aligning a movable plane with another movable plane.

You should always align the movable surfaces to a stationary one .. in this case, the miter gauge slot.
+1
Think about this...The surface of the exposed blade is less than 8", so when you align the blade to the slot, you are aligning to slightly less than 8" of a 27" long slot. But 8" is all you have, so that is all you can align. So now you align the blade to the middle of a 27" long fence??? Wouldn't it be better to align each end of the 27" fence to the 27" slot? Makes sense to me.

[Keith Westfall]

Is this close enough? It has been this way forever. It is a contractors saw but built into a larger work / out feed table so adjusting wont be as easy as it could be. I was wondering why my work sucked, at least I now have an excuse.


I think you answered your own question....

[hank dekeyser]

I gotta chime in - aligning everything to the slot is like aligning car tires to the frame-

Step one : align the blade to the miter slot - verify the miter slot is true and straight - verify both miter slots are parrellel
Step two : align the fence to the miter slot that you aligned the blade to
Then while you're at it- zero out your miter gauge to the blade (and) set the zero and 45 degree stops for the trunnion
Also dont forget to verify that your fence is perpendicular to the table
done

[Neil Brooks]

Having just aligned my radial arm saw, I was VERY glad that I bought a "Master Plate:"

http://cdn7.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g7582.jpg

Got mine from Grizzly (http://grizzly.com/products/g7582), for fifty bucks.

For ME, it was well worth it. Takes just one more variable (blade/teeth) out of the equation. On the RAS, my results -- with a dial indicator -- were really stellar !

And ... yeah ... when it comes to aligning machines ... a thing worth doing really IS worth doing well.

[Eiji Fuller]

Not sure how close you can get it with a contractors saw since you may have runout issues in the arbor. I like to get as close to perfect as possible. Sometimes I get lucky while adjusting and its within .001 but I dont fuss if its .002 or even .003 but no more than that. .012 is huge. you could drive a truck through that.

Ive got my slider to within .001 at each end of the slide. Got very lucky on that one. I put on the slide and measured and it was spot on rechecked after tightening the bolts and still dead nuts. I couldve been there all day.

[Bob Wingard]

- verify both miter slots are parrellel


One problem here ... WHAT IF .. they are NOT parallel ???? I don't (hardly) ever use the right slot, but if I did need it, and it was out of line, there's really nothing PRACTICAL that the average owner can do about it. I am very fortunate in that I have access to a mill that could fix that, but than, the slots would not be the same width .. another difficult situation.

[Kevin Gregoire]

has anyone found a really great price on the master plate anywhere?
anyone cheaper than Grizzly at $50??



http://cdn7.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g7582.jpg

[John Coloccia]

Re: aligning to the miter slots

I'd also recommend aligning to one side of the slot every time. Pick the right edge or left edge of the slot. You'd be surprised how far out these slots can be. I always use the inside edge because that's the edge push against when I'm running material through. This allows me to push against the outside edge when I'm pulling the material back, thus avoiding the blade so I don't shave more wood off. Yes, I leave my miter bars a little loose.

[Bob Turkovich]

Re: aligning to the miter slots

I always use the inside edge because that's the edge push against when I'm running material through. This allows me to push against the outside edge when I'm pulling the material back, thus avoiding the blade so I don't shave more wood off. Yes, I leave my miter bars a little loose.

That's OK, John...as long as you remember to do it everytime.

I have a Delta tenoning jig that (I thought) had a good fit to the miter slot. I was doing a set-up part for a project and ran the first cut through. I pulled the jig back to flip the work piece - without turning off the power - and had a vertical projectile. :eek: Since my workroom is the basement, my wife and daughter can running down the stairs to see what the loud bang was about.

Since then it has been....make the cut...turn the power off and wait for the blade to stop...pull the jig back...flip the part, etc. Other than that incident, I've been getting excellent M & T fits with that jig.

[Ken Cohen]

Let me add another variable to the alignment process. On my Jet cabinet saw (purchased used in good condition), I found that the plastic face of the fence was not perfectly straight across its length. It has a slight bow with a roughly .005 indentation in the center relative to the edges.

To date, I've lived with this error -- and get good results in actual practice. I guess I should find the time to correct it by diagnosing the cause (remove plastic fence, test metal fence, etc.) and fixing it (shim?).

Has anyone else seen this problem? Worth fixing? Solutions?

Thanks.

Ken

[Lee Schierer]

I would set up the saw so that the blade is parallel to the miter slot and the fence is parallel to the blade. This eliminates the possible compounding of error when both set up referencing the miter slot. As far as I am concerned + or - zero is acceptable. Actually I will allow .001 to .002. Also set the blade at 90.000 degrees to the table top. Spend the time and you won't be sorry.

If you align the fence to the blade you only have 8" to work with from one end of the blade to the other. If you align the fence to the miter slot you have18" or more to work with. You would have far less error aligning to the miter slot than to the blade.

I was able to get my Craftsman TS aligned within +/-.001 in about an hour. I get no burning even on maple or cherry and you have to look extremely closely to even see tooth marks on the sides of boards.

Make sure when using a dial indicator that your miter gauge bar fits tighly (side to side) in your miter slot. My miter gauge bar orignally had about .004" of clearance in the miter slot. I reduced that to .0005" by adding a thin strip of UHMW polyethylene tape to one side of the miter gauge bar.

[keith ouellette]

Let me add another variable to the alignment process. On my Jet cabinet saw (purchased used in good condition), I found that the plastic face of the fence was not perfectly straight across its length. It has a slight bow with a roughly .005 indentation in the center relative to the edges.

To date, I've lived with this error -- and get good results in actual practice. I guess I should find the time to correct it by diagnosing the cause (remove plastic fence, test metal fence, etc.) and fixing it (shim?).

Has anyone else seen this problem? Worth fixing? Solutions?

Thanks. Ken
I have a jet 3hp cabinet with the exact fence system (Maybe exact 2 but can't remember) and I noticed the same thing with my fence. At one time I also notice I had a scratch in the fence. I couldn't really see it but could feel it and it had a raised edge that stuck out by as much as 1/64. I sanded the scratch flat.

I have an aluminum fence that is flatter than the exacta fence and was thinking of getting a roll of very fine sand paper and using that to remove the hump in my exact fence.

Not certain how well it would work. I think a thick piece of hard wood jointed flat world work ad well if your jointer is set up really well.

[Jerome Hanby]

I think at that point I would decide I had a "bad" saw and start combing CL. I guess if the saw were new enough, it might be worth contacting the manufacturer, they might replace the table. Of course if the manufacturer were lax enough to let a table like that get out the door in the first place, I would bet they aren't consientious enough to try to make the matter right.


One problem here ... WHAT IF .. they are NOT parallel ???? I don't (hardly) ever use the right slot, but if I did need it, and it was out of line, there's really nothing PRACTICAL that the average owner can do about it. I am very fortunate in that I have access to a mill that could fix that, but than, the slots would not be the same width .. another difficult situation.

[John Coloccia]

That's OK, John...as long as you remember to do it everytime.

I have a Delta tenoning jig that (I thought) had a good fit to the miter slot. I was doing a set-up part for a project and ran the first cut through. I pulled the jig back to flip the work piece - without turning off the power - and had a vertical projectile. :eek: Since my workroom is the basement, my wife and daughter can running down the stairs to see what the loud bang was about.

Since then it has been....make the cut...turn the power off and wait for the blade to stop...pull the jig back...flip the part, etc. Other than that incident, I've been getting excellent M & T fits with that jig.

Good point. I got into the habit on my old contractor saw where to hit the off switch, I had to move from the safety of the miter gauge, maneuver free hand in the vicinity of the blade and find the switch. It feels safer with my hands on the workpiece and the gauge...if they made it through in one piece they'll make it back as well :) With my SS's paddle switch, I guess there's really no excuse.

Incidentally, all of the tenon jigs I've seen have a lot of slop in them. I always assumed it was intentional so that you can clear the blade on the way back. Maybe I give them too much credit :)

[Neil Brooks]

Incidentally, all of the tenon jigs I've seen have a lot of slop in them. I always assumed it was intentional so that you can clear the blade on the way back. Maybe I give them too much credit :)

No, John. You're EXACTLY right. Thanks for making that clear.

Sincerely,

Every tenoning jig manufacturer ;)

[David Hostetler]

Just from my experience...

#1. Make sure your miter slot / miter table runs parallel to the blade.
#2. Align your fence to within .003" with the rear of the fence biasing AWAY from the blade. Do NOT allow it to be closer to the front or you run a greater risk of pinching / kickback.
#3. My advise is worth exactly what you paid for it...

[Tom Gerken]

I took the plunge, and 90 minutes later...done. It was easier than I thought. I suspected the bolts would be very hard to get to, but that was not the case.
Had to take the motor of to get to the bolts (due to my out feed table), performed the alignment, got to about .002 so put it all back together again. Once back together, I rechecked and noticed that it was off by about .008. So this time I figure that I would do it with the motor weight on the arbor, and sure enough that was the problem. After aligning with the motor weight I was able to get it to .002 and it stayed that way.

Interesting that the weight of the motor made that big of a difference. To me this was a big observation about the quality level of a contractors saw. What do you think, is this par for the course from a contractors saw? Have to believe that a cabinet saw would not have this problem. I did notice that the blade run out was also about .002.

[Jon Middleton]

Interesting that guys mention aligning the fence to the miter slots. I thought the fence should tail away from the blade (and so miter slots) slightly???

[John Coloccia]

A lot of us do but we measure the offset from the miter slot :) It's just more convenient because that's the part of the saw that you absolutely can't move, so it's convenient to align everything from there to keep from compounding errors.