Making a poor man's concrete floor grinder?

[Phil Thien]

The diamond cup wheels HF sells work great for removing the vinyl tile adhesive from my shop's concrete floor:

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-diamond-turbo-cup-wheel-66353.html

I poured some water on the floor, and pushed (by hand) the wheel over the floor and it started cutting the adhesive right away. I didn't even have to apply much pressure.

But I have a lot of floor to do, and I'm wondering if there is some device I could connect the diamond wheel to that would spin it and allow me to shove it around the floor. Something that wouldn't spin it too fast.

Something that would allow me to stand would be optimum.

I've been thinking of a way to adapt an angle grinder. I'd need to add a handle that would me to stand and yet keep the wheel flat to the floor (so it doesn't dig in), and a speed control to slow it down. The speed control is easy, the handle is the trick.

I saw a design on youtube which looks to use a stock angle grinder, but it is sort of elaborate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5KSji40p4&playnext=1&list=PL8FED74D9146C4328

Any ideas?

Or is there something out there already that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[Steve Kohn]

How about going to your local rental place. No design or fabrication required.

[Charles Lent]

I've seen this done with a commercial floor scrubber with no diamond wheel, just a worn out scrubber brush, some masonry sand, and water. The worn out scrubber brush dioesn't even need to have any bristles left on it. The rubbing action of the sand and water under the scrubber will remove the glue very quickly and economically

If you do this and need to use an extension cord, be careful to keep the cord and connectors out of the water. Even with a GFI, it's possible to get a shock from a bad spot in the extension cord or a wet connector, under certain unusual conditions. Rubber boots will make it safer too.

Charley

[Jim O'Dell]

When I tiled two of the rooms in the house, the builders had stained and varnished the cabinet doors on the concrete before putting them up. I was warned to be sure to get down to the concrete before tiling or it wouldn't stick. I put the diamond cup on my angle grinder. Make sure you have fans set up to blow out and the room sealed off, because in about 3 minutes, there is such a thick cloud of concrete dust in the air, you can't see the floor 24" away!!! I'm not kidding. Don't know if there is such a thing as a variable speed angle grinder, but that would help. Next time I do it I'm going to invest in a cheap HF dust blower and have the unit outside!!! Actually, I think I will use the crack isolation membrane on the entire surface. The adhesive sticks to anything. Jim.

[ray hampton]

I've seen this done with a commercial floor scrubber with no diamond wheel, just a worn out scrubber brush, some masonry sand, and water. The worn out scrubber brush dioesn't even need to have any bristles left on it. The rubbing action of the sand and water under the scrubber will remove the glue very quickly and economically

If you do this and need to use an extension cord, be careful to keep the cord and connectors out of the water. Even with a GFI, it's possible to get a shock from a bad spot in the extension cord or a wet connector, under certain unusual conditions. Rubber boots will make it safer too.

Charley

I know that you heard this before but water and electric do not mix
I recommended a profane or propane -powered buffer

[Phil Thien]

I know that you heard this before but water and electric do not mix
I recommended a profane or propane -powered buffer

But that have electric floor buffers made for industry. That are intended to be used with water. They have to be somewhat safe, no?

[Phil Thien]

I've seen this done with a commercial floor scrubber with no diamond wheel, just a worn out scrubber brush, some masonry sand, and water. The worn out scrubber brush dioesn't even need to have any bristles left on it. The rubbing action of the sand and water under the scrubber will remove the glue very quickly and economically

If you do this and need to use an extension cord, be careful to keep the cord and connectors out of the water. Even with a GFI, it's possible to get a shock from a bad spot in the extension cord or a wet connector, under certain unusual conditions. Rubber boots will make it safer too.

Charley

Another member here suggested I do the same thing in a previous thread.

I was worried about renting a floor buffer because the stuff turns to a goo, and I didn't want to be on the hook for a $600 to $1000 floor buffer because the stuff is all over it.

And I didn't want to rent a concrete grinder because I'm afraid of taking off too much concrete.

I have been watching craigslist for a used floor buffer, but don't want one that is too big and some of them that come up are quite expensive. And without a chance to try it, I didn't want to spend $200+ for a unit and find out it doesn't get my glue up, and now I own a $200+ buffer.

But I do think a floor buffer would probably work pretty well.

I should just refocus my energy that way.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I'd have the mastic tested to see if it had asbestos in it before grinding it off. This stuff takes mastic off pretty well without grinding:
http://www.amazon.com/Bean-e-doo-Mastic-Remover-1-Gallon/dp/B0006NL1JA

It's available locally somewhere around Milwaukee (I don't recall where) but I have some you are welcome to try.

[Phil Thien]

I sent a piece of tile with some of the glue on it in and it came back negative. Nonetheless, I'm going to use water during this process because: (1) Anything you do to concrete is very dusty and (2) You can't be too careful.

I have tried the chemical removers, still need a mechanical motivator. I may take you up on the Bean-e-doo. I got some stuff at Menards that was very highly reviewed, but I don't think it really help much more than water.

I'm thinking a floor buffer is in my future.

[John P. Smith]

Phil, how much compressed air capacity do you have? An air grinder would solve the speed control and electrical shock problems. Then your only project is the stand up handle. You could probably bolt some 2X4's together with a couple casters to mimic the metal rig in the video.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, how much compressed air capacity do you have? An air grinder would solve the speed control and electrical shock problems. Then your only project is the stand up handle. You could probably bolt some 2X4's together with a couple casters to mimic the metal rig in the video.

Unfortunately, I just have a little compressor for running some nail guns.

[keith ouellette]

I know that you heard this before but water and electric do not mix
I recommended a profane or propane -powered buffer

Spa? Whirl pool tub? Industrial carpet scrubber? WET vac?

Just wondering;)

[keith ouellette]

All the times I have removed that adhesive I used hot water and a scraper to get the thickest layer up. Then I let it dry and then used an adhesive remover to scrape up what was left.

If you need to grind just rent a grinder from a tool rental. You can get a fine grinder that will not do much to the concrete and it will go very quickly.

[ray hampton]

Spa? Whirl pool tub? Industrial carpet scrubber? WET vac?

Just wondering;)


the point was made about using an extender cord and getting shock treatment when water get into the the plug

[Rick Christopherson]

Wow, thanks for the idea. I have been contemplating putting VCT tile down in the garage, but I need to remove the epoxy paint first. It's industrial epoxy, but after 7 years or more, it's chipping under my truck. However, removing those areas that aren't chipping would be very difficult.

Taking your two ideas, I would build a simple dolly that my angle grinder connects to. My needs are different from yours, in that I would tackle small areas, lay the tile, then move more junk out of my way to tackle a new area. So I think I would prefer not standing up while operating it.


the point was made about using an extender cord and getting shock treatment when water get into the the plugYou've been watching too many Hollywood movies. You don't get a shock simply by standing in water that has been energized by an extension cord laying in the water. You need to be part of the circuit. The grinder would be double insulated unless it's an antique. So you'd have to virtually submerge it in water. That notwithstanding, I would not do this without a GFCI.

[Phil Thien]

Taking your two ideas, I would build a simple dolly that my angle grinder connects to. My needs are different from yours, in that I would tackle small areas, lay the tile, then move more junk out of my way to tackle a new area. So I think I would prefer not standing up while operating it.

I would actually prefer to work on small areas, too, as I have tools, etc. to move. If my basement was empty I'd just go hire the job out and be done with it.

Which I'm still tempted to do, as spring is in the air and I could stuff most of my things into the garage for a week while they do the work. It would be a PITA because I'd have to move them all up the stairs, outside, and to the garage. OTOH, most of my tools are quite light.

Some people had mentioned using a floor buffer, this morning I tried to "emulate" one with a green (stiffest) scouring pad, some water, some chemicals, and some four letter works. The adhesive really didn't budge. These modern-day enviromentally friendly chemicals just haven't been a match. I've left the stuff on for an hour, I've scoured it, the adhesive just laughs. I have actually come to respect the adhesive on a sort of deep, spiritual level.

I had thought to get a used floor buffer and make my own "pad" which would just been three of the diamond wheels bolted to a scouring pad using fender washers to keep a grip. Have no idea if this would work, though. Have substantial doubts.

I'd really rather do this in bits and pieces. Doing it in a single shot would make the decision to rent a grinder much more straight-forward.

[Brad Shipton]

I use a Flex concrete polisher for concrete counter tops, but I don't think that falls into the category of a poor man solution. Hitli has dry concrete grinders equipped a shroud and vac connection, but this would definetly be a rental item since anything Hitli makes Festool look like a poor man tool.

Brad

[ray hampton]

Wow, thanks for the idea. I have been contemplating putting VCT tile down in the garage, but I need to remove the epoxy paint first. It's industrial epoxy, but after 7 years or more, it's chipping under my truck. However, removing those areas that aren't chipping would be very difficult.

Taking your two ideas, I would build a simple dolly that my angle grinder connects to. My needs are different from yours, in that I would tackle small areas, lay the tile, then move more junk out of my way to tackle a new area. So I think I would prefer not standing up while operating it.

You've been watching too many Hollywood movies. You don't get a shock simply by standing in water that has been energized by an extension cord laying in the water. You need to be part of the circuit. The grinder would be double insulated unless it's an antique. So you'd have to virtually submerge it in water. That notwithstanding, I would not do this without a GFCI.


you may be as smart as Epstein was but you had to be God to tell me what shocks me or not, I not trying to be rude but I do not trust high voltage when it is accompany by high amps and water is a good conductor

[Rick Christopherson]

Some people had mentioned using a floor buffer, this morning I tried to "emulate" one with a green (stiffest) scouring pad, some water, some chemicals, and some four letter works. The adhesive really didn't budge. These modern-day enviromentally friendly chemicals just haven't been a match. I've left the stuff on for an hour, I've scoured it, the adhesive just laughs. I have actually come to respect the adhesive on a sort of deep, spiritual level.How you tackle your problem is based on the condition of the adhesive. If it is hard and crumbly, then abrasion will be best. However, some adhesives remain pliable, and they pose the greatest problem for removal.

In a previous life, I was an Industrial Hygiene Tech and would oversee removal of asbestos containing adhesive removal. When the adhesive was pliable, the common solutions (not all successful) were to freeze it with dry ice, or use a commercial adhesive solvent (we called it "Agent Orange" because it was citrus-based), and scrape the floor with sharpened ice chippers. This was actually pretty effective, but that was before water-based adhesives were used.

[Rick Christopherson]

you may be as smart as Epstein was but you had to be God to tell me what shocks me or not, I not trying to be rude but I do not trust high voltage when it is accompany by high amps and water is a good conductorIn my experience, when someone specifically states they are not trying to be rude, it is actually the opposite. They are trying their best to be rude, but pretending to conceal it behind those words. C'est la vie. I got a chuckle, but no more of a rise out of me than that.

However, as to your latter comments, the better the conductivity of the water, the lower your risk for injury--given the situation you and a previous poster presented. That's because with higher conductivity comes a lower voltage gradient over distance. Electricity flows only when there is a difference in voltage. If the voltage gradient is low across the distance you are standing, there is no risk to you.

However, since this is off-topic from the original poster's question, I'm going to just leave it at that and move along.

[Rob Waldref]

scrape the floor with sharpened ice chippers.

This is what I found that works

[ray hampton]

In my experience, when someone specifically states they are not trying to be rude, it is actually the opposite. C'est la vie. I got a chuckle, but no more of a rise out of me than that.
They are trying their best to be rude, but pretending to conceal it behind those words.
However, as to your latter comments, the better the conductivity of the water, the lower your risk for injury--given the situation you and a previous poster presented. That's because with higher conductivity comes a lower voltage gradient over distance. Electricity flows only when there is a difference in voltage. If the voltage gradient is low across the distance you are standing, there is no risk to you.

However, since this is off-topic from the original poster's question, I'm going to just leave it at that and move along.

telling me that I am trying to be rude when I told you that I did not intend to be rude is like telling me that I am lying

[Phil Thien]

telling me that I am trying to be rude when I told you that I did not intend to be rude is like telling me that I am lying

AND that will be the last off-topic post, please. Keep it on-topic from here on, or I'll report the posts.

Thank you.