Used Table Saw Pricing? (Unisaw/PM66)

[Dave Carteret]

I'm in the market for a "new" table saw. Needs to be a US-made saw, which pretty much narrows it down to a Unisaw or PM66.

Seeing as how both saws have been around nearly forever, those out there on CL certainly vary in terms of age and condition. That being the case, I've found it's like shopping for an old Corvette. Everyone with a Corvette thinks that theirs is worth no less than $10k, even if it's really a rusted out basket case worth $5k. So most people are either high, or way high in their asking prices, but some are reasonable.

Is there any way to place a real value on a saw, beyond the purely arbitrary "doesn't seem too old, and looks ok, I guess it's worth $1k"?

Should a 10 year old saw be less than a 5 year old? What about 15-20 years? Usage obviously has a lot to do with it, but that's hard to assess, especially in a saw that might have changed hands already.

Thanks!
Dave

[Jeff Monson]

A new Pm2000 will set you back $2500.00, so I'd start with that number as a basis for buying a PM66. If you can find one in really nice condition (good fence, rust free flat table, etc. etc.) it should be worth in the $1000.00 - $1200.00 range. I've seen a few on CL that are worth that, considering the condition and accessories included. I've also seen alot of CL that are priced in the $1200.00 range that are worth 1/2 that. You just have to weed through alot of overpriced machines to find the right one for you. For what its worth, I sold a really nice condition Pm2000 for $1700.00 last fall, it sold quick but was nice. I've seen a couple of PM66's in really nice shape, single phase, extra blades, extension table, mobile base, on CL in the past year and they were both asking in the $1100.00 to $1300.00 price range. Who knows what they actually sold for.

For me though, when buying used machines, condition is the major factor in the purchase. A 15 year old machine in great condition is worth more than a 5 year old machine that has lived a tough life. But you have to be comparing apples to apples of course.

[Dave MacArthur]

Saw condition and shape, which usually come down to what sort of use they've had.
A saw in a home shop with light use, well taken care of, is usually in much better condition than one in a commercial shop used 10 hours a day by min-wage workers that don't own or care about the machine. Running the saw and checking for vibration helps you confirm good bearings and belts, running the hand wheels for blade tilt and height lets you see slop and smoothness, and working the fence to check for smoothness and accuracy is most critical. Other things to do are measure blade squareness to top/miter track, and fence squareness to the blade, which you can do with a straight edge and dial caliper pretty easy.

Dave, you should post your location in your profile, for posts like this it's very helpful. For instance...
I have a PM66 sitting in my shop which I should sell, which hasn't seen more than 200 bf of lumber across it for 6 years, in perfect shape. I thought it would be nice to have a dedicated dado-saw to go with my SawStop, but my wife thinks parking in the garage should be possible...
In Phoenix, I see PM66 go for between $1000 and $1600 in decent shape.

[Dave Carteret]

Updated my profile. Didn't realise my location wasn't in there.
It's clear that your wife has some skewed priorities! LOL

There's a PM66 for sale nearby on CL for $1300. The seller didn't include a pic, age, or serial number, and hasn't replied to my email.

There's also an X5 Unisaw listed nearby for $1350. Looks like that was a production shop of some sort.

[Carroll Courtney]

Dave I have had both,a 1954 Unisaw and still have a PM66 from the 90's.I also have a Rockwell from the 90's.The PM66 I purchase before the internet(are before I knew about it)which I think limits the access to buyers which drives up the price.I paid a pretty penny for it but it is worth it.Since the internet and CL's I pickup the Delta Uni, and the Rockwell Uni for a very good deal(IMO) which is why I ended up w/3 saws.Last one better than the others.To me,buying used and American is pennys on a dollar,you just can't go wrong providing that no casting is broken.All it takes is alittle time to restore,then your good for the rest of your wwing life.This saw here I sold for 600 and the person got a good deal,but I was happy w/the sale.Try to get you a saw that is near complete as possible,cause replacement parts on the auction site is expensive.Be patient,and have cash on hand.Good Luck----Carroll

[Karl Brogger]

I paid $1400 for a Powermatic Model 66 a few months ago, (built in 1998) that was in pretty sweet condition. The top took some cleaning to get looking new again.

I wouldn't buy too new of a Model 66. I have two, the 98', and a 04' that I purchased new, and the 04' is a piece of junk.

[Dave Carteret]

Good to keep in mind, Karl. I would have assumed a PM66 is a PM66 no matter the age, but I suppose they may have gone cheaper on things as time went on. So it's a use/wear vs quality issue I suppose.

I see older Unisaws that look to be in rough (or at least uncleaned) shape, and while saving a little $$ to get an older saw would be nice, the restoration isn't really a project I would want to take on at this point. I'd rather spend a little more & spend that time cutting :) $1000-1200 seems to be the price point for a decent looking saw on CL

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I wouldn't buy too new of a Model 66. I have two, the 98', and a 04' that I purchased new, and the 04' is a piece of junk.

:confused:
Please tell us the big differences.

[Rod Sheridan]

Dave, I tend to consider half price a good starting point for pricing used equipment in good condition.

So if the saw is $3K new, I would expect to pay around $1,500 used.

I know you want a US saw, you may also find a General saw in your search, they're made in Canada. Not American, however the quality is comparable.

Regards, Rod.

[Heather Thompson]

I paid $1400 for a Powermatic Model 66 a few months ago, (built in 1998) that was in pretty sweet condition. The top took some cleaning to get looking new again.

I wouldn't buy too new of a Model 66. I have two, the 98', and a 04' that I purchased new, and the 04' is a piece of junk.


Karl,

I bought an 05 PM66 and the saw is great, the saw was purchased from a fellow Creeker that actually works for WMH tool group. The saw that I got had no throat plate, no right/left wings, no fence and no power cord, also no dust in the cabinet either, but it did include a factory mobile base. I already had a Incra TSIII with 92" rails, went out and bought a 1" thick slab of phenolic for wings, bought a Betterly insert and life is good. I have used many PM66 saws from the 60, 70, 80 era, 3 and 5hp, single and triple phase, my mustard beauty can hold her head high and stand tall and she does not need heels.:D Please explain why your 04 is a piece of junk, if you ever come to the Chicago area you can visit my shop and show me where my saw is lacking.

Heather

[Karl Brogger]

I've pulled the motor twice for repair. Different things both times.
It rattles at start-up, always has.
Nothing moves well despite cleaning, adjustment and lubrication. But its not horrible either.
There's a snap ring that the blade height adjustment pivots on, its failed twice. The whole trunnion creeps to the right when it starts to go.
Had to replace a key on one of the pulleys. It just rattled out, despite the lock screw being tight.
The spot weld on the little chip deflector behind the blade failed.
Even the threads on the arbor nut are not cut as smoothly as those on the older saw.

So, Heather, I'm enthralled that your saw is a bag of wonderful, but mine is a pile-o-crap, and has been trouble from the beginning. And to be perfectly honest most of the operational things I would not have noticed if I didn't have two of them.

I've worked places where model 66's only got shut off at breaks and the end of the day that did not have the issues that mine has had at my small volume company.

[Chip Lindley]

I paid $1400 for a Powermatic Model 66 a few months ago, (built in 1998) that was in pretty sweet condition. The top took some cleaning to get looking new again.

I wouldn't buy too new of a Model 66. I have two, the 98', and a 04' that I purchased new, and the 04' is a piece of junk.

Almost four years ago I gave $1175 for a (3hp Baldor 1ph) '98 "mustard" PM66 in VG condition. It came with an Exaktor sliding table and over-arm blade guard, HTC mobile base, plus lots of "goodies" in the storage drawers beneath the extension table. I deemed the purchase from auction of a wealthy Doctor who changed hobbies, ONE HECKUVA DEAL!! The '98 purrs as it should with not one problem. I do hold it's light-weight import mag starter suspect in the long term. But, I have an original Gould mag starter ready to slap on if the ChiWan starter bites the dust.

Another great deal on a PM66 happened for me last Fall. I won a very nice "gold" 1988,3hp Baldor 1ph, on eBay of all places, (a school shop saw) for only $356 plus a fun 12 hr. round trip to Omaha and back. The saw did not include any fence, but I had an extra Biesemeyer 50" commercial on hand. With $165 in the fence, plus $150 gas and eats, and selling the saw's overarm Safety-Flex blade guard on eBay for $73.00, the "gold" PM66 still cost me $592 net. Not too baad, I think!

So, now I have two PM66s of different vintage, but equal in performance. As Carl says, PM66s built toward the end of their reign in the mid-2000s tend to suffer more and more. For my bucks, PM66s from mid '80s to end of the '90s rule! Old ads in FFW find a PM66 for $1400 in 1988; $1800 by 1998. Today's selling prices are comensurate with what a buyer is willing to pay for a premium TS that will become increasingly harder to find as time goes by. A solid PM66 in the $1000+ range is realistic. Anything less, is one heckuva deal!

[John Fabre]

I bought my 5hp single phase PM 66 Made In USA eleven years ago with the sliding table, paid $1800.00. I wouldn’t let it go. If you can buy an older one in good condition less than $1500.00, jump on it. The top should be like a mirror, with minor scratches and no rust. Can’t beat American steel. Mid 2000, Powermatic started to source out the parts to overseas manufactures, to assemble the PM 66 here and calling them Made In USA. They’re not. If a US company assembles 30% of the tools here, they are considered USA made.

[Craig Ryder]

I'm certainly no expert but I have followed the local market (I live in SW Michigan) for about 6 months and finally bought a used 11 year old Unisaw in excellent condition for $700 yesterday. I see I live just a little east across the state from you. Took me about 6 months to latch onto it. I will have to shell out for new fence (or at least rails) as the rails are not long enough for me.

After watching, and disregarding the overpriced stuff (the saws that stay on the market forever,) Id say the 1/2 retail rule is about right (perhaps a tad high) for saws in decent shape, but good deals are out there. I preferred hobbyists as sellers for reasons discussed in posts above. But I would happily buy from a commercial seller (missed a couple because I was late) if the saw looked good. Once you get into a shop you get a sense of how the equipment was used and how the seller treats his equipment. I never spent more than a few minutes looking at a saw (and I admit I am really a beginner in this area and this is my first good TS.) All I did was turn it on. Listen to the motor and check for vibration. Put the blade up and down and tilt and check for smoothness. Quick measure for alignment blade to table and fence. Takes 5 minutes at most. If you can take it straight home and use it without putting too much time and money into it Id say, based on my short experience, that around 1-1.2k was about the price for my area. There are a lot of sellers charging 800-1k for major work projects too.

I passed on a couple Unisaws in very good condition with fine extensions in the $1k- 1,250 price area in the last 6 months. I felt these were fair deals but waited around for a real deal which I eventually got. Both of these were not too far from you. I've looked at mostly 3hp, single phase stuff. I have no need for more.

As an aside, they are surprisingly easy to move. A dolly and ramp makes it a no brainer.

[Dave Carteret]

Thanks for the info Craig. Did you find yours on Criaigslist? If so, I've probably seen it on there. I've been looking in the 150-200 mile range from me, which puts some of them down around Indy (a bit too far), and pretty far up North.

Perhaps the most frustrating part of it is the ads on CL. Look people, it's FREE! You don't pay per word, so make it a halfway decent description! And if you're going to take a picture of it in your dark garage with poor lighting and no flash, well.... just don't....maybe call someone for help. LOL

[David Peterson MN]

I was able to get an excellent deal on a 66 2 years ago. For $1,200 dollars I got a 1998 PM66 3hp w/ 52 inch fence, Jet JJ-6CSX Jointer AND a PM model 72 dust collector. I was able to sell the jointer and turned that into a 1hp, 4 wheel, 8 speed power feeder. If I sold the DC, I would have probably $600 into the 66. If you have patience, you will stumble on that great deal. Good luck.

[John TenEyck]

Keep looking and one of those sweet running, older, truly Americian made machines will come your way. And when you're done with it at the end of your wwking days you can pass it on or sell it for more than you paid for it.

[Julian Tracy]

186396I picked up my 44 Unisaw for $600 last year. I don't consider that to be a gloatable price, but it was a good solid deal as it came complete with a cast iron goose egg cover and had been totally restored about 10 years prior to my purchase of it.

Since then, I've put $140 into a Biessy style fence that a fellow WW had totally restored and repainted and re-faced, bought a Biessy Ohead guard with dust collection for $200 and have built an extension table with router/sander insert and installed on a mobile base and built in a nice sidebox tool cabinet under the wing for accessories.

Mine has the 1HP Bullet 110v motor, I run it on a dedicated 20amp circuit and it runs strong.

So I've got about $950 into it plus some custom stuff, but man, what an honor to own and use it. I do wish it had T-slots in the table though, that'd be handy...

I've seen better deals, but I know I could always get my money back out of it if I ever needed to and I didn't have to run a new 220 circuit for it.

Julian

[Jeremy Brant]

I paid $600 for my 1987 PM66 about a year ago off CL. It is a 3hp single phase. It came with the 52" biesemeyer fence, but didn't have the extension table or a mobile base. I bought a new table insert (~25), fabricated a mobile base using square tubing (~100), and bought the factory extension table w/ legs (~140 maybe?). It also doesn't have the dust cover that goes over the motor, and since I don't have DC hooked up I haven't worried about picking up a replacement yet. The table on mine wasn't a mirror finish and has some small dings from use, but no rust and nothing that affects the cut, and the cast extension tables line up fine.

[Craig Ryder]

Thanks for the info Craig. Did you find yours on Criaigslist? If so, I've probably seen it on there. I've been looking in the 150-200 mile range from me, which puts some of them down around Indy (a bit too far), and pretty far up North.

Perhaps the most frustrating part of it is the ads on CL. Look people, it's FREE! You don't pay per word, so make it a halfway decent description! And if you're going to take a picture of it in your dark garage with poor lighting and no flash, well.... just don't....maybe call someone for help. LOL


Yes I found it on CL (Grand Rapids.) It was only up a few hours on the 7th. I bought it only a few minutes from the time it was posted. I'm basically retired but still do photography part time (mostly interiors for advertising,) and I agree CL is not going to win any photography awards (lol.) Anyway, enjoy the hunt! I'm still looking for a jointer and couple of things so I have my eye on the market. If I see a decent saw around I will let you know (private message.)

Julian, Nice saw! Pretty gloatable if you ask me. :)

Cheers,

[David Kumm]

Don't rule out the delta or rockwell 12-14. Unisaws and pm66 have a cult following with the owwm crowd so you can often buy the 12-14 or pm72 for the same money. Tablesaws are as cheap as I have seen in at least 5 years. 2000-2500 can buy a great oliver, tannewitz or northfield so your choices are almost limitless. 1000 to 2000 for a 12-14 or 72. Dave