Best custom engraving shops...

[Nick Benton]

Hey everyone! I don't want to start any wars here, but who is generally regarded as the best custom laser engraver in the United States? Specifically, need to photo engrave 1/8" acrylic and want to check output before investing in my own laser...

Thanks guys!

[Dan Hintz]

Do you mean from a shop standpoint or a machine standpoint? Either way, the question is somewhat moot as it depends upon a number of factors. Quality of machine being used, skill of operator and understanding of machine being used, quality of material being engraved, etc.

[Mike Null]

Nick

Nobody is regarded as the "best". Virtually all are relatively small businesses with local reputations. Nevertheless there is an abundance of competent engravers around the country.

In your case you might be best served by talking to your local laser sales reps.

[Gary Hair]

Hey everyone! I don't want to start any wars here, but who is generally regarded as the best custom laser engraver in the United States? Specifically, need to photo engrave 1/8" acrylic and want to check output before investing in my own laser...

Thanks guys!

Clearly, Laser Image would be your best choice. I was so impressed with their work, I bought the company!

disclaimer: I didn't buy the company, I started it...

Gary

[Mike Null]

I knew that was coming, just not quite sure which corner of the country.:)

[Dan Ashlin]

While Laser Image is clearly a fine company, I prefer Sentry Design & Engraving myself. :)

[Gary Hair]

While Laser Image is clearly a fine company, I prefer Sentry Design & Engraving myself. :)

For obvious reasons...

[Mike Null]

And, I should have added, a good number of very competent hobbyists whose engraving curiosity has produced new and novel ideas for those of us confined to the mundane engraving jobs that is our living.

[Dan Hintz]

While Laser Image is clearly a fine company, I prefer Sentry Design & Engraving myself. :)
Sure, but if you're looking at using something as high-tech as a laser, would you want to go with a company called Hi-Tec Designs ? :D :p

[Dee Gallo]

Nick,

No offense to you, but it has been proven time and time again that any number of people can own the same exact laser and come out with results from poor to fantastic - if you are buying one based on what someone else can do with theirs, you are not basing your decision on anything. That said, I am the best laser engraver in the country... if you want what I make.

Welcome to the Creek, and by now you see we are a bunch of friends who can't take this kind of question too seriously. If you want a serious answer to your question, ask for samples from each laser maker - they will send you the best they can do to impress you.

cheers, dee

[Michael Hunter]

Sure, but if you're looking at using something as high-tech as a laser, would you want to go with a company called Hi-Tec Designs ? :D :p

NO!!!!

Worked for a company called Hi-Tech Electronics. Bought my laser to get away from them!

[Dan Hintz]

Michael,

Then they were obviously doing it wrong ;)

[Michael Hunter]

My website was accessed from a forum where people talk about PC case modding. I didn't get any leads from this, so had a look at the forum to see what was going on.

Turns out they were on about engraving acrylic and someone had spotted my site. The concensus there was that laser engraving was "cheap and nasty" and that any self-respecting case modder would go for "proper" mechanical engraving.

(Fine by me - turning laserlights into sticky labels is deadly boring, but brings in loadsadosh without the hassle of dealing with picky nerds).

[Bill Cunningham]

Now if you were only in Canada..:D Your problems would be over!:rolleyes:

[Mike Null]

Nick

Now see what you've done.;)

[Joe De Medeiros]

While I don't think of myself as the best engraver, other have commented how awesome I am ;)

[Mike Null]

I believe I've heard that as well.;)

[Neil Pabia]

If there was only an easy answer to this one. Sure would be nice.

[Michael Hunter]

Its easy!

If you like the look of a customer, then YOU are the best.

If you don't like the looks of him, or think that he might not pay, then the next engraving shop down the road can definitely "do that sort of job better/quicker/cheaper".

[Dan Hintz]

If you like the look of a customer, then YOU are the best.

If you don't like the looks of him, or think that he might not pay, then the next engraving shop down the road can definitely "do that sort of job better/quicker/cheaper".
BTW, my shop is up the road from Michael's :D

[Terry Swift]

Bill,

Can't believe you said that. Friends I have in Canada do not like having to pay sometimes almost double what prices are here in the U.S.. Now there very well could be some items in Canada much cheaper than here, what they might be - don't know. I don't think NAFTA did much for you guys unless your G'ment is raking in all those taxes and fees.

I do have to agree with Dee to a point.:eek::eek: As seen at the ARA Show a couple weeks back - every supplier for everything ARA wise says they are the "best," whatever that is. People with Epilog will tell you they are better than Universal and so on with each manufacturer. Different models with different wattages make a huge difference if you plan on going into business in this industry.

An old axiom really fits here - you buy the most you can get that fits in your budget. If only $10k, then you start small. Got $100k then you can get some real horsepower with a nice table to do large work - which seems to pay better than small things like plaques, awards, dog tags, etc. :(:(:(:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Go to as much training / seminars offered by all the suppliers out there and then "YOU" can become the "BEST" at what you do! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Joe De Medeiros]

Bill,

Can't believe you said that. Friends I have in Canada do not like having to pay sometimes almost double what prices are here in the U.S.. Now there very well could be some items in Canada much cheaper than here, what they might be - don't know. I don't think NAFTA did much for you guys unless your G'ment is raking in all those taxes and fees.


They must be talking about booze, it certainly is more than double here, with all those G'ment sin taxes.

[Dee Gallo]

You guys are getting off the subject - the OP asked for the best laser operator so he can see output and base his buy on that. Whether or not that is a smart idea is up for grabs, but he wants to see what each brand can do with photos on acrylic.

I suggest he cruise through the many posts of acrylic work shown here and make his opinion based on many operators, not just one "best" operator. I do recommend he reads carefully to find out that it is the photo prep that really determines the quality of the job, not the laser brand.

As fun as this thread is, let's see if he can get some help! Here are some of my photos on acrylic, although I would not say they are the best ones I've ever done. Oh yeah, I have an Epilog mini and I like it very much.

~ dee

[Nick Benton]

Hey everyone, thanks for all your replies! I knew that was going to be opening a huge can of worms, but thought it'd be interesting to see the conversation it developed...anyway, I understand the futility of asking such a question. Of course, you all know, that someday soon I will be the best! As far as image preparation goes, I'm a professional photographer, and have a very firm grasp on digital processing and printing. I highly doubt that I will ever use Photograv, or any other software, that gives such minimal/automated control over the production of your halftones. This is by FAR the most vital step in any printing process. I've been researching the ULS and Epilog lasers, as well as the Kern lasers (which are absolutely works of art themselves), and I guess I was wondering if there was any appreciable difference between the quality of the output of any of these in the hands of an equally competent operator? Has anyone here on the forum developed a calibration step-test to create custom curves for output files? Really controlling each step of the process with proper profiles, is the key to consistent, predictable ouput. I know everyone likes to think they are best in their field, I just figured there were some "high-end" custom engraving shops out there...Like the difference between getting a print made at a true pro lab, or going to Walmart. They both generally use the same machines that cost ridiculous amounts of money, yet, there is no comparison between the images produced...

[Richard Rumancik]

A lot of us here have one brand of laser so don't always know the nitty-gritty details of how another machine works in comparison. Just like driving a car - I have not driven my neighbour's car but assume it will work pretty much like mine. Maybe some machines are better at photographs but probably nobody has done controlled tests like you suggest.

Now if you want to go into the business of laser engraving photos, make sure you have a market for high-end products. Even using PhotoGrav can take quite a bit of time, and at the end of it all perhaps you can sell something for $50 or $100. And it can be a tough sell. So if you want to go into the $100-250 market, make sure you have customers with deep pockets who can see and appreciate all the work and fine-tuning you will be doing.

Quite honestly, the substrates we mark on are rather crude from photographic standards. Lasering is is not like working with high quality continuous tone images on photographic paper. So I think you will be somewhat limited with what the substrates can do. Once you have the basics of lasering photographs mastered, (exposure, contrast, background, pose) it may be difficult to differentiate your product such that someone would be able to see a huge difference, due to the limitations of the substrates.

[Michael Hunter]

I agree with all that Richard has said.

In addition, there is a particular problem when engraving a photo onto organic materials like acrylic or wood : there are two modes of operation and it is hard to keep them separate, which would make the production of profiles very difficult indeed.
"Mode 1" is making dots on the surface of the material and is easily compared to normal printing operations.
"Mode 2" is the removal of material, where the result is more like a lithophane or embossing than simple printing.

"Mode 2" is particularly apparent in Dee's "Clough Clan" image. (Although Dee says these are not her best, they are very good and you rarely see better).

Wood is even worse than acrylic : with wood the aparent darkness caused by different dither patterns can (especially with some resiny woods) have little relationship to the image seen on the computer screen. On a recent (non-photographic) job, I had 40% grey turn out much darker than 100% black.

Glass, stone and ceramics avoid the "Mode 2" scenario since the laser cannot remove any significant amount of material.
There have been some recent posts showing outstanding work on stone.
Unfortunately the small photos do not allow you to see how much gradation of tonality is present.
My guess is that you would be hard pressed to achieve more than five or six distinct shades unless the artwork was very large. (It is a guess because I avoid photos like the plague - I refuse to spend my whole life stuck in front of Photoshop!).

A point not made previously is that the lens may make a big difference to the results. Most lasers are supplied with a general purpose lens of around 2" focal length and which produces a focus point of around 5 thousanths" diameter. The big-name makers all offer extra lenses intended for fine detail with a focal length of around 1.5" and a significantly smaller dot size : these lenses may well give better results for photo work.
Buying a fine detail lens WITH the laser would work out very much cheaper than getting it later as a spare, so it is worth investigating before you part with any cash.

When comparing machines, you need to check the speed of operation as well as the quality of the result.
A large job (say A3+, 13x19") is likely to take at least half an hour at medium resolution and if it is on acrylic then you have to be there watching it ***ALL*** the time (in case it catches on fire). So even small differences in speed could affect your profiabilty.

[Bill Cunningham]

Bill,

Can't believe you said that. Friends I have in Canada do not like having to pay sometimes almost double what prices are here in the U.S.. Now there very well could be some items in Canada much cheaper than here, what they might be - don't know. I don't think NAFTA did much for you guys unless your G'ment is raking in all those taxes and fees.

Most of the prices I see online, in this business anyway, are pretty well the same as what gets charged in the U.S. And currently the Canadian dollar is worth more than the U.S. buck, so that affects exports. The one thing I am thankful for, is Canada did not suffer the same level of recession suffered in the U.S. My U.S. Sales are way down, but my Canadian sales have more than tripled over that last two years. And ya we do get nailed with more taxes up here, and most importers think that we should pay 30% more 'just' because we are Canadian.. There are somethings affecting prices that are not quite so obvious to the folks in the U.S. The cost of doing business in Canada is higher because of labor costs. In Ontario for example the minimum wage is $10.50 + the employers costs of Canada Pension plan, employment insurance, workers injury compensation plans. That $10.50 expands to quite a bit more. One of the reasons my business is a 'family' business with no outside employees. The Government ALWAYS has a hand in our pockets. But then again, if I were to have to spend a month in the hospital, my family does not go bankrupt trying to pay for it.. And yup it might cost more in Canada, but we're worth it :D