Box top joinery

[Bill Brush]

Hello SMC'ers.

I'm designing a box and I'm somewhat stuck on how to attach the top of it. It's not terribly large, being somwhere in the 14x9 range, and about 3" tall.

Option one - attach it to the top of the box sides, possibly with a rabbet along the edges to give it positive placement. My concern with this option is twofold. Firstly, I have exposed endgrain which is not always the most attractive. Secondly, wood movement may cause issues since it would be glued into place.

Option two - Groove the sides and rabbet the top so that it's flush with the top of the sides. On this option would gluing the top panel in be a bad idea?

Option three - This one could be the hardest to do, but would probably look the best. Do a 45 degree chamfer all around the top edge of the sides, and a matching 45 degree chamfer along the edges of the top. Matched together it would hide all edges. This would require a lot of precision, and I'm not so sure that wood movement wouldn't cause it to just pop the top out at the first change in humidity.

Option more - Don't know, looking for ideas.

I'll probably be using cheap red oak (1/2") for most of this. The box will probably experience a fair amount of travel, being a carrying case, so it needs to be sturdy. The box corners will be box jointed.

[Lee Schierer]

Hello SMC'ers.

I'm designing a box and I'm somewhat stuck on how to attach the top of it. It's not terribly large, being somwhere in the 14x9 range, and about 3" tall.

Option one - attach it to the top of the box sides, possibly with a rabbet along the edges to give it positive placement. My concern with this option is twofold. Firstly, I have exposed endgrain which is not always the most attractive. Secondly, wood movement may cause issues since it would be glued into place.

Wood movement will most likely cause your top to warp or crack

Option two - Groove the sides and rabbet the top so that it's flush with the top of the sides. On this option would gluing the top panel in be a bad idea?

Wood movement will most likely cause your top to warp or crack if you glue it, let the panel float and make is slighly (1/16") undersize on width

Option three - This one could be the hardest to do, but would probably look the best. Do a 45 degree chamfer all around the top edge of the sides, and a matching 45 degree chamfer along the edges of the top. Matched together it would hide all edges. This would require a lot of precision, and I'm not so sure that wood movement wouldn't cause it to just pop the top out at the first change in humidity.

Wood movement will most likely cause your top to warp or crack



You can raise the top panel and it will hide the gap around the edge of the tophttp://www.home.earthlink.net/~us71na/maplebox.jpg

[Jim Rimmer]

185847185846I've done it several ways. Glued to the top and routed edge, separate top attached with hinges, raised panel.
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[Bill Brush]

185847185846I've done it several ways. Glued to the top and routed edge, separate top attached with hinges, raised panel.
185845

Hi Jim. Ever have a problem caused by wood movement?

[Steve Costa]

I'm am starting to PRACTICE building boxes using cheap lumber. From the book I'm reading it suggests that you assemble the entire box, top, bottom & sides. The pupose of this approach is to ensure the lid & the bottom match. When the glue is dried then the approach is to separate the bottom of the box from the top using either a bandssaw of a table saw. I will be using the table saw for this operation. If the box is going to be 3" tall, the sides should be finish cut at 3 1/8" to allow for the table saw blade.

[Jim Rimmer]

Hi Jim. Ever have a problem caused by wood movement?

No, the boxes are small enough that the movement is negligible. Plus finishing on both sides helps some. I did leave the raised panel on the one box floating in the frame, though.

Steve Costa's comment is very good as well. You build a cube and cut the top off. I am now using my bandsaw to separate the lid to reduce the kerf but it limits my box to 6".

Since you're just starting making boxes I would also recommend a DVD from Taunton by Doug Stone called Basic Box Making. He shows several methods and is very thorough. I had made several boxes when I got it and still learned from it.

[Bill Brush]

No, the boxes are small enough that the movement is negligible. Plus finishing on both sides helps some. I did leave the raised panel on the one box floating in the frame, though.

Steve Costa's comment is very good as well. You build a cube and cut the top off. I am now using my bandsaw to separate the lid to reduce the kerf but it limits my box to 6".

Since you're just starting making boxes I would also recommend a DVD from Taunton by Doug Stone called Basic Box Making. He shows several methods and is very thorough. I had made several boxes when I got it and still learned from it.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was dubious that something that small would have a huge amount of movement, but I wasn't sure.

I've made a few boxes already but I used 1/4" walnut veneer ply for a recessed panel. Movement is not a real concern with that.

This is the box I made for my wife for V-day. The carving isn't a stellar example, but it is the first time I've ever tried to do a carving, so I am not too unhappy with it.


185890


I used my home-built box joint jig for this and it seems to work pretty well.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I don't like boxes with cut off lids or boxes with top panels recessed. They collect dust in the corners that's hard to get out. I make box tops with the center panels flush to the frame and glued to a rabbet in the frame, w hich is made like a picture frame. Top panels are made of 1/8 birch ply with 1/8 veneer glued to it. In eight years of doing it this way, I've not had a single failure or even a seam open up. The trick is to use or create plywood and then your panel will be stable. Use a commercial veneer on plywood and you'll have no problem. Using shop sawn veneers is bit more tricky. My boxes have bright, glossy finishes of either lacquer or varnish built up with numerous coats and then polished. So if there is even the slightest movement, the seams would open up, but they do not.

The walnut box below measures 13 x 12" and uses simple construction of mitred and corner splined body and top. The whole thing is basically plywood as it consists of shop sawn veneers glued to either cherry or plywood, which makes for a nice light box that doesn't weigh 20 lbs.

[Bill Brush]

I don't like boxes with cut off lids or boxes with top panels recessed.

I can see about the recessed panels, but what's wrong with cut-off lids?

[Steve Costa]

Jim,

Thanks for the suggestion re: Doug Stowe's DVD. I have 3 of his books plus 4 others on the subject. Working my way through them one at a time. My 2010 Christmas present from the LOML is a one week box making course from Dug Stowe at Marc Adams. Hence the reason for the "practice". I hope to achieve some level of skill which I hope to improve upon at Doug's class. This is something I have been wanting to do for several years!!!!

Steve

[Jim Barstow]

I use an interlocking joint that allows the top to float. I've used it on a bunch of jewelry boxes that get daily use.
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