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View Full Version : What laser would you buy today, knowing all you know?



Jamie Bell
03-06-2011, 2:23 PM
I am just about ready to purchase another laser, and wanted some opinions on which brand to seriously look at. I have an Epilog 75W Helix, but really have never been happy with it. Frankly, I think we just got a lemon here. It does the job, but has been a real pain! We will need a LARGE table, at least 60 W. Side and front doors would be a plus, as we often get asked to do larger pieces. Got some big contracts doing wood, Corian, granite. Possibly some granite headstones (just don't know if I want to go there!), but I'm sure I'll still be doing all my military part etching with the new machine, too.

I really like the 11" Z on my Helix. Don't think I could live without at least 10" of z. Don't think I want to spend more than $22K.

Any opinion would be appreciated. Thank you!

Rodne Gold
03-06-2011, 2:39 PM
I'm possibly bringing in a 1300 x 900 150w Chinese machine , $4900 , well made , and great software - also definitely bringing in a 1200 x 800 80w ($3900) and a 500 x 700 60 w. ($2500). I have seen the 1200 x 800 in action and its wonderful , build quality is good and mnfgr support good as well. Output is as good and a lot better than my "mainstream" machines, 4x the size , 3x the power and 1/3rd the price...
At those prices , they are sort of disposables ... however I'm also bringing in spares ..which are cheap .. like steppers at $46, mainboards $260 , replacement tubes for the 60/80w $200, mirrors $22 , lenses $40, bearings $6
Only really expensive spare is $800 for the spare 150w tube (still debating whether to get that machine)
I paid $4000+ to get a Coherent 30w tube repaired and it lasted only 6 months , I would rather get a new machine for that...

Martin Boekers
03-06-2011, 2:42 PM
Did you buy that one new or used?
If your considering another one then maybe the problems wern't that bad?
In large table what is large to you? 24x36

I have two of the same model 36EXT Legend 75watts that way I am familiar with both lasers
and keep a spare belt, encoder etc as parts fit both machines.

One thing to check is that if the door panels open I believe it changes the "class" of laser
and has to be handled differently.

Keith here is getting a new laser that has some interesting innovations so check with him esp
if you want to do large granite.

Marty

Jamie Bell
03-06-2011, 3:16 PM
Thanks, guys. No, I got the Helix new. We called right away when we had problem after problem in the first few months, but we got nowhere. Oh, well. Cannot change it now. I will not buy another Epilog. Sorry, to anyone listening that might object to that! ;) Marty, no, I think bigger than that table size.
Ron, really??? I was too afraid of the cheap price! As in cheap = poor quality, and what if I need help? Which company did you go with, if I may ask? I wouldn't know where to start on that one. I like those prices better than what I've been seeing! ;)

Bruce Volden
03-06-2011, 3:30 PM
Having seen and attended many promo's from the "leading" mfgr's and money not being an issue----I would hands down look at purchasing a machine from Kern Laser in Wadena MN. Large format and cries out to run and produce.

Bruce

Jamie Bell
03-06-2011, 3:55 PM
Bruce, I will check them out. Thanks!

Rodne Gold
03-06-2011, 4:05 PM
I'm going with a co called shenhuilaser
http://www.shenhuilaser.com.cn
They respond to queries very quickly , nothing seems too much trouble , they offer support with the tech guys via skype.
We are pretty hands on ppl , i service my GCC's mostly myself ,so small tech issues on a laser like that are not a problem. Don't think they a good choice for a sheer laser novice who just wants to push a button and it prints - the driver itself is extremely confgurable , like accelerations , various ramps , backlash compensation . various optimisations for paths etc - I can send you a copy of the machine/software manual if you want. PM me your mail address (its a 15 mb file tho) Integrates directly with Corel , Acad and also has a great design package included - a bit chingrish , but easily understood (like they use the word "bestrew" for array)
Its the same laser as in this thread
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?155522-Very-impressed-with-Chinese-laser-cutter.

Here is the quote I got for the 1200 x 800 , note what comes with

DETAIL INFORMATION OF DC-G1280-80W :
1) LASER CUTTER MACHINE 80WATTS
2) SIZE OF CUTTING AREA 1200MMX800MM
3) COLOR BLUE AND LIGHT GREY
4) CUTTING TABLE TYPE ALUMINIUM KNIFE BLADES AND HONEYCOMB (note both tables)
5) HIGH GRADE COOLING SYSTEM CW-5000 AC220V (upgraded chiller)
6) WATER PUMP
7) AIR COMPRESSOR
8) 2X150MM FLEXIBLE EXHAUST OUTLET PIPE
9) 2X100MM FLEXIBLE EXHAUST OUTLET PIPE
10) ALL INLET AND OUTLET WATER PIPES
11) POWER LEAD WIRE
12) EARTH WIRE AND PEG
13) 1XEXTRA 80WATT LASER TUBE (note EXTRA tube)
14) 1XEXTRA ZESE LENS
15) 2XEXTRA MOLYBDENUM REFLECTING MIRRORS
16) RED DOT POSITIONING SYSTYME ACROSS THE MIRRORS
17) EXHAUST BLOWER FAN 600 WATT
18) SOFTWARE INSTALLATION CD
19) OPERATING/MAINTAINANCE/SERVICE MANUAL
20) SPANNER AND TOOLS SET
21) PAPER FOR ADJUSTING LASER LIGHT WAY
22) USB CONTROL LINE
23) EXTRA POWER SUPPLY UNIT FOR 80WATT LASER
24) SILICONE
25) MOTORIZED UP AND DOWN CUTTING TABLE
$4400

Im ordering about another $500 worth of spares - a bit overkill , but what the heck..
Heres prices for smaller machines

SH-G350-50W"Laser cutting/engraving machine FOB Qingdao price is USD1700. 300x350
SH-G460-50W" Laser cutting/engraving machine FOB Qingdao price is USD2200. 400x500mm
SH-G570-50W"Laser cutting/engraving machine FOB Qingdao price is USD2500. 500x 700
SH-G690-60W" FOB Qingdao price is USD3000. (900 x 600mm)

All of the machine equip with:
Adjusting*worktale,*can*be*up*and*down*250mm
Red*dot*pointer;
USB*offline*working;
LCD*Panel;
Water*protection*system;
Use*coreldraw*AutoCAD*


1300 x 900 with 150w tube was $4900

Lady to speak to is

yanblanca@yahoo.com

Worth a look IMO

Mike Null
03-06-2011, 4:22 PM
Given the results I've gotten with my Trotec I'd have a hard time going anyplace else for a new machine. I'm finishing my 4th year with zero down time and no replacement parts. It's hard to top perfection. The prices have dropped dramatically since I bought mine as well.

Dan Hintz
03-06-2011, 5:23 PM
If I had to do it again? I'd look more heavily at Trotec...

Jamie Bell
03-06-2011, 5:36 PM
Thanks for all that info, Rodney! I know my husband was very interested in the Trotec, too. Of course, he insisted we get the Epilog! Hee hee. Seriously, they are in the top 3 of our list. Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate these boards!

Bill Cunningham
03-06-2011, 8:30 PM
I will have to buy a new machine in a couple of years, and like Rodney says, the current prices of 'good' Chinese machines do make them a disposable unit. So if it goes down in 2, 3, or 4 years, so what, it will have paid for itself many, many, times over by that time. I will keep the current Epilog in running condx as a stand by. But who knows, the price of Epilogs may start dropping. U.S. made lasers have certainly come down in price, and WAY up in quality over the last 20 years. That's why I own one now.. I like the Epilog, because it's been dependable, and if it goes down (and it has) Epilog has made sure the parts were in my hands, ASAP. Sometimes less than 24 hours, and their 3000 miles away from me (in another country), and this is always a plus for brand loyalty.

Keith Outten
03-07-2011, 8:06 AM
Jamie,

Another option for you to consider is the large format machines sold by APLazer.
You can easily move away from the pack when you can engrave items of just about any size when the cabinet isn't the limiting factor. I can engrave a company logo in a piece of glass that is ten foot square or engrave on a marble floor in a facility with my machine. There is a lucrative market engraving granite memorials and these machines are perfect for engraving 800 pound pieces of stone.

Check out their web site and watch the videos before you decide.
.

David Fairfield
03-07-2011, 8:41 AM
Jamie, based on your requirements, I'd look at a Kern. When I have the money, I'd look at one, too. But to answer the initial question, I would probably buy another Epilog. Lemons aside, I think every machine has a plus and minus side; its up to the operateor to exploit the plusses and work around the minuses. I don't want to relearn how to do that with a different machine.

Dave

Rodne Gold
03-07-2011, 9:17 AM
Keith, how are you finding the resolution of the 100w tube?
i saw the new gen glass tubes, but a 150w one I wanted is quite pricey - $1800 so I have decided to go for a 1200x800 80w with a $200 tube...and a 600x900 60w (for fine work) the 80w tube does show a little weakness when lettering gets to 2-3mm or so and you inspect with a 10x loupe..spot size is about 1.5x the size of my 30w synrad's...and very small stuff isnt as good albeit i do think the engaving can be further optimised by using shorter lenses and fine tuning the frequency and bidirectional firing.
As a matter of interest, what is the pricing on your model . Prolly a lot more than the pricing I was quoted - more than double?

Dan Hintz
03-07-2011, 10:07 AM
Rodney,

I think you'll find that as the power gets up into the range you're looking at, the beam quality (M) is going to go down pretty quickly on the glass tubes... no amount of inexpensive optics can correct that.

Rodne Gold
03-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Yeh , seems to be the case, mnfgr recommended the lower power tubes for quality and smaller machines for speedier engraving. i was probably being a little anal with a 10x loupe and 2-3mm (8pt I think) times roman text , its almost unreadable even with the best engraving beam quality - I also ran at almost maximum speed and at the far end of the machine , furthest from where the beam originates.

Dan Hintz
03-07-2011, 11:41 AM
I do 8 point text all of the time (logos and such), and once in a while 6 point stuff... even the 6 point is pretty crisp if I'm careful with my settings, but the 8 point is always crisp (assuming a good substrate, like anodized aluminum). If you're not able to get good 8 point text out of your tubes, you're not seeing what's possible with a good beam quality.

Oh, and I'm using the standard 2" lens... if I went with the HPDFO option, my lower limit would drop easily to 5 point, possibly even 4 point (haven't tried that).

EDIT: Also be aware that glass tubes aren't typically going to have the same level of beam quality that a sealed metal tube will. Not a knock on glass tubes, it's just that sealed metal allows closer tolerance matching or mirror angle/distance. If you go with a high-powered glass tube, you're knocking yourself twice on beam quality, once with the lack of precision, possibly a second time with the power (though the power really isn't an issue with beam quality until you start getting close to the 4-500W mark where beam mode moves beyond TEM00).

Scott Shepherd
03-07-2011, 12:38 PM
I have a job I do frequently that's 3 pt letters, lowercase, and I do it with our 2.0 lens. I've done about 50,000-60,000 of them.

Rodne Gold
03-07-2011, 1:46 PM
You guys are lucky , examining 3pt lower case text with a 10x loupe (its like 0.5mm high) , even with my Synrad tube and 1.5" lens , it looks pretty spotty...especially times roman which has serifs. Doesnt bother me much tho , if you examine a printed pic at 10x , you also see the dots. I can live with a 1200x 800 80w machine at $4.4k that only goes as low as 2mm text without it becoming a blob.

Dan Hintz
03-07-2011, 1:49 PM
I don't know, Rodney... I'm not sure I've ever tried 3 point unless it was in a graphic, so don't be so quick to assume I get the same quality as Steve. Steve also has the collimator on his machine, which is half of the HPDFO kit... even if he uses the same lens as me, he still has a small leg up. One of these days I'll have to try it and see what I can do.

Scott Shepherd
03-07-2011, 1:59 PM
I haven't seen any difference, with or without the collimator. We had the job before the collimator and we still do the job. I can't see any difference.

Rodne Gold
03-07-2011, 2:52 PM
I reckon I would get much better results at 3 pt if I were only to vector engrave it with my GCC's , cant see my improving it with raster type engraving , spot size is 1/300th's of an inch and the wisdom is to "engrave" with a cutter about 1/7th the width of the height of the letter - at 1/50th of an inch , the spot size is about 1/6th as wide as the letter height. I also have collimators in my machines , also didn't notice any better spot size before and after - tho the colimators did even out power variances across the table- ie made the beam more consistent no matter how far from the final optic it had to travel.

Ross Moshinsky
03-07-2011, 5:18 PM
If you have to buy one machine, I think a 30W name brand machine is the way to go. Yes they are limiting to some degree, but if you pick the right materials, they can be real work horses. Yes, they cost as much as an 80watt large format Chinese machine, but the durability and reliability makes them worth it in a lot of ways. If your business is strong enough, then adding a 80-120W Chinese machine is a wise choice. Using it for jobs where you need the power or table size can get you jobs you might have not otherwise been able to get with the 30W machine.

I know doing Corian on my 30W laser is not worth it. It's just too slow. With 80W, I could do the job in a third of the time which would make it worth it. I also know my abilities to vector cut various materials is limited due to table size and wattage. Doing awards, I rarely find the table size or wattage to be a real hindrance though. Doesn't take much to raster acrylic, plastics, or coated steel/aluminum.