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Nick Adams
01-22-2005, 11:30 PM
New Laser Purchase questions.

I am currently working for an awards shop. They currently offer standard plaques and trophies....some gift items.

I will be purchasing a laser in under 1 month. Most likely in 2 weeks. However i thought i would ask a question or two..just to see what type of answers i recieve.

I would like to start out by saying you alll (SMC) have a great forum and community here. I have been reading for a few weeks now and love it.

ok now to the fun? part =)

I called ESI(Laser Pro), Sign Warehouse(Pinnacle), Universal, Epilog, and xentech.
I stated that I required information on thier offerings and that i would be making the purchase of a laser in 1 month. I called all companies before 12pm in thier respective time zones.

ESI(Laser Pro), and Sign Warehouse(Pinnacle) {same lasers} Sent me information within 2 weeks of my call <12(esi) and 13(SW) days> Not bad

Epilog ~ Recieved a priority package in 2 days with tons of samples.
On top of this they sent me information about my regional sales office. AND
I recieved a call from that office 1 week to the day of me requesting the materials.

Universal ~ I recieved a product brochure 46 days from the date of my call. It was without any samples. It braged about thier service! All US MADE! Thier service just getting me a booklet was crap. I marked them off my list after 21 days anyway. If they cant get me a booklet they doubtfully will be able to get me service.

Xentech ~ Well I am not pleased. I requested the information, but never recieved it. Not sure what to think about them.

Ok so first test past by all but Xentech and Universal. Those two are done.

So im looking to find out who to get a product demo from. I know my epilog dealer is only 4 hours away. So i call him ..Set up a time and we take a look at thier machine in my store. Works great, impressed with the mechanics of the unit. Size fit function all seem great. Salesman didnt try to get me into buying one that day, he was only there to show me the unit and let me run some products through. Great guy , no normal BS salesman. Showed me the pros and cons of the unit.

I call signwarehouse.com they cant seem to give me anyone in my area. And esi didnt seem to interested in showing thier unit off. No problem we can deal with that later.

I had some work done by a local universal user and it wasnt all that great. They were even nice enough to allow me to check out the machine and run a product through it. Universal V300 35 watt i believe with a driver that doesnt allow complete control. Yet another mark against them.



Ok so enough about impressions. What i request from this wonderful community is a suggestion. I know the products that isnt something we really need to get into. But rather Which machine would you buy.

Xentech
Universal
Epilog
Laserpro/Pinnacle

My current price range is up to 24000$ (US) Central Indiana is my location.
My Wattage Required is 45 watt and a bed size of no less then 12x24, Sheet stock. I need a cutting grid, rotary attachment, dust / smoke extraction fan and stand if not equiped with one (or a deduction of 595$ on the price of comparable machine with a stand.)

I have a quote from my epilog rep. His price is under that for a 24ex 45watt
rotary attach, vector grid, stand and exhaust fan.

Thanks in advance for an suggestions why I should choose or look into any of the other systems.

Nick Adams
01-22-2005, 11:31 PM
Sorry about that, for a first post that was long winded.

Keith Outten
01-23-2005, 8:00 AM
Nick,

I really like your system. I wish I had been as organized when I was in the market to purchase my laser engraver. I don't think the outcome would have been any different but I would have felt better about my selection process :)

From a consumer point of view I know that when you are considering spending over $20,000.00 you expect the manufacturer to be responsive in the same way you would expect an automobile dealer to support the sale and warranty periods. Although it isn't a hard rule it is a good indication of the service you can expect after the sale when you will need their help the most and time is critical.

I think that Roy, Stan, Rodney and many others have all expressed views concerning many of the technical aspects of the selection process and issues that are all pertinent in making a choice that suits your overall needs. Since I have only purchased one machine I'm afraid that my opinion isn't very valuable, I can only say that after three years I am still reasonably pleased with my machine, its value and reliability. I also have confidence when I accept a job that I will be able to deliver on-time based on a proven track record. When the day comes that I get in a real bind I will expect to receive prompt support and I am willing to pay for that level of service.

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"

Gary Shoemake
01-23-2005, 9:50 AM
HI Nick

I have a Pinnacle( Laserpro) from Signwarehouse and it's great a very sound machine. I have had it over a year and I'm still learning the things it can do. My machine is a Mercury model and it's quite a work horse. If you would like to talk about it email me and I will give you my phone # and I'll try to answer any questions. I'm not a dealer just a satisfied customer.

Keith was right, I'm sure that when Rodney Gold, Roy Brewer and others that has vast expertise will weigh in with their opinions. I strongly suggest that you look carefully at their responses there's a lot of great info there.


Best of luck

Gary SHoemake

Ken Frisby
01-23-2005, 10:50 AM
From my experience, you can't go wrong with an Epilog.

I did my homework before buying an Epilog...I actually was able to find various shops that had all of the machines you mention and ran samples on most of them. Some were better than others.

After talking to the various owners about support and what to expect if you had a problem. Epilog seemed to get the best marks. Two weeks ago I had an X motor fail on a friday afternoon, I called Epilog and I had a replacement before 9am the next day. (a saturday no less). On monday morning the tech called to make sure that the problem was fixed, now that is what I call great service.

Also the Epilog is by far the fastest of all the lasers I evaluated and the quality is as good as it gets.

Would I buy from epilog again? You bet I would.

Ted Shrader
01-23-2005, 11:28 AM
Nick -

Welcome to Saw Mill Creek. Glad you introduced yourself. Be sure to visit the other fine forums here.

You have really done your homework. Sorry that I can't help you with your laser selection, but others here can.

Ted

Rodne Gold
01-23-2005, 11:46 AM
Buy the one you have had best service from and in your post there is only one that has been at all compliant with what I would call service. You wont go wrong with any of the machines , they all do more or less the same thing. Just one thing , I think you can get more potency for what you are spending wattage and size wise.

Nick Adams
01-23-2005, 3:44 PM
Thanks for your quick replies. The bank didnt call saturday so i expect to know monday when my purchase date will be. Id love to hear from any others that have had problems or great success on the machines listed.

You guys (and gals) are great people. Very greatful that I have found a solid and well educated WW forum (even if i am a novice at ww) =)

I will be checking back for any other thoughts later this afternoon.

Jessica Hoffpauir-Freeman
01-24-2005, 11:43 AM
Hi Nick,
My name is Jessica with Xenetech. First, please let me apologize, but I can not find where you have requested information from us. I have searched hi and lo and have come up with nothing. Did you request information from our website?
If you are still interested, may we please send you our 2005 systems and accessories catalog and get you in touch with your area Xenetech distributor and schedule a demonstration? You will not be sorry. I think you will be pleased with our distributor, our system, software and their quality.
I am sincerely very sorry and want you to know that we pride ourselves with providing the best possible customer service and it is not like us to be non-responsive.
Thanks for giving us another chance.
Sincerely,
Jessica Hoffpauir-Freeman
Xenetech Global, Inc.
Baton Rouge, LA
(225) 752-0225 ext 301

Nick Adams
01-24-2005, 12:35 PM
Jessica,

Sure, I would be happy to look over your product offerings. I only have about a week maybe two to get the ball rolling before i run out my personal window of purchasing.

nick@newtech-computers.com is my email. Email me and i will send you my number and shipping/mailing address. Thanks Again.

Roy Brewer
01-25-2005, 2:26 AM
Nick,

Seems like several are expecting me to "weigh in" on this. I relate to Rodne's post (the shortest we've ever seen from him!); while each system has its pros & cons, they all do basically the same thing.

Sounds like your decision is pretty much made, but if that decision is extended:

1. If you know what you plan to do, ask for at least samples (if not actual demo) with the artwork you provide and on the substrates in which you are most interested.

2. eMail the reps of the companies you are still considering at least a couple times and see how responsive they are.

3. whittle it down to two and then ask each rep "why should I buy yours over brand X?"

I can tell you're going to enjoy this venture, and we look forward to your contributions!

Jerry Allen
01-26-2005, 10:09 AM
my experience--
I just purchased a Mercury from Signwarehouse. Their price was great and the service has been excellent. My vector cutting table was slightly warped on receiving it and they replaced it 2nd day air with a free return shipping lable. Signwarehouse/Pinnacle does not have local reps, they are a rep/distributor/store. They sell a lot of other products as well.
I am very pleased with the quality of my Pinnacle/GCC/Laserpro Mercury.
I have heard nothing but good things about Epilog and I think the superior quality of their website reflects their commitment to quality. However, being on a tight budget I was concerned with price and knew that Pinnacle was a decent machine. I have not regreted my decision, although I initially was concerned that 25 watts was too weak. I have had no trouble cutting and engraving 1/4" Baltic birch ply, oak, acrylic (and of course thinner stuff). If there is a next time, I will probably go for 40-60 watts because if a little is enough, then too much is even better.
Kevin Huffman who hangs out here is a Signwarehouse tech, and could probably answer many of your questions including who to talk to at Signwarehouse.

Kevin Huffman
01-26-2005, 3:33 PM
Hey Nick,
My name is Kevin, I am one of the techs over here at Signwarehouse (Pinnacle). Sorry I haven't been on that much. I have been reading just not relying (feel'n under the weather a bit). I can't seem to get over this cold.
But anyways, Unfortuanatly we do not have any local reps. We are centrally located in Denison Texas.
I am sorry we don't have any customers in your location, usually we do and they are more than glad to show the machine and talk to other customers.
There is a lot of good info to be had from here @ SMC.
If you have any questions about our machines don't hesistate to post or give me a call. Especially if we make it into the last round of the competition and we get to attend they "Why X over Y?" fight. LoL

1-800-966-1783x2751

Mike Mackenzie
01-26-2005, 4:33 PM
Nick,

I was disturbed to read what had happened with the literature and follow up with the Universal laser systems.

I am just a representative in a different part of the U.S. however I was not happy to see this and I personally wanted to find out what happened so I did some investigating.

This is what I found out!

The Literature request was submitted via the website on or around Mid Dec 2004. The follow up and information was sent out the following week as well as your contact information to the local representative. The lead and your information was received by the local rep the same week. Due to the Christmas and New year Holidays there was probably some delay. There is a response noted in the data base that in fact the local rep called you on the week between christmas and new years 2004. You asked about leasing and they gave you that information. You had then informed them that you would be contacting them when you were ready.

They then did a follow up call Mid January 2005 and you informed them that you were still waiting for the response from your bank and that you would contact them if you were interested in getting the system.

The reason for this reply is to say that this is not how Universal works they respond as quickly as possible to prospective customers and there requests. Sometimes things can happen that are completely out of there control ( holiday's)

How ever if you do the math, from the records we have the process did not take 46 Day's in fact from the date you requested the information to the date the local rep contacted you was only 15 day's.

If you don't like the Universal Laser system thats fine there are other brands that will do the same things and thats why we live in the USA "freedom of choice".

I just don't think it is necessary to post incorrect information about the Universal system or the representative in fact about anything. These forums are for gathering information and techniques not system bashing.

I wish you the best of luck with what ever system you end up purchasing.

Nick Adams
01-26-2005, 9:49 PM
Mike,

If you read the initial post it says that i called each person. Which I did. And requested Information at that time. Im sorry that I confussed the database or records by later deciding to request info from your website since i hadnt recieved any information at that time.



The Literature request was submitted via the website on or around Mid Dec 2004.
Yep...

The follow up and information was sent out the following week as well as your contact information to the local representative. The lead and your information was received by the local rep the same week. Due to the Christmas and New year Holidays there was probably some delay. Correct..

There is a response noted in the data base that in fact the local rep called you on the week between christmas and new years 2004. You asked about leasing and they gave you that information. You had then informed them that you would be contacting them when you were ready. Right on again!


They then did a follow up call Mid January 2005 and you informed them that you were still waiting for the response from your bank and that you would contact them if you were interested in getting the system. I remember her calling me. Very nice lady she was.


The reason for this reply is to say that this is not how Universal works they respond as quickly as possible to prospective customers and there requests. Sometimes things can happen that are completely out of there control ( holiday's)

How ever if you do the math, from the records we have the process did not take 46 Day's in fact from the date you requested the information to the date the local rep contacted you was only 15 day's.
I can respect that. It is nice of you to check into these things. Just try not to accuse the customer when indeed they did do exactly as stated.

I appriciate the phone call, email, and information on the xenetech systems. Jessica Hoffpauir-Freeman you were very pleasent and quick to sent out the info! Sadly due to a smaller bed, and a tad higher price I honestly can't afford your laser systems. However the owner of the company has been checking out some of your rotary engraver systems! No clue as to how soon they would be looking at one. I will contact you if they see a need for an upgrade in the future.

Back on subject.
Mike..This isn't a personal attack on you or ULS. If I wasn't seriously looking at the purchase of a ULS i wouldnt have requested information both by phone and then later through the website. However, as you were trying to clear the record..I am also required to.

You and others have been nothing but helpful and supportive to the laser community, and for that I have nothing but respect for you and this community of people(SMC).

As it stands I will most likely be going with Epilog. Based on the semi local rep. (Valpo, IN) being a no bs kinda person. However tomarrow I will be calling Each and asking why your system over xx system and it is possible that it might change my thinking.

I would like to thank SMC again for providing such a valuable source of information. And the community of SMC members that share and help openly thier tricks, picks, trials, and tribulations!

Mike Mackenzie
01-26-2005, 10:36 PM
I am not accusing anyone I just don't think it was fair to say the things that were stated not just about the time frame with the information but also regarding drivers and systems being used for testing purposes. ULS does not have a V300 model.

Nick Adams
01-26-2005, 11:11 PM
I am sorry for the mixup. Just looked up the product number. It was the VL-300. I have also used a M-360.