Handcut dovetails

[Staffan Hamala]

I've been making a few dovetailed drawers and boxes lately. To get some inspiration and maybe a few hints and tips, I decided to watch all my videos of dovetail making. I watched one yesterday and the other two today. It was really interesting to watch Rob Cosman, David Charlesworth, and finally Frank Klausz make dovetails. I've watched all videos before, but not all in a row like now.

I'm very fascinated by the different techniques.

Cosman saws the tails first. Marks them before sawing, using a dovetail marker. He transfers marks with a marking knife, balancing the tail board on the pin board (secured in the vice) with the other end of the board resting on a plane on its side. He's very methodical and accurate. He's confident enough not to test fit before glue-up.

Charlesworth also saws the tails first. Uses Bob Wearings transfer jig to mark the tails accurately. He saws using a band saw. He checks everything extremely carefully. By the time he's assembling the joint, every last bit of wood in the corners have been removed, and the fit is perfect. He's a fascinating person. Thoughtful, and won't hurry at all. Appears to be completely un-stressed, which is unusual in today's world.

Klausz saws the pins first. He doesn't measure, just saws by eye. Then he marks the tails from the pin-board using a pencil (not a marking knife like the others). After sawing all four drawer sides, he applies glue, and assembles the drawer. He doesn't check the fit before applying the glue. The glue faces are fitted sawcut to sawcut. His approach feels like the old fashioned, practical way to do it. In the days before electrical lighting, there was a need to get things done without so much lighting.

The best thing is this: all of them produce good looking, tight fitting dovetails.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I was wondering if I should get the Charlesworth and Klausz videos, and now I believe I will. I have Jim Kingshott's DT video, and would like to see some other techniques. I don't know why, but Cosman just rubs me the wrong way. I can't put my finger on it, but I'll probably pass on his stuff.

[tico vogt]

I agree about David Charlesworth's vibe. Slow down, focus, check your work. Pay attention to your body's relationship to the tools and develop proper stances. He brings an engineer's analytical mind to the process of woodworking, and you learn so much more than just cutting dovetails from observing his approach.

Agree also about being rubbed the wrong way by Rob Cosman, accomplished as he is. There is a noted lack of humility, an attitude.

[Matt Winterowd]

I just took a handcut dovetails class from Jim Tolpin and Tim Lawson at the Port Townsend School of Woodworking. It was very helpful because of all the subtleties they can address in person. They give you feedback on your grip, how to get the best results with your tools, and most importantly they can see the small errors introduced by your your technique that you can't really identify from your own perspective.

To your point about different styles, as you may have seen Jim has recently converted to primarily hand tool work, and he basically took his very analytical approach to problem-solving and applied it to learning hand tool efficiency. He teaches tails first, but acknowledges that it's ultimately an arbitrary decision and you should do what feels easiest to you. His overall approach is much closer to Charlesworth, although he does demonstrate and teach the Klausz style freehand method as well.

I really enjoyed the class, and Jim and Tim are really great guys. I would highly recommend a weekend session at their school. They also periodically host classes by the likes of Garrett Hack, Mike Wenzloff, Chris Schwartz, Michael Dresdner, and others. Plus Port Townsend is a really nice weekend getaway town.

No affiliation, just a happy student. http://www.ptwoodschool.com/Home.html

[Bob Warfield]

I also have the videos from Cosman, Charlsworth, and Klaus. I find all 3 facinating. Of the 3, I personally like Rob Cosman's the best. Just seems to me that he explains everything in a way that's easier for me to understand. I really love to watch Frank Klaus and yes he is definately old school, and very accurate in his work. Of all 3, David Charlesworth is the most precise and methodical. I just really have a hard time staying awake while watching him. I would highly reccomend any of them.
Thanks,
Bob Warfield

[Pam Niedermayer]

After I cut and joined my first dovetailed joint, about 30 years ago, it seemed clear that from a joint strength standpoint it didn't much matter where the first end was cut since the corresponding end was marked from the first. From that point on I've done dovetails like Klausz, except tails first since I can gang cut two or three tail ends. It's incredibly easy for people to bisect a line, so when cutting the tails, I bisect then offset the cuts.

Also, it's easier to cut multiple in a single direction, so I cut all one way, then come back for the other way.

Pam

[Zach England]

Which Charlesworth DVD are people talking about? I can't find one of his that deals with dovetails.

[Staffan Hamala]

Which Charlesworth DVD are people talking about? I can't find one of his that deals with dovetails.

His fifth DVD, Chisel Techniques for Precision Joinery.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Agree also about being rubbed the wrong way by Rob Cosman, accomplished as he is. There is a noted lack of humility, an attitude.
That might be it. What drew me to Mr. Kingshott is his quiet confidence. He was master, he knew he was a master, and he knew he didn't have to tell you that.

[Don Dorn]

Not familiar with the Charlesworth method, but have used both the Cosman and Klausz method. It's probably because I learned using Franks method, it's the one I gravitate to. I really got used to doing it by eye and it's much faster - however if doing them for presentation, I'll lay them out and either method works well. Have to admit though - the divider trick makes short work of having them set perfectly.

[Rick Erickson]

I'm with Bob on this one. I'm on the Cosman camp although I admire DCs 'slowness' because I seem to rush through everything. Not sure why Cosman rubs people the wrong way. I've taken several hands on classes from him and can honestly say I have NEVER met someone who pours so much heart and soul and effort into teaching people. When you sign up for one of his classes it isn't your typical 8am - 5pm class. It is 8am - 10pm (and sometimes longer). He will outwork you in every class and will stay to the end to make sure you 'get it'. Anyways, you've got to appreciate the skill of all of these woodworkers. They are fascinating to watch.

[john brenton]

There is definitely something lame about Cosman...the guy is selling a product and appealing to a certain crowd. You feel like a sap just watching him.

That being said, he does have something to impart. You take a little from this guy, a little from that guy, and practice until you have your own way, just like with everything.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I just ordered the Charlesworth DVD, thanks to Staffan for the push. I would have gotten the Klausz drawer making one as well...but I was pushing the limit for cash already. I have boxes coming from LN and LV this week. I probably shouldn't have ordered so much stuff, but I just couldn't help it!

[Tom McMahon]

Just a thought but what I think this thread is talking about is personality. You need to find a method of working that matches your own personality. I'm more of an abstract expressionist type of guy, working like Charlesworth would drive me nuts, so I work more like Klausz, I don't really care if the tails are perfectly spaced. Random spaced tails would drive some others nuts but I like it. I don't like dove tails to look like they were cut with a jig, but that just me.

[Jim Neeley]

I think you're dead-on, Tom.. While I'm new in the neanderworld, I've done a fair amount with p*wer tools, especially r*uters and with them, there's usually several ways to get there... all work yet opinions on what's best are very strong.

Of course, as we all know, the only disagreeable people are those that disagree with me!! :D

[Mark Baldwin III]

I just got done watching the Charlesworth DVD. It's excellent! There is a lot of information, and tons of little tips and tid-bits. As a side note, I really appreciate that there was very little effort put into selling anything in the video. He mentions (and recommends) the Lie-Nielsen chisels by name in the beginning of the video, but that's it. Kudos to Mr. Charlesworth and Lie-Nielsen for a well made and educational video!