What did I get? - Plane identification request

[Bill Brush]

This may turn out to be one of those newbie mistakes, or it may turn into a tool gloat, I don't know.

I saw a Craigslist posting for a business shutting down and selling off their tools, and one of the items listed was hand planes.

So I trekked on over and bought what he had left.

I think what I have is about a #5 jack plane, and maybe a #4 smoother, but those are pure guesses on my part. They look to be in decent shape after I removed the thick layer of dust, and the totes tightened right up.

The 1st, is a Millers Falls, and I think it's the jack plane. It's about 14" long but has no size number on it like my Bailey plane. It has a corrugated sole. Presumably the iron is original as it is stamped with "Millers Falls Tools 1868 - Made in USA". I don't know what angle the frog is, but it matches the angle on the Bailey I have (it's a #8.)

The 2nd is a Hercules brand (also made in the USA). It's about 10" long. It has one number on it, just in front of the throat, which is 1409. The angle on this one is steeper than the Millers Falls, which leads me to suspect it's a smoother. The camber on the iron is also very fine. It has a smooth sole.

I took my square with me on the shopping trip and checked the soles on both of them and they're both very flat.

So for $15 each, did I get a deal or did I get taken? :)

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[John Toigo]

My opinion only Bill - you got good news & bad news. That's a Millers Falls #14 and it has the articulated lever cap. It's a medium old one judging by the handle. Should clean up into a nice user and be an asset to you shop. The other one, judging by the blade, is one of Sargent's off brands. Some hercules planes are ok - some are iffy. Clean it up, tune it & sharpen the blade & see how it is. Might be a user, might be a decoration. The #14 is worth what you paid for both.

[Alfred Kraemer]

It seems both planes can be reconditioned since their bodies aren't too badly rusted. The Millers Falls is - I think the better deal - despite the little chunk broken from the side near the handle. That's not the worst place for a chunk to break off. I don't know if you have taken off the frog yet and inspected/cleaned that.
The Hercules is definitely a lower quality brand/version. It seems the way the handle is shaped/finished is a good indicator of the overall quality of the older planes.
The handle was the first thing I noticed, the next feature that indicates a lower quality plane is the way the frog is attached/adjustable. Quite different from the Millers Falls.
Nevertheless, if you tune both planes well and the irons are good you should end up with a couple of good planes.

Alfred

[Bill Brush]

Thanks guys. After posting this I did some web searching and found out essentially what you've just confirmed. I found a site that told me where to look for the size on the Millers Falls plane, and it was there once I took a little steel wool to it. It's a 14C, and based on what I've found was made between '49 and '55. It's basically a peer of the #8 Bailey I rescued from the dump pile when my grandparents house was cleaned out. The 14C is the exact analog to the Stanley #5, so it's exactly what I need.

Hopefully I can get the 1409 in working condition as I could really use it. Oddly enough I was intending to build a sharpening jig for my planes today anyway, and now I have 2 more patients.

[Bob Stroupe]

I don’t mean to be discouraging but I've got a Craftsman branded Sargent Hercules #4. I haven't fettled it yet, because I found there is about 1" or so of bed underneath the frog. So if you want to move the frog forward to tighten the throat you’re probably going to have to put a shim between the blade and the bed or just buy a thick enough blade that the frog won’t need to be adjusted. Also the leading edge of the bed right behind the mouth is a raised machined surface. This leaves about a 1/2" depression between this raised machine surface and the frog making it a real pain getting these two areas lined up.
Besides that and a whole lot of play in the depth adjustment it seems to be decently constructed.

[john brenton]

That hercules looks all caddywhompus in both pics. Hopefully its just the frog, or some kind of optical illusion.

[Bill Brush]

Well after some cleaning, and a little work with the new sharpening jig I'm very pleased with my purchase. I grabbed a random bit of cedar left from an Adirondack chair I made last summer, and the jack plane was taking off .011" shavings one-handed. The smoothing plane zipped off some .002" shavings without a complaint also. Switching to pine the smoother was doing .0015" shavings.

After working the irons on these it really makes me wonder how hard the iron is on that #8. Compared to that thing both of these irons sharpened at light-speed.

[Jim Koepke]

Compared to that thing both of these irons sharpened at light-speed.

Soft steel sharpens faster. It will also get dull faster.


the jack plane was taking off .011" shavings one-handed.

I am not sure that I have taken a shaving that thick with both hands and a mule.

jtk

[Bill Brush]

For an entry level plane that Hercules does a passable job. I gave it a real test run last night. At the end of the test it looked like this:
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