220v or even 20a 110 from the ceiling question????

[Tom Hildebrand]

I'm having an electrician comming today. I was a the store getting a bunch of supplies for the project yesterday. I wanted to run a 220 and a 110 down from the ceiling on a recoiling type exstension.

The electrician in the store said there is no recoiling mechanism at their big box store for that kind of use. Only light stuff. Commercial units would be very very expensive.

I know some of you have this configuration. What do you use to come down from the ceiling? Mine is 11 feet high.j I don't want a permanent cord hanging down either. The shop is in my garage so it needs to be high enough to be out of the way.

thanks

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

On Amazon: Reelcraft LD2030-143-9 Spring Driven Cord Reel with 30-Feet of 14/3 Cord - should be good enough for 15A (14/3 cord), but not 20A (would need 12)

Grizzly H5695 Cord Reel 12awg x 40' - should be good for 20A

Check out http://www.reelcraft.com/pdfs/catalogs/pages/cat38.pdf

[John McClanahan]

Rockler has one, too. Keep in mind you will have something hanging from the 11' ceiling, otherwise it will be out of reach.

John

[Ole Anderson]

As long as the extension cord is heavy enough for the amperage needed, I would think you can wire the reel for 220 and change out the plug to a 220v only version. I am sure you will be limited to 20 amps if you can find a 12 gauge cable version.

But even looking at this version from Grainger http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Cord-Reel-1TRC3?Pid=search it is nearly $400 and still rated for only 15 amps even with 12 gauge cable (probably due to the use of a 15 amp rated plug).

If you can reach the end of the cord from a reel, you can reach the end of a permanent cord. I have just the end of an extension cord hanging down from my shop ceiling for my planer, it is out of the way until I need it. Yes it is 110 v but could easily be wired to 220.

Edit: I would go with the Grizzly model referenced in The above post, it as under $70. Just update the plug on either end to a 20 amp 110 or a 20 amp 220. I wouldn't use it for a 5 hp TS, but it should be ok for 1.75 hp 110 or 3 hp 220 motor.

[Jim Neeley]

I'm having an electrician comming today. I was a the store getting a bunch of supplies for the project yesterday. I wanted to run a 220 and a 110 down from the ceiling on a recoiling type exstension.

The electrician in the store said there is no recoiling mechanism at their big box store for that kind of use. Only light stuff. Commercial units would be very very expensive.

I know some of you have this configuration. What do you use to come down from the ceiling? Mine is 11 feet high.j I don't want a permanent cord hanging down either. The shop is in my garage so it needs to be high enough to be out of the way.

thanks

Tom,

As long as you are talking home-style (single phase) 220V/240V AC power, do not need larger than a 20A breaker and the device has a 3-prong (3 hot + 1 ground) plug then a reel such as the Grizzly H5695 with the plugs on each end swapped to meet 240V/20A or less service will be safe and meet the requirements of the National Electric Code.

Should you want to consider other brands and models, here's what you are looking for:


3 conductor, 12 gauge wire (commonly called 3c/#12; this should be stamped into the wire)
The "body" of the reel cannot have any built-in receptacles. The power must only go from the plug in cord to the receptacle on the extendable portion.
It should have a UL, FM or other OSHA-approved "listing".
The plug and receptacle should look like one of those in the first 4 columns of row 5 of http://www.hubbell-canada.com/wiring/bryant/pdf/b/b5.pdf
There should be a cord coming out from the reel to plug it in to the wall; it should not have the plug molded into the case.
You must replace both ends of the reel with your choice of 240V,15A or 20A plugs/receptacles. For standard non-locking plugs they would look like the first 4 columns of row 6 in the above link.

If you are concerned with the tool cord coming unplugged from the reel's recptacle due to the tension in the cord and are willing to change the plug on your tool(s), you may wish to use locking plugs and receptacles with the once shown in the first 4 columns of row L6 on http://www.hubbell-canada.com/wiring/bryant/pdf/h/h3.pdf. These plugs function like standard plugs except they are larger in diameter and you insert the plug and twist to "lock" it in place.

When looking at those diagrams they at first seem confusing but it becomes much simpler when you realize that for any row, the columns come in pairs.. one for the plug, one for the receptacle.

FWIW, I'm not an electrician... but what I am is a Registered Professional Electrical Engineer.

Some time, if there was interest, I could post some pictures on how I made a 4c/#12 extension cord with twist-lock receptacles to provide two separate 20A circuits to my router table to put my 15A router and my 11A shopvac on separate circuits.

Jim

[Joe Angrisani]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how do you take a 120V reel like the Grizzly H5695 and turn it into a 240V reel? The 120V has three conductors in it's 12/2 cable: "hot", "neutral" and "ground". 240V requires four conductors in it's 12/3 (for 20A 240) cable: "hot-1", "hot-2", "neutral" and "ground".

Jim.... Regarding your last sentence: It is my understanding that it is against the NEC to share a neutral. Perhaps an electrician can chime in.

[Rollie Meyers]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how do you take a 120V reel like the Grizzly H5695 and turn it into a 240V reel? The 120V has three conductors in it's 12/2 cable: "hot", "neutral" and "ground". 240V requires four conductors in it's 12/3 (for 20A 240) cable: "hot-1", "hot-2", "neutral" and "ground".

Jim.... Regarding your last sentence: It is my understanding that it is against the NEC to share a neutral. Perhaps an electrician can chime in.

A 240 volt circuit does not require a neutral, the only way one would be needed is if the equipment had 120 volt controls/lighting, otherwise it's a waste of money. A "shared neutral" is not against the NEC, where it is called a multiwire circuit, one has to be sure the line conductor land on opposite legs (So that there is 240V between them)or there will be issues w/ a overloaded neutral.

[Jim Becker]

My suggestion is to use a suspended tail from the ceiling box with strain relief and twist-locks to connect appropriately sized extension cords to your equipment when it's in use. Just twist off the connection and coil the extension to hang when it's not in use. This also gives you a positive disconnect for each machine.

[Ole Anderson]

And if you convert a white neutral wire to a hot wire, you must paint, marker or tape the wire so it is clear to the next user that is is no longer a neutral (white) wire.

[ray hampton]

And if you convert a white neutral wire to a hot wire, you must paint, marker or tape the wire so it is clear to the next user that is is no longer a neutral (white) wire.


OKAY ,YOU MARK THE WHITE WIRE ON THE END but what
will happen IF I splice into the wire half way between the
ends not knowing THAT white in HOTT

[Rod Sheridan]

The one issue that hasn't been mentioned is that cord wrapped around a reel has a lower current carrying capacity than a piece of cord in free air.

This is because the heat cannot escape and the cord will overheat.

Do not convert a 15 ampere cord reel to 20 amperes yourself, it's a safety problem.

You didn't actually think the manufacturer used #12 AWG cord on a 15 ampere rated reel because they were generous did you?

The cord de-rating is due to cord heating while on the reel.

That's why the electrical approval is for 15 amperes only.........Regards, Rod.

[Jim Neeley]

And if you convert a white neutral wire to a hot wire, you must paint, marker or tape the wire so it is clear to the next user that is is no longer a neutral (white) wire.


Good point, Ole.. I missed that. It cannot be colored green; red is commonly used.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The one issue that hasn't been mentioned is that cord wrapped around a reel has a lower current carrying capacity than a piece of cord in free air.

This is because the heat cannot escape and the cord will overheat.

Do not convert a 15 ampere cord reel to 20 amperes yourself, it's a safety problem.



IIRC, didn't someone here @ SMC post a thread about their cord reel catching fire?

[Ole Anderson]

Many cord reels are 16 gauge wire, I can see someone running a heater or a window AC for an extended period of time and getting into trouble, but most shop motor loads are short duration and even then, running at less than full load, so unless you have a 2 hp 110v dust collector plugged into a reel I would feel very safe in running a 16 amp shop motor load (80% of the breaker capacity) on a 12 gauge cord reel. But then I am a bit of a risk taker (I do still have 10 fingers).