Ebonizing with Vinegar - Never again

[Tim Thiebaut]

Ok I admit right off the bat that maybe its just me...but this is the most god awful stinking stuff I have smelled in years. I started it a couple of days ago, went to check it tonight...it has been 2 hours of pounding headaches and nausea from the fumes/smell of this potion from below. And the thing is I love the smell of regular vinegar, especialy malted..anyway whatever kind of chemical reaction that takes place between the vinegar and the steel wool is absolutly horrible.

If you have tried this before and had good luck my hat is off to you. If you are comtemplating trying it...I would recommend getting a mask that will take care of fumes like this unless you have an iron clad stomache and this type of stuff dosnt bother you, because your house will smell once you open the container, do it outside!!

I will have to try other ways to ebonize in the future. Tim

[Stephen Pereira]

I didn't notice any smell at all and I made two quarts of the solution. What brand vinegar did you use? You are supposed to use white vinegar..not apple cider or heaven forbid Balsamic.

[Roger Chandler]

I don't know why folks use this solution anyway when there are ready made dyes on the market, and leather dyes, both of which have alcohol base and dry quickly, and you can get on with your project in minutes after applying. Maybe I am missing some wonderful aspect of the steel wool/ vinegar thing, but I don't know what that is.

India Ink is about as black as you can make a finial if you use it.

[Tim Thiebaut]

I used white vinegar Stephen.

I am going to try a dye or India Ink next Roger, the vinegar was recommended by so many people I thought I would give it a shot...will I guess you win some and you lose some and I lost this one. I will try the dye or Ink next but I am done with the vinegar for good.

[Alan Trout]

I know Molly Winton uses black leather die for all of her ebonized stuff. Her stuff is really black and beautiful.

Alan

[John Keeton]

While I have never tried the ebonizing with vinegar and steel wool, to me, if one is after a true black, dye is the choice. The ebonizing effect is not predictable wood to wood, and even within species. It all depends on the tannin present.

[Tim Thiebaut]

I am going to give the dye a try John, funny thing is I was at my local Ace last week and happened to see the wood dyes as I was walking through the paint section...they didnt have any black though so I didnt grab any...I will track some down somewhere though...anything must be better then vinegar.

[Prashun Patel]

I've used vinegar a couple times. The smell isn't good, but it does wear off. To me, the big prob is the unpredictability of it.

[Jim Heikes]

The major problem with this process: There is very little acetic acid in vinegar to react with the steel wool to produce FERROUS SULFATE. This compound is actually the "ebonizer." You can usually find FS in garden supply stores

Jim

[John Keeton]

Tim, you can order Fiebing's leather dye direct from here (http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx). It will give a nice black, and it is alcohol based so it doesn't raise the grain quite so badly - dries quick, too.

http://www.fiebing.com/Domains/fiebing/UserImages/products/FLeatherDye.gif

[Tim Thiebaut]

Perfect! Thanks John!

[Richard Madden]

I have used the vinegar/steel wool solution with good results on walnut, but on a recent project in oak, it was a different story...the end grain looked good, but not side grain. That surprised me because of the high tannin level in oak. I also use TransTint in alcohol which is good, but the best I have used is some fabric/leather dye called "Blacker than Black". Found it on CL locally for $1.00 a bottle (16 oz.). Lots of other colors too. If bought in quantity you can get really cheap. Look at this guys add.http:// stlouis.craigslist.org/art/2248211226.html

[Paul Douglass]

I'm thinking something is wrong. I've done it with no problem. You had to have used the wrong vinegar. Fact my solution had less smell that just plane vinegar.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I have used the solution and like that the result varies from piece to piece. To me, that helps make each turning unique. I did notice the smell when I first opened the container but I did not have the reaction you did.

[Frank Mussenden]

Have any of you guys tried vacuum dying with a paintpot or caped sealed section of 8" pvc with a HD truck tire stem. You can ad ball valves and set the system to vacuum the the dye right out of it container into the tank. and back without getting dye on your self. Indian ink works bst for black. Printer dyes of all colors can be used and they dry fast.

[Chip Sutherland]

Thanks for the tip. I haven't felt the need to try ebonizing with steel wool/vinegar. I'm lazy. Give me anniline dye or leather dye any day. I've never tried ammonia fuming oak either.

[Nate Davey]

Have any of you guys tried vacuum dying with a paintpot or caped sealed section of 8" pvc with a HD truck tire stem. You can ad ball valves and set the system to vacuum the the dye right out of it container into the tank. and back without getting dye on your self. Indian ink works bst for black. Printer dyes of all colors can be used and they dry fast.

Have any pics of such a contraption? Interested in the PVC self extracting idea.

[Stephen Pereira]

Have any of you guys tried vacuum dying with a paintpot or caped sealed section of 8" pvc with a HD truck tire stem. You can ad ball valves and set the system to vacuum the the dye right out of it container into the tank. and back without getting dye on your self. Indian ink works bst for black. Printer dyes of all colors can be used and they dry fast.

This sounds interesting. for small pieces. How deep does the dye penetrate?

IMO vinegar/bark solution give you the best deep coal black color..way better than leather dye. The main problem I've run into is the grain rasing effect. When you sand to correct
you have to be very careful not to sand through. As I stated in previous posts I used black tinted glaze to touch up problem areas. Over all I'm satisfied with the result but it was a lot of work.

I've got one more bed ready to color..this time I'm going to color the slats a rosewood and ebonized the rest. I used brass plugs to hide screws and shop made brass bed bolts..I like the contrast between brass and black wood.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Michael you can get india ink from Hobby Lobby or Michael's. I use it or leather dye.

[Bill Boehme]

The major problem with this process: There is very little acetic acid in vinegar to react with the steel wool to produce FERROUS SULFATE. This compound is actually the "ebonizer." You can usually find FS in garden supply stores

Jim

Ferrous Sulfate? Not from vinegar and steel wool. Neither of those contain sulfur. Pure vinegar (acetic acid) molecules consists of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen atoms. The various types of table vinegars have very small amounts of various other ingredients. Distilled vinegar and iron will produce iron oxide (or ferrous oxide) -- not quite the same molecular structure as rust which is ferric oxide. In this form, it is essentially black in color and would be equivalent to a dilute black dye with the added disadvantages of being messy, smelly, and not very consistent when applied to various woods.

BTW, Ferrous Sulfate found at the hardware store or garden center is also known as copperas. Copperas is sold in crystalline form and has a bluish-green color (it has nothing to do with copper, but the color looks like the patina on metals such as bronze that contain copper). When it gets wet and then dries, it will leave a rust colored residue.

[Martin Braun]

I have used it for various projects in the past. I used the cheap white vinegar from the grocery store, and I don't even remember where the steel wool came from. The first thing to keep in mind is that it won't necessarily turn the wood black, and in my experience, even with high tannin content it won't completely 'ebonize' the wood. Folks recommending other products to do that are on the right track in my opinion. If one is looking for a cheap way to change the color of the wood and experiment, then this is a fun option.

I have gotten eucalyptus red gum to turn almost black - it had still had plenty of nice grain, and great chatoyance with some clear lacquer applied after it dried. I also have used it on flatwork - a toy chest and a book shelf (both of pine), to provide a great deep brown, aged look. I put shellac as a top coat on those. Keep in mind on pine, it takes some time for the color to develop. Your first reaction may be 'oh my, I ruined it!' But that's why the say to experiment when tinkering with finishes. I have experimented with red oak, and did not like the effect. I have thought about doing it to mesquite, but why ruin perfection ;)?

I have not noticed the smell that the OP referred to. I have made probably half a dozen batches over the years. That said, there is a reaction going on, so keep the container vented, use a coffee filter to strain the fines out of the solution before applying to the work. Use a generous amount when staining, and don't be afraid to do 2 or 3 applications.