Wooden threaders....

[john brenton]

Sorry...I know it's been covered many many times here before, but recently I had my bubble burst when a fellow creeker stated that the threads you get from those little Taiwanese threaders/tappers are no good for vise screws.

It wouldn't kill me to buy steel vises from LV, but I sure had my heart set on wooden screws.

Can anyone that has used those wooden threaders for bench vises talk me back towards the ledge?

[Zach Dillinger]

John,

A long time ago, I built a Frank Klausz style continental bench. Not knowing any better, I used a 1" wooden thread kit to create the screws for the shoulder vise and the tail vise. I threaded some birch dowel that I got from Johnsons Workbench and they held up quite well. I put them through some heavy use in the 4 years that I used that bench and never had a problem with the threads chipping, although the 1" screw was perhaps a little "flexible" for a bench screw. I did keep them waxed with parafin in use, and I took them out and used paste wax on them once a month, just to make them easier to use.

I imagine that if you were to use the 1 1/2" kit, you would have even more luck than I. Just make sure to maintain them.

Zach

[john brenton]

I'm so glad that you replied, because I'm really leaning towards the continental...and not because it fits my motif...but because it just makes a lot of sense.

Why did you stop using the bench? Is there anything on it you would have done differently (other than the smallish screws), or any area where you felt it was lacking?

[Zach Dillinger]

John,

The reason I stopped my first bench had to do with its size. When I built it, I was working in a small corner of a basement and didn't have room for anything larger than a 6 foot bench.
My wife and I then bought a new house, where I now have a 15 ' x 20' shop. I have the room for an 8 foot bench, so I made my current Roubo, just to try a different style of bench.

The only complaints I had with the continental was the length and the fact that the tail vise had started to sag. This may be due to my construction methods (again I was a fairly new woodworker then). However, I still long for the shoulder vise when cutting joinery. Man, that thing was useful.

[john brenton]

Sorry to keep bugging you, but I am really inching up on building the bench. I'm not afraid of building it, but right now even a $200 investment in lumber would be tough and I want something that'll keep me going for at least 5 years...but I'm at the point where I don't want to do anything without a good bench. I'm tired of the jimmy clamping.

How do you like the Ruobo? Did you go with the leg vise and crochet?

[Bob Glenn]

I built a twin screw vise with using the screw box and tap from Woodcraft. No problems. The threaded screw is cherry and the nut is poplar. I use beeswax to keep the threads lubricated.

[george wilson]

I hope it wasn't I who dissuaded your 60º threads. They would BEST be 90º for not chipping the crests off of,but I'm not sure anyone has made them the right way since the early 19th.C.. Go ahead and use them. You can make more if they wear out,but 1" is really VERY small.

[Jim Paulson]

John,
Like Bob I made a twin screw vise for my portable bench. I used a 1 -1/2" dia threader. I haven't had any problems. Originally, I was looking for a 2" dia threader, but at the time none were available.
Food for thought.
Jim

[george wilson]

They are available if you want to pay about $2000.00. The Dick catalog(Germany) has them.

[Jim Paulson]

Heh George,
I'd have to make quite a few benches at that price for a threader. Do remember now the kits that Lake Erie Toolworks makes for benches. They offer twin screw kits of $285+ for a 2-1/2 or 2-3/4? inch diameter screw. I recently saw one on a bench at the Toledo Woodcraft store. It looked pretty sweet on a leg vise set-up.

Jim

[john brenton]

Hey George, it wasn't you but I am happy to have someone burst my bubble. I don't like surprises....unless there is lingerie involved.

Reminds me of a joke....nevermind!

[Halgeir Wold]

This norwegian co' has the 1 1/2" set for around 120$ - or maybe less...http://www.verktoyas.no/
http://nettbutikk.verktoyas.no/index.cfm?tmpl=butikk&a=product_inline&&b_kid=750505&b_id=751459

Drop them an e-mail at post@verktoy.no to make sure you get the complete set, as their webshop seems a bit inconsistent, showing only the die for appx 90$, but their online catalogue shows the complete set, without a price....
( BTW - "verktoy" in norwegian= "tools" ) also- the 25% norwegian VAT should be deducted on export....
- if you're interested, I'd be happy to contact them for you.... it's just a phone call..... :-)

[Zach Dillinger]

Sorry to keep bugging you, but I am really inching up on building the bench. I'm not afraid of building it, but right now even a $200 investment in lumber would be tough and I want something that'll keep me going for at least 5 years...but I'm at the point where I don't want to do anything without a good bench. I'm tired of the jimmy clamping.

How do you like the Ruobo? Did you go with the leg vise and crochet?

John,

I did build the leg vise but skipped the crochet. I wanted to try it without it and I haven't had any workholding problems, but I wonder how much easier holding boards for dovetailing would be with it. I'm thinking about putting one on, after I'm finished with my current commissions and window work. I really like the bench for planing and working long edges. Holding wood for joinery isn't as easy as with my continental, but I expected that.

[Derek Cohen]

Sorry...I know it's been covered many many times here before, but recently I had my bubble burst when a fellow creeker stated that the threads you get from those little Taiwanese threaders/tappers are no good for vise screws.

It wouldn't kill me to buy steel vises from LV, but I sure had my heart set on wooden screws.

Can anyone that has used those wooden threaders for bench vises talk me back towards the ledge?


Hi John

I used the 1 1/2" set to make threads for a dovetail vise: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/MoxonDovetailVise.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/MoxonDovetailVise_html_57a8f820.jpg

They work well in this context - where the thickness of a board has a small range - but the tight threads (i.e. s-l-o-w) would drive me nuts if used on a wide variety of depths.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Keller NC]

John - I'm afraid that was me that "burst your bubble". I should be specific here - it's not that the taiwanese tap/die kits for wooden threads don't work, or that the threads made from them aren't sturdy, it's that the pitch of the threads made from these kits are quite narrow. Specifically, the 1-1/2" thread kit I have is 6 tpi (I think - I'd have to go dig it out).

If you look at wooden vise screws on old benches or the new screws made by Big Wooden Vise, Lake Erie, etc..., you'll see that the thread pitch is more like 1-1/2 threads per inch. While it's true that a bigger diameter shaft generally has a lower thread pitch, so it would be appropriate for the 1-1/2" thread kit to have a higher tpi count, 6 tpi is more appropriate to metal threads than wooden.

That doesn't mean that a vise made from these won't work. In fact, it's a wholly suitable means of making an occasional use vise, such as the one Derek posted and Chris Schwarz has blogged about. But - keep in mind that you will have to rotate the vise screw 6 full revolutions to move it out/in 1 inch. That's a heck of a lot of cranking for a constant-use vise.

Given that, I would choose to go with a taiwanese-made metal screw and nut that are specifically made for vises (generally, acme square threads and about 3 tpi) if money is tight, or with a srew and nut from Big Wooden Vise, Lake Erie Toolworks or Green Lake Clock Company if the funds are there.

[john brenton]

Yes, David, it was you...and I wholeheartedly appreciate it. Sometimes we can opine here without really knowing what we're talking about, or about something that we haven't really tried ourselves...so it's refreshing to hear somebody that can give the pros and cons with real specificity.

On the shoulder vise I am in agreement with Derek because I want it for dovetailing and planing boards on edge...its the tail vise that is critical to me...and I may just go with the mechanical one from Lee Valley. Building the full on shop made tail vise is still out of my league.

I will be on the look out for the 3 tpi Taiwanese...but the Scandanavian option seemed pretty good too. I guess there is that much more investigation I need to do before I dig in a build this thing.

Thanks everyone

[David Keller NC]

John - Lee Valley's quick-release tail vise sure is slick, and I might think about it for my next build that's coming up in a few months. But it's fairly expensive at $269. So if you're looking for a solution that's a little more wallet-friendly, you might consider the small quick release Jorgensen vise from Woodcraft. It would make an excellent tail vise, and (at least for today), it's on sale for $121. I have the larger, 4X10" version as a face vise on my current bench, and it's very nice, very sturdy, and works well. One advantage is that it has a cam-action quick-release mechanism instead of the Record-type lever quick release. I haven't had good luck with the lever types - once they're a bit worn, they seem to pop out of engagement just when you're tightening down on something.