Foot brake on band saw--repair/replace

[Mike Cruz]

Howdy all. I got a 1958 Delta 28-350 20" band saw recently. I (my brother and I) took off the wheels to both change the tires, and to replace the bearings. Man were those bearings shot. The bottom ones were almost seized. :eek: Anyway, I digress. With the lower wheel off, I got a good look at the brake pad that presses up against the metal ring just on the inside of the lower wheel. It is about 1/2 (or more) worn down. I really don't want to pull the brake off to attempt to replace the brake pad. (Probably asbestos.) I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about what I could build the pad up with to get it back to its original thickness. Or if anyone has replaced the pad, what they used, how difficult it was, and if you have to remove it from the saw to do it?

I suppose that if the pad is only 1/2 worn from the past 50+ years, the second half will last my lifetime. But, while I have the wheel off, I thought I would at least entertain the idea of repairing/replacing the brake.

[Stephen Cherry]

Why not just go to walmart and get an electric crock pot to use as a braking resistor? That way you could use the stored kinetic energy in the saw to make chili con carne.

[Mike Cruz]

Always thinking aren't you? :)

[Julian Tracy]

Well, the pad is just riveted or bolted on, right? So take it off and put a plywood space inbetween the steel and the pad.

JT

[Rick Markham]

Why not just go to walmart and get an electric crock pot to use as a braking resistor? That way you could use the stored kinetic energy in the saw to make chili con carne.

I've got to keep my eye on you Stephen:p... that's a response that Mike would expect from me!:D I need to get out of the turner's forum more often... I think I'm like the bandsaw's brake pad... in the process of being replaced! :eek:

[Carroll Courtney]

Mcmaster-Carr has brake liner that I just JB weld it onto the shoe
http://www.mcmaster.com/#brake-lining/=ba9zbl Post some pics----Carroll

[Mike Cruz]

Carroll, how long does this stuff last? I mean, do you have to keep replacing it? I ask because it doesn't seem like you can buy a small swatch...for a one time use. I looks like you have to buy large amounts like 15" x 15" or 1" x 15 feet. I like the idea, but not if I have to keep reapplying it. I think the wheel needs to be removed to get to the brake, and I'm not up for the task of removing the wheel on a regular basis. I like the idea. Thanks.

[Mike Cruz]

I've got to keep my eye on you Stephen:p... that's a response that Mike would expect from me!:D I need to get out of the turner's forum more often... I think I'm like the bandsaw's brake pad... in the process of being replaced! :eek:

No, Rick, Steve is a whole different caliber of smart a$$. :D The differnce is that, you may not know this, but he is half serious about the crock pot idea! Actually, Steve is a VERY good guy that has helped me out on numerous occasions with the electrical set up on my lathe and 20" band saw. He's also in the process of helping me with some plasma cutting and welding on the band saw. Really good guy, but a VERY witty and creative smart a$$...one of his finer traits. ;)

You, on the other hand, are a SA for the sake of being a SA. Something I also truly appreciate. ;)

[Larry Edgerton]

What about using a part of a disk pad from a car. They would be free, just one side wears on many brake systems, so you could pick one up at a repair shop. I just picked up the next Delta model 20", can't remember the model #, and I will be looking at that myself.

[Mike Cruz]

So, Larry, are the pads on car brakes flexible? Because it would need to contour to either the remaining original pad, or if I remove that, to the metal part of the brake. Also, what would be the best way to attach it? For some reason I'm picturing a blue glue used for brakes pads...

[Larry Edgerton]

Mike, I don't have my shop set up right now, but I am going out there today. I'll look at mine and see what I can come up with, but keep in mind mine is the next model that ends in an X. Been stuck in the house and need to get out anyway.....

Will post back. My brother has a automotive repair shop so I'll look around his metal dumpster

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike....have you asked over at OWWM for a possible solution or source? Another consideration .....brake shoes for cars........they were riveted onto the metal frame IIRC....it's been along while since I did any brakes on my own cars that weren't disc.

[Stephen Cherry]

No, Rick, Steve is a whole different caliber of smart a$$. :

Doesn't hurt my feelings- I've heard it all before, usually without the smart part though.

The whole point is, why not just get the resistor for the drive. 28 dollars, and you don't need to press the brake.

[Mike Cruz]

See, Rick? I told you he wasn't kidding about the crock pot!

I guess I want the foot brake back to proper working order. It works the way it is now, but I just thouht I'd tackle it while the wheel was off...it is now or never. Call me, Steve. We'll talk about the resistor.

Ken and Julian, the pad on the brake right now is not rivited or bolted. So, I assume it is glued. Car brake pads might be a good solution. I'm just not sure how flexible they are...to contour to the metal brake itself. And Ken, I might check out OWWM on this if I get nowhere here. But it is looking good so far.

Oh, I did look a little closer, and to pull the brake out is almost a no brainer...two bolts and a nut on the tensioning rod.

[Larry Edgerton]

I went and looked at mine, but it is shoved in the corner behind a bunch of machines. I'd have to move them all with the forklift. It looked like a band brake maybe on mine? I couldn't get to the back panel to look inside. Mine does not work at all which surprises me as I bought it from a high school shop. I have not had time to set it up since I bought it, and won't be spending any time on it until spring.

You have a picture of yours? All I could see on mine is that there is a braking surface like an inverted drum on the back of the bottom wheel, but could not see the braking mechanism itself.

There are companys that specialize in relining old brake parts. I have used them for old cars I restored that had no brakes available. I'm sure there is one that could do this as well.

Be interested to see what you come up with.

[Dave MacArthur]

Stephen,
Can you elaborate on this motor braking / resistor thing? I've wondered how those work, and it seems you're saying it's something doable at home? While the car brake pad ideas above sound good to me, it would be nice to also have a motor brake.

[Stephen Cherry]

Stephen,
Can you elaborate on this motor braking / resistor thing? I've wondered how those work, and it seems you're saying it's something doable at home? While the car brake pad ideas above sound good to me, it would be nice to also have a motor brake.

Sure, Mikes saw has a variable frequency drive. To me this seems like the best way to run a bandsaw; controlled acceleration, variable speed, and potentially controlled braking. The drive has terminals for a braking resistor that works by using the motor as a generator to drive current through the resistor. Nothing is free, so the energy from the wheels turns to heat in the resistor. The great thing, as long as you don't mind not buying American, is that all these parts are pretty cheap. The drive is about 180 and the resistor another 30. The drive can be set to a particular number of seconds for the deceleration.

One other possibility, if you don't have a three phase saw, would be an eddy current brake. This would involve placing a magnet near one of the wheels to induce a current and cause a deceleration. This would take a little head scratching though.

[Larry Edgerton]

Ok had me scratching my head on that one. Mine is 3 ph, but no VFD. I thought maybe you had some scheme to run current backwards like some older universal motors used. I don't have a VFD, so I guess I'll have to fix my foot brake.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike......Brake SHOE pads are already curved........

[Mike Cruz]

Ahhh, gotcha Ken. Maybe I'll look into that.

Larry, give me a few minutes and I'll go take some pics.

[Rick Markham]

Ok Mike... In that case Steve, Carry on! :D

Electrical wizardry I will leave up to the electrical engineers... It holds very little interest to me. But I do appreciate a good pot of Chili con carne... minus the sawdust though :p

[Mike Cruz]

Larry, here are some pics. The first two are of the brake and pad. You can see that the entire pad didn't ride on the metal ring that is attached to the back of the lower wheel (third pic). So, only about 7/8 of the pad got used. This is evident by the unused lip on the pad.

[Mike Cruz]

Oops, in another post, I accidentally responded to this post addressing it to Ken and Larry. I should have said Ken and Julian...No it isn't riveted or bolted on. Must be glued.

[ray hampton]

what about using bicycle brake pads ?

[Larry Edgerton]

Ok, here is what you may want to look for in your area. I googled" Industrial brake relining"

http://www.industrialbrakes.co.uk/


My setup is just like yours I am sure, it has the same hub on the back of the lower wheel, I just can't see the rest.
Obviously this one is a bit of a drive, I just noticed its in the UK. You get the idea. I sent some brake shoes out to have lined a few years ago that were obsolete, and it was not very expensive at all. It was a place in Detroit, but I am sure every large city has one of these joints.

[Mike Cruz]

Hmmmm, good idea. Thanks!

[Mike Cruz]

Cool, thanks! I'll start looking for it. Now, here's the tricky part. If the pad on there now is asbestos, and probably is, I don't think I want anything to do with removing the old pad. So, better to just send it off to someone else to have it properly dealt with? Or put on a dust mask, hold my breath and work quickly?

[Larry Edgerton]

I ain't scared! I see you are around a lot of city stuff. If you can find one close enough I would just drop it off, or send it in if too far. Its not like the saw does not work without it if you really need it. I like the local idea though better, because if they lose that part it may take a while to dig up another casting.

If you just have a pad made and shipped for install yourself let me know and I may order one or two as well.

Larry

[Stephen Cherry]

Ok Mike... In that case Steve, Carry on! :D

Electrical wizardry I will leave up to the electrical engineers... It holds very little interest to me. But I do appreciate a good pot of Chili con carne... minus the sawdust though :p

No sawdust in your chili? But it's a good source of dietary fiber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose

[Van Huskey]

Mcmaster-Carr has brake liner that I just JB weld it onto the shoe
http://www.mcmaster.com/#brake-lining/=ba9zbl Post some pics----Carroll

Carroll has your answer right here Mike, a foot does the pad 4-5 times. It was what I was going to post until I saw CC mention it. This is the "standard" fix for vintage brake shoes on machines. You want the non-metallic strip. I am not at home but I think its the 2" wide version, I also think it is 5/16" or 3/8" thick.

[Mike Cruz]

Just ordered the 3/8" thick pad and some JB weld. Thanks everyone for your help.

[Pete Bradley]

Your break shoe is in fine shape and doesn't need anything. Mine had been run for years on the bare metal and had to be built up first. 3/8 material's pretty thick. I'd recommend 3/16". For adhesive, use PL from your local borg and clamp well. This will result in a shoe of the wrong radius, but you can either just run it, or use some coarse emery paper wrapped around the wheel hub to radius it.

Pete

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Pete, I'll keep that in mind.