Need advice on how to make stainglass like pattern in Corel Draw X5 like in pic

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hello all you Corel Draw aficionados,
I have been approached by a Cabinet maker and an Interior Designer that are making there line of ****** cabinets and want me to cut out a stain glass frame that looks like the one in the picture but it needs to be balanced and correct proportions in a 10" by 27" frame. I have no measurements to start off from (they handed me this copy of a copy with no specs other than exterior frame they want it transferred to) so what I need the most help on is trying to calculate what the size of each shapes will be (actual pattern will be 1/4" wide frames) in the 10x27 frame.

I know it will be mirrored and flipped, just hoping someone has already done something like this.

185073

Thanks in advance and ...

[Richard Coers]

I can only help with the idea that the ideal rectangle should have a proportion of around 3x5 or 5x8. Or what is called the Golden Mean which equals a ration 1.618.

[Robert L Stewart]

Michael,

If they can provide a better drawing you could scan it and do a hand trace. Then you can free transform to the desired dimentions in Corel Draw. Lots of work I know but sounds like they are leaving the deed in your expert hands. Is this what you do along with the fabrication or do you usually require "camera ready art work"? Good luck as that could take a bit of time.

[Rodne Gold]

That's not a difficult design or design brief , most of the pattern "repeats" , you really have to only design 1/4 of the graphic.
The "leads" are easy to do , all you need to do is draw hairlines and contour 1/8th of an inch outwards to get the 1/4" "leads"
You will need to do a bit of welding and trimming to remove the hairlines and clean up intersections and so on.
You can get a pretty good idea of more or less what sizes the shapes and distances involved are by measuring the pic you have and scaling the measurments up to the actual size.
You can then mirror/flip the bits needed to get the design to "repeat"

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Richard-Yes I am familiar with e Golden Mean, unfortunately I am stuck with the outer frame dimension of 10 wide by 27 high. The ratio is close.

Robert- What you see is basically what I got. I have a Wacom Graphire 3 tablet but the pic is in a perspective view so it won't work that easily. But I may try that with smart draw turned on.
Yes most send me DWG, AI, PDF, or other files for vectors and Jpeg, Bitmap or Tiff files and I can trace them in either Corel Draw X5 Trace or one of my other programs but this type is a first for me with the viewing angle.

Thanks Rodne, That's what I usually do but this one has an alternating brick pattern and elongated octagons with triangles that will probably just appear as a result of the others. The pic is too small to get accurate dimensions but I will guesstimate them and try to keep them proportional.

Will probably end up working on it Sunday night. Customer wants something by Wednesday. So if anyone else has any ideas please let me know.

Thanks and ...

[Larry Folk]

Michael,

Here is the file that we talked about.
Let me know if you think this works.

I use Corel alot but I think it would be almost impossible to do in Corel in any resonable amount of time. I use Microstation as my main cadd program.

185249

This took about an hour and a half to do with cadd.

[Robert Walters]

Larry,

Nice job in recreating the pattern!


Like Rodney mentioned, you just create 1/4 of it, then copy and mirror sections till you get the sections/size desired.

But, I have a question...

In Corel you can align top, bottom, left, right, etc. Unless I use Transformation > Position, is there some simpler way to align two objects (sometimes odd shapes) so they are butted up against each other? Or even so the lines of two objects overlap at the edge so I can trim/weld as one object?

Sorta like the middle object(s) here:
185258

[Larry Bratton]

Robert,
Do you already use the keyboard shortcuts for alignment? Like, with both selected enter C and the two parts align etc. Using the keyboard shortcuts in conjunction with Snap to Objects turned on will get you there, but I don't know of a single shortcut key that will accomplish your mission.

[Russell Ludwick]

I think what Larry did is great! I would take that flat pattern and run with it.

I totally agree with Larry as well, creating the pattern is much easier done in a specific cad program because there is so much reference geometry,constraints, and of course the mirror/patterning. This kind of stuff is tough in corel but easy in a CAD program and easy to export as a DXF or DWG to corel

I will take a shot at answering Roberts question as well. The easiest way I have found to move objects around is using the right click functionality. You can pretty much align any two nodes in your part. For instance in your example you would right click the midpoint of your lower line on the horizontal rectangle and drag it on the midpoint of the top line on the vertical rectangle and select "move here"

You can combine them by selecting the two rectangles and selecting the "weld" button on the property bar(top ribbon).

[Robert Walters]

The whole 'snap to objects' and 'dynamic guides' work most of the time, but like I mentioned sometimes I have odd shapes where the "center" node isn't what I want to butt up against another object.

I'll stick with the "Transformation > Position" for now I guess, just thought I'd ask =)

[Mike Null]

I recently read of a way to align things to butt up against each other but I can't recall where or how--corel forum?, here?

[Rodne Gold]

Easiest to use snap to objects and then nudge for an overlap
Use the virtual segment delete tool , which more approximates the conventional Acad trim than Corels weld etc.
I am constantly amazed at the spirit of sharing here , like Larry coming up with a ready made solution for Michael...
I also tend to do more complex stuff in Acad , especially when extremely accurate positioning is required. Can be done or kludged in Corel , but I started with ACAD ver 1 or so , so am conversant in it.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Larry,
I already PM'd you but will also publicly say FANTASTIC!!!! Thanks a lot. Here is a test piece for the customer. He asked that we not cut all the way through so he can sand the top with an orbital or pass it through the wide belt. Then one or two passes on the back and all scrap parts let go, the frame is left sanded smooth and all smoke residue is gone on front and back. Ready to stain.

Larry I greatly appreciate your assistance in this and it is indeed a Blessing.

Thanks and ...

[Dee Gallo]

Great job, Larry, it came out really well, Michael - nothing like teamwork. I love this place!

:D dee

[Larry Folk]

Michael,

For as complex as this design is I thought 1 1/2 hours was about right.
The way that I did this was to count all of the spaces in each direction and then subtract out all of the 1/4" frames. Then I divided each by how many spaces there were to get the spacings.

To start the drawing I did several copy parallel lines and just started to draw.
I use Bentley "Microstation" software for all of my architectural work. I have been using this software since 1982 when I setup the cadd department for Wendys engineering department.

I have Rino 4 w/tsplines but I have not used it to much.
I also use Sketchup Pro 8 and it has alot of new plugins that make it easy to use.

I have been using Sketchup to create some new product in 3d and then I can render it to look like a photo. I would like to do this for proofs to send to customers before I actually make the product.

I was thinking of joining Friends of the Creek to advertise a cadd service to other creekers.
Something that I have noticed here and at the engraving conference, that we attended in Buffalo, was that using cadd is somehow too hard and difficult to learn, but it does have a learning curve.

[Mike Null]

Larry

Great job! If you have any questions about FOTC just send me a pm.

I used to live a couple miles west of Wendy's HQ on 161.