Help With Chipboard...PLEASE!

[Edi Royer]

Hello :)
First I want to thank everyone in these forums...I have learned so much since finding this wonderful place!!! The knowledge here is Amazing!

Now on to my problem...
I am having a terrible time cutting chipboard! I just can't get a clean cut for anything...terribly charred edges.
I have an Epilog Mini 18-30 Watt.
I have tried: 600dpi/30sp/55pw/500fr and 200dpi/35sp/45pw/300fr with 2 cuts. Both leave terrible charring!
I am using a vector cutting table with air assist off. The air only blows the charring across the top of the paper and makes it worse.
I've attached a couple of pics of what I'm making if that will help.

Thank you in advance for the help (and my sanity!)
Edi185034185035

[Michael Hunter]

Try increasing the power until you cut through in one pass. (In my experience, two passes to cut wood guarantees charred edges).
Once you are getting through in one pass, air-assist might help and without blowing mess everywhere.

If you really mean chipboard, try changing to MDF or hardboard : these are more consistent for cutting and usually contain less glue.

30W is lowish for wood, but you should be able to cut up to 3mm (1/8") without charring.
6mm (1/4") might be a challenge to cut cleanly, judging by others' comments previously.

[Larry Bratton]

Michael:
The term Chipboard is somewhat misleading. I too thought chipboard referred to what you and I may know as particle board. Chipboard is simlilar to matboard (look at the image in the post). I posted something about this and then discovered I was in error, so I deleted it. I am thinking that the setting should be similar to matboard and at 30s/55p/500f should be about right for a 30 watt machine.

Edi-Have you checked to see if your optics are clean? The dpi is not relevant in vector cutting.

[Mike Null]

Chipboard is the type of material used in shirt boxes or the backer for yellow legal pads. It is a paperboard.

It is available in many thicknesses but it should cut in one pass with air assist on. Since the Trotec speed settings are unlike most other machines I hesitate to give them but on a 45 watt machine at 100P I run at 2.5 speed and 5000 hz. The edge is slightly brown in color but not charred. The material was a tablet backer.

The key is a good focus and air assist.

[Michael Hunter]

Chipboard is the type of material used in shirt boxes or the backer for yellow legal pads. It is a paperboard.

In the UK we call that stuff cardboard.
Also in the UK, chipboard is the material used for floorboards and (when faced with melamine) for cheapo furniture.
Particle board is the up-market type of chipboard - twice the price and still horrible.

These subtle differences across borders make it so easy to get confused - it would be easier if things had totally different names!

Still, getting the name right isn't helping Edi with his problem.
Your (Mike Null's) settings also point toward getting through in one pass being the key to improving the situation.

[Larry Bratton]

"In the UK we call that stuff cardboard."- Hahaha...here too!

[Mike Null]

I'm taking a wild guess that Edi is a lady. But either way, welcome to the forum Edi.

[Mike Mackenzie]

I use chipboard for location templates all the time it is cheap and easy to work with. I use 20 power and 20 speed low PPI with a 50 watt and have no problem cutting it.

By the way I get mine from u-line they offer it in lots of sizes and thickness.

[Edi Royer]

Thanks so much for all your replies!
Yes, the chipboard I'm referring to is like a compressed cardboard similar to mat board.

Larry...The optics are clean, it has done this since I purchased the machine from day 1. And thanks for the heads up about dpi and vector cutting.

Mike Null...I will try fast speed with 100 power and high frequency and see if that helps. Thanks :)

QUESTION: Do you think getting the material closer to the laser would help? I'm using auto-focus right now. Maybe focusing closer would help???

PS...Yes, I'm a lady. I got a good laugh out of that :) (But I'm used to it!)

[Edi Royer]

A little off topic but...
How do I add a photo and a signature to my posts? I could not find this under My Account.
That would help with my gender confusion...LOL :)

[Dan Hintz]

Edi,

You can add a photo next to your handle and some sig information by going to the "Forum Actions" drop-down near the upper left (small type in the dark green-blue bar) and selecting "Edit Profile". Please remember to read the Terms of Service before filling anything out (no mention of websites, no ads, etc., but please include your machine type/power).

As to your chipboard question... no, getting closer to the lens won't help. For such a thin material, you want to focus as tightly as possible to the top of the substrate. Make sure your auto-focus is actually focusing to the correct depth.

[Larry Bratton]

Edi:
By all means try some different settings. Start out hot and fast and see what happens. By all means use air assist. Settings can be very hard to determine sometimes and things are not as you estimate them. For example, I have used the Epilog recommendations as a starting point ever since I have had the machine. I recently had a fairly large quantity of 1/8 acrylic to cut. My manual calls for 15s/100p/5000f. I was cutting with paper mask on the acrylic and I dropped the speed down to 10s to be sure I got through it on the first pass. I apparently was suffering from a good bit of unseen heat damage on the edges of the material because I was getting crazing when I glued. I needed to decrease my heat, so I started experimenting and low and behold, I found I could cut 1/8" plastic at 10s/ 45p/ 500f in ONE pass. So, the point is nothing is cast in stone with this stuff. Your focus is probably not the issue. Your just going to have to find the right combination. I would say your frequency needs to be low also, the higher the frequency the more pulses and more heat is generated, but try others if you like. Good luck!

[Tim Eddings]

Edi
I use #40 acid free chipboard which is about 0.05 thick using 50s/30p/500fr w air assist.
The non archival chipboard is not as consistant in thickness and tends to char more.
You pay a little more but I found that it is worth it in the long run for better results.
Hope this helps.
Tim

[Edi Royer]

Ugh...maybe tomorrow will be a better day. I tried several different settings at opposite ends of the spectrum (fast/high power...slow/low power). Still the same results.

I get the charring with plain chipboard. But it only makes it worse when I cover both sides with cardstock and then another layer of patterned paper. (as seen in my first photo)
Air assist isn't an option...ruins the patterned paper everytime.

Is there a way to clean the paper afterwards?

Thanks again to everyone for your replies! This is simply the best engraving forum hands down!

[Dan Hintz]

Multiple layers of anything is a crapshoot from the get-go, making the layers of different materials makes it even more troublesome.

Without being there to verify what's going on, I would suggest making sure the focal point is set to the correct distance. Do you have any scrap anodized aluminum around? If not, some coil stock from the local BORG works reasonably well for this test.

Place a 4" long piece on the table with one end propped up by a 1" piece of scrap. Set the table height so you should be focused properly right in the center of the 4" sheet. Engrave multiple lines from the bottom end of the sheet to the top... if the line right in the middle of the sheet is not the sharpest, you're out of focus.

[Mike Null]

Edi

If you are using adhesive to paste the sheets together it's a good bet that the adhesive may be the culprit. May you can experiment with some other types of adhesive.

I just ran another piece changing my settings closer to Mike Mckenzies recommendation and got zero browning on the back cover of a spiral notebook.

[Edi Royer]

I should probably mention that this stuff is a lot thicker than notebook backing. It is almost 1/16" thick and even thicker when I add the paper.
It chars bare or covered.

[Mike Null]

Edi

If you can be specific about the thicknesses and the adhesive I'm sure some of us will experiment using as close to your material as we can.

[Rodne Gold]

You really need nitrogen rather than air assist to cut cardboard to minimise charring
However if you don't want to use an inert gas, try this : set ppi low , just above discrete perforation and use strong air assist - mask the material with paper based low tack sign vinyl application tape to stop surface marring. The freq/ppi is how many holes the laser drills in a set distance - the laser cuts by drilling lots of holes , closely spaced so they overlap , too little makes cuts like perforations , too much overlap puts a lot of heat into the material leading to charring.
You might of course just have too little power to cut this stuff cleanly , lasers work by vaporising and not "burning" , too little power density leads to burning. Think of making a hole thru paper with a butane soldering torch or a bic lighter - both will work but the hotter and thinner torch flame will make a clean hole and the bic's hole will be messy.

[Edi Royer]

Mike...The chipboard is about 1/16" thick and I am using a Scotch/3M glue stick to glue the cardstock down and a Xyron sticker maker to add the patterned paper on top.

Rodne...I think I'll try masking next so I can use the air assist. Thanks.
And maybe you're right...I may just not have enough power to cut nicely at this thickness.

Thanks for all your replies...I'll keep on experimenting!

[Dan Hintz]

Have you verified your focus?

[Edi Royer]

Dan...No, I need to get some material first. I haven't had a chance to run to the store...I've been working 10 hr days all week and this weekend.
I'll get some anodized aluminum and check it out. Thank you for the how-to...I would not have known how to do that.