Grizzly G0514X2 or Rikon 10-345

[Joe Shinall]

Ok, new post. I had decided on the G0514X2 Grizzly 19" Bandsaw. The extra power than the 513 was the main selling point but the foot brake was another factor. Now I just got Highland Woodworkings mail letter and they have the Rikon 18" 10-345 for $1200. $200 off. I have a Rikon drill press and am very pleased with it, but I have heard mixed reviews on the Rikon 18" bandsaw, but all the reviews were from years ago and not sure if they have been changed any.

So can anyone give me any insight on these 2 models. I am making my decision this week and ordering the beginning of next week as soon as I get my bonus check. I put them side by side and the Grizzly has it beat on paper in a few categories and it has the foot brake. But is Rikon that much better of a brand to overlook those features?

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have looked at the Rikon & Grzzly saws for several years. When I finally decided in November to get a larger bandsaw I decided it would be a Rikon. Not because I thought it was a better saw, but because I could see & touch it & Woodcraft had the Rikon on sale for $999 at the time. Well work keep me from getting to a Woodcraft store & when I did, I was a day late. The price was back to $1599.
Just after Christmas I decided I would get a Grizzly GO514X3. That is the 3 phase version. I have no regrets. I really like the rack & pinion for tilting the table. It makes tilting the large table very easy. I have no complaints on it at all.

I think I would have been happy with the Rikon also, but I did not get a chance to try it.

[John Coloccia]

I personally think the Grizzly is the better saw in this case. I've nothing particularly against Rikon. I'm actually thinking of picking up one of their smaller saws, but having owned the Grizzly and having played with the Rikon, I prefer the Grizzly. It's a better saw where it matters in places like the guide bearing brackets, and things like that.

[jonathan eagle]

In a recent issue of fine woodworking , both were reviewed. I have seen the Rikon. At $999, I'd buy it.

[Richard Coers]

Have you been reading my posts on the 514X2? My cast iron wheels are filled with balance holes and weights. The castings are incredibly poor with thicknesses all over the place. I've will have had mine in pieces for a week here in a couple more days waiting for parts from Gizzly. Right now my confidence is pretty low that I will get good wheels since I checked the top wheel last night. 9 balance holes and weights on the lower wheel, 7 balance holes in the top wheel. Those holes are almost 5/8" dia and over 3/16" deep. The one wheel had a grouping of 6 in one place, the top wheel had a grouping of 4 in one place. I can't believe you don't start affecting the strength of the casting when you drill almost half way through, and overlap some of the holes in grouping of 6. I used a Rikon in the shop at Woodcraft before it closed. I didn't inspect the wheels, but I say go for the Rikon!

[Matt Winterowd]

Richard, it's really unfortunate that you've had such a negative experience with your saw, and I'd be really frustrated too if I were in your position. However, I'm not sure that jumping into every thread on bandsaws and shooting down the Grizzly is warranted at this point. You say that you've had the saw in pieces for a "week here in a couple more days." So you've had it in pieces for a few days. And it sounds like Grizzly is working with you to make it right. Lots of people are very pleased with their 514s and it's quite clear that yours is not the norm. Should yours have gotten through quality control? Probably not. But a few individuals have problems with even the European machines.

I think that the real message to take from your experience is that you've learned that, for you, the tradeoff between cost/features/quality and the assumed risk of a mail order purchase of large machine is not worth it. Other people are willing to take on the risk of assuming a measure of their own support by purchasing sight unseen. It probably is a good idea for a buyer to consider that balance when making a purchase. However, people still have similar problems from time to time with local purchases that require support from the manufacturer. Your local Rikon or Powermatic or Sawstop dealer doesn't usually have a large stock of machines and parts that they can just swap out when you have a problem.

[Richard Coers]

I'll tone down all the details, but the couple of posts I have jumped on are discussions about Grizzly band saws, and this model in particular. They are asking advice about whether or not to buy the Grizzly, or spend the extra money to get the 514X2. Are you suggesting that they are only looking for positive feedback and owners with negative experiences should not post? I thought they were asking for advice and experiences with this model. I also wonder how many people think that if they spend $500 less than another machine, that they might just get something unuseable. Do you buy any new machines with the idea that you might just have to rebuild it before you can use it? Sorry I irritated you Matt.

[Sean Rainaldi]

I have been considering buying the G0514X2 for a few years now – when I get the $. I have a jointer, planer and a ts from them - so far so good.


I have heard recently though - that some folks who have had bad experiences with grizzly equipment and complain to their customer service department and get replacement parts for bad – new machines - get banned from buying grizzly products again. Is this true?

[Richard Coers]

I guess I will find out. I've been buying from them since they opened. Both for myself and more recently for my day job in a model making shop. We have at least $8,000 worth of equipment at work; 2- 1030 dust collectors, 9985 sander, 1071 sander, 9983 sander, and all the flanged dust piping for dust collection. I've had a 10" cabinet table saw, 8" jointer, 3 hp shaper, power feed, umpteen router bits, shaper cutters, metal working tooling and hand tools, at home and when I operated a custom woodworking business. A couple of those at home items were purchased second hand. I've also personally visited with Shiraz at the IWF in Atlanta, when I was shopping for this band saw. So, I would be surprised if I would be banned.

[Van Huskey]

I would buy the Rikon when it is on sale for 999 at Woodcraft, I couldn't pay more since they go on sale pretty regularly. Anyone seen the new flyer, it is about time either the 14" or 18" to go on sale again.

[Joe Shinall]

Richard, it was my other post that you commented on and I am well aware of your issues and hope they get resolved. But I have also seen other posts praising that same saw so I'm thinking you may have got a lemon.

The price now is 1199 at Highland and Van, I think you are right, it is about time they went on sale again at woodcraft. Last time that Highland had them on sale was when woodcraft also had them on sale. I would bite for the 999 all day, but at the 1199 right now, I think the Grizz may be more saw for the price since I get a %10 discount on my order with Grizz. I just haven't heard from anyone with the Rikon and can't find any posts except for back in 07 talking about the adjustment not being great. To many damn decisions! To much good information too!

I spoke with Grizzly today and the 514X2 is on backorder til April 29th. So I would have to wait 2 months. But realistically I am so behind on my refinishing projects right now, I can wait 2 months before I need the saw and just use my Rigid 14" for now to get by. So I guess after posting this and doing alot of research last night and today, I am leaning more towards the Grizz at the moment. I would have to hold off and wait for the Rikon to go on a better sale and lose my %10 off coupon which expires this month.

PREDICAMENT!!!!

Ive just about bandsawed my brain out the past week.

[Doug Colombo]

I have the 14" deluxe Rikon bandsaw and love it. As Van and Joe said - it is about time for them to go back on sale - I bought mine at the local Woodcraft during one of the sales.
Richard - I appreciate both sides of tool reviews, as it give me a better idea what I could be getting into when I make a purchase. Your review tells your experience in a way to help people make an informed decision. When I was looking for a TS, I read what I could on the Grizzly 691, as I was leaning towards that saw. In the end, I blew the budget and bought a Unisaw. In part, my decision was based on a general comment that I read here on the creek about Grizzly quality and that a few people felt that their quality department was a good customer service area, and that the buyer was the service person. My Unisaw required almost no adjustments out of the crate (2 minutes of riving knife centering was it) and went together with no issues. This is not to say that the Grizzly is not a good saw, but I was not willing to take the chance that I got one of the saws that would require me to replace parts on a new saw to get it right.

[Dave MacArthur]

Richard,
Sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction with the Grizzly 514 your received. However, I do agree that perhaps waiting for a reasonable time to actually receive replacement parts and see how Grizzly treats you and deals with your problem, before posting negatives in so many threads, would be more reasonable.
There's a big difference between posting "I got some wheels that had this sort of balance holes drilled in them and this sort of balance weights on them, the saw vibrated badly. I called Grizzly, and two weeks later I had new wheels and the saw runs great", and just the problem part.

It is good to know the info on wheel balance quality control, ie what sort of corrections may be accepted, for the saw, and I'm not pleased to hear what sort of wheels you got--I'd want new ones myself. Hopefully Grizzly will replace them and fix the vibration issue, and then you'll re-hit the threads you posted in and report the improved ending to the story ;) Good luck!

On another note though, I was watching Rough Cut last night, and I couldn't tell for sure, but I was 95% certain that Tommy Mac was using a 14" Rikon bandsaw, which appeared to work nicely on all the shows. Green front doors, white back, logo on top door is taped out though. I thought at first it was 18", but on the shaker table episode you can see that the saw is sitting on top of a closed base, it just has very high resaw. I'd say it's the Rikon 14" that everyone likes. Also, I've only heard generally good things about the Rikon 18".

[Matt Winterowd]

Richard - I appreciate both sides of tool reviews, as it give me a better idea what I could be getting into when I make a purchase. Your review tells your experience in a way to help people make an informed decision. When I was looking for a TS, I read what I could on the Grizzly 691, as I was leaning towards that saw. In the end, I blew the budget and bought a Unisaw. In part, my decision was based on a general comment that I read here on the creek about Grizzly quality and that a few people felt that their quality department was a good customer service area, and that the buyer was the service person. My Unisaw required almost no adjustments out of the crate (2 minutes of riving knife centering was it) and went together with no issues. This is not to say that the Grizzly is not a good saw, but I was not willing to take the chance that I got one of the saws that would require me to replace parts on a new saw to get it right.

Absolutely agree with these remarks. This is what I was trying to say in my second paragraph. I'm not trying to discourage posting negative reviews or invalidate your experience, Richard. Just trying to request a little emotional distance and objectivity and inject some context in the discussion. Things may look very different a couple of weeks from now, and it's certainly not realistic to assume that the same kind of issue couldn't occur with a Rikon or any other tool. I've had it happen.

[Bruce Kohl]

Joe -
I went through the same thing some months back. I was debating between the Grizzly GO514x2 and the Rikon 10-345. My Woodcraft store didn't have the Rikon in stock, so I hadn't seen either machine in person, although I do have a Grizzly planer that I am well satisfied with. I wound-up going with the Rikon when it went on sale for $999. Now that I have it I can say that I think the Rikon is a very nice machine. The fit and finish are good, and the saw runs and cuts beautifully. I have also since seen the 514x2 in person in a friend's shop and had a chance to use it. The 514x2 also is a very nice machine, although I don't think the fit and finish is quite as good as the Rikon - it's a little rougher and the paint is not as nice. I've used a Laguna 20" at the local college shop, and the Rikon to me has the same sold feel as the Laguna, for a whole lot less money.

All that being said, I think both the Rikon and the Grizzly are very nice machines for the price. However, for me getting the Rikon for the sale price was the decider. I read the review in FWM back in November, and I would have to agree that at the usual price the Grizzly 514x2 is the better value in terms of it's features. I like the rack and pinon mechanism for the table tilt, although I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times in the past ten years I've had need to tilt the table on my bandsaw, but it does provide extra support for the table. To me the trunnions are a non-issue (steel vs. cast iron), but the extra 1/2 horse on the Grizzly is nice but not essential - both saws have enough umph to do most jobs we are likely to call on them for. The Grizzly has a slightly larger table which could be useful, and the table is a slight bit heavier on the Grizzly. To me the guides on both saws are about the same - patterned after Carter guides and eqully finicky to adjust (I have the Carter guides on my 14" Rockwell and they're somewhat difficult to adjust as well). Cut capacity is the same on both saws. Both companies have a reputation for good customer service, but the Rikon's warranty is two years instead of one year for the Grizzly. Finally, both saws have significant backorder waits - I had to wait over two months for the Rikon to be delivered.

So, for the price of $1,400 for both in my view the Grizzly is the better bargain. At the $999 price I'd go for the Rikon, as I did. At $1,200 for the Rikon vs. $1,400 for the Grizzly the calculus gets a bit more confusing, although with the 10% off coupon for the Grizzly we're back to roughly equal prices, so the Griz probably wins.

All I can say is good luck, and whichever one you pick I'm sure will work for you very well. I love my Rikon and don't regret the purchase at all. And if you're at all uncertain, it's only about another thousand or so bucks for a Laguna or Mini Max.

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks Bruce, that was some good info. I made my decision and ordered the Griz today. Both were on backorder, the Rikon til April 3rd and the Griz til April 29th so I figured if I had to wait anyways I would go with the Griz. The deciding factors were the extra half horse, the foot brake, the bigger table, and the fence. I like the taller fence on the Grizzly because I will be doing alot of resawing between 8 and 12". I will probably never use the table tilt. I dont cut dovetails except for on my Dovetail jig so that's not a big issue for me with the cast iron trunnion. But both had it so that wasn't an issue anyways.

So I ended up with the G0514X2 and a shelix head for my 15" planer. All together with shipping I paid $1900. Saved about $200, not huge savings but it was enough to make me able to get the shelix and not feel bad about it. So, I guess I can start now and I may have the dust collection run and a spot cleared out for the Griz when it gets here...

[Bruce Kohl]

Joe -
I think you made a good choice. The GO514x2 looks to be a nice machine. It has some good features that some of the others in this price range don't. And with the 10% off coupon it's a sweet deal.

After you've received it and had a chance to put it through it's paces please be sure to post a review - just don't make it so glowing that I regret my Rikon purchase.

Bruce

[Joe Shinall]

Joe -
I think you made a good choice. The GO514x2 looks to be a nice machine. It has some good features that some of the others in this price range don't. And with the 10% off coupon it's a sweet deal.

After you've received it and had a chance to put it through it's paces please be sure to post a review - just don't make it so glowing that I regret my Rikon purchase.

Bruce

I will make sure I put it through a good review process. I have about 20 3" slabs of walnut and about 30 heart pine beams that are going to need to be resawed.

I'll make sure and note every small detail to make you feel ever so horrible and make you Craigslist your Rikon and wait 3 months to get the Griz...

[Shiraz Balolia]

Joe - Thank you for ordering the G0514X2.

While you may not find a need to tilt the table much, the other advantage of having that unique, supported rack and pinion table adjustment is that it increases the rigidity of the table substantially. If you ever have to crosscut a very large and heavy piece of wood, or saw off chunks from a short log, you wil be happy that your saw has that rack and pinion system.

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks Shiraz. That's really good to know, I will be resawing some very heavy beams as soon as I get it. I am glad I went with that saw. I didn't want to skimp and wanted to spend the extra money if needed and I have to say, that saw had all the options I could possibly want. And I own a 15" Griz planer and a 8" Griz jointer and have to say I have been extremely happy with the brand. If I wouldn't have got my Unisaw for such a great price at the time I probably would have ended up with a Griz there as well.

And just to let you know, I have received A class service from your customer support team. I called a few times to ask some questions and was told everything I needed to know. And I sent an email once and received an answer within just a few hours. Just can't wait til April 29th when it should ship!

[Shiraz Balolia]

Just can't wait til April 29th when it should ship!

I would imagine that it will ship sooner than April 29th. I went to the factory yesterday morning and there are several containers of various sizes ready to ship (I am in Taiwan right now). They will be on board a ship by the end of the week.

[Joe Shinall]

I would imagine that it will ship sooner than April 29th. I went to the factory yesterday morning and there are several containers of various sizes ready to ship (I am in Taiwan right now). They will be on board a ship by the end of the week.

I'm crossing my fingers! It would really help me with some deadlines if it came in earlier. Thanks for the info again Shiraz, that is what I call service!!!

[Aaron Berk]

Hey Joe, hows the bandsaw doing?

I'm on the fence with an 18" Rikon purchase right now.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I have a Rikon 10-325 Bandsaw (14" model with 14" resaw) and I like it a lot. The bearing blade guides can be a bit tedious to adjust, but it has never once disappointed me. And the folks at Rikon have blown me away with their support...I needed some advice after moving the saw to a new shop and I left them a message after hours. VP of Tech Support called me at 9am the next morning and made the adjustments crystal clear for me. I just saw that they are putting out a new 14" model with a bigger motor and stiffer support. Also they are selling an aftermarket 2 hp Baldor motor for anyone who wants to make manufacturer supported modifications. Of course you can walk into any woodcraft and buy replacement throat inserts or a motor belt.

I also have a Grizzly G0490 jointer...and you can look up those posts...I won't buy from them again.

Part of the learning process in those purchases was hinted at by Chris in a post back in the thread...never underestimate the benefit of having a local dealer involved. It may not prevent problems with QC or delivery or whatever, but having another agent involved (especially one who wants and respects local customers) to help make things right when they are not, is, as the commercial goes, PRICELESS!

[Aaron Berk]

I've got a Grizzly GO605X and it's been a fabulous tool, so I wasn't really looking for customer service issues.


I'm looking for Joe's opinion about his saw since he's had for a few days

[Kurt Cady]

Joe hasn't been active for 4+ months. Doubt he will see this thread. Maybe a PM will send him an email and notify him to check out this thread...