Dubbed Chisels - I am so very frustrated

[Chris Griggs]

Okay, so I'm about to rant about a set of Ashley Chisels I just bought from the Creek classifieds. On the off chance the seller reads this let me go on the record as saying that I in no way blame them for my dissatisfaction or the condition of the tool. They described the chisels (of which they were the 2nd owner and had never used themselves) to the best of their ability and clearly didn't realize the mess the original owner had made of them.

Ok ready set.... Here goes my rant...

I was oh so excited when I found a 6 piece set of AI butt chisels for only $90. They arrived at work yesterday and I opened the box to see that the original ding bat owner (not the guy I bought them from) had tried to polish out all the tool marks, with what was likely some kind of power buffing wheel. The result...

Every fricken edge on the chisels is DUBBED. The sides, DUBBED. The beveled edges, DUBBED. The actual bevel, DUBBED. and worst of all.... the back of the cutting edge DUBBED and BACK-BEVELED. Not that it matters but on top of it they had buffed the AI print off of all but one of the chisels.

Seriously, WHY WHY WHY would anyone do that to such a lovely set chisels. I am sooooooooooo VERY FRUSTRATED. I've already spent a couple hours lapping the back of 2 of the 6 chisels on 100 grit sandpaper and still can't get them flat.

Not sure what else to do. Guessing I will need to actually grind off a 1/16 inch to get past the actual back bevel, which should be very fun seeing as I don't own any power grinding equipment. Or maybe I'll just cut my losses and sell them for an extra discounted rate. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!

Suggestions?????

[Tri Hoang]

I bought some (Pfeil) chisels that were in similar condition with their backs totally messed up. A 40-grit belt on a belt sander (stationary) followed by 220 diamond stone restored them in less than an hour. Lesson learned...I totally understand your frustration. However, sandpaper isn't exactly an ideal medium for reshaping them. 1/16" is nothing with a grinder but a real pain without.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I, myself, have been very slow to learn the lesson about cheap tools. Hey you are only in for $90 so far...its hardly a woodworking endeaver until you cross the century mark! This one screams for you to double down.

Get a grinder, replace the crap wheel for good ones and build a jig...its a useful too to have in the shop.

[Chris Griggs]

You guys are absolutely correct. I'm not setup for this kind of rehab.

The HILARIOUS part of all this is that the money I spent on these was originally budgeted to go towards some power grinding equipment which, because I bought these (ok these and a bunch of stuff from Lee Valley) will now have to wait.

Such a lovely paradox. Could of had the grinding equipment if I had passed on these chisels, but until I got these chisels didn't really NEED the power grinding equipment.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Ooh that's just awful. That's like hearing about failed plastic surgery horror stories. I just got an old 1" chisel that's dubbed about 3/16" on the cutting edge and about the same along one side on the back, and have been thinking about how to solve this problem. Recently I was doing some remodeling and pounded on a 1/4" construction-grade chisel till actually started to bend. So I bent it back. I'm thinking that with the use of some judiciously placed wood or metal splints, and some of the subtle persuasion of the ball pein variety, that I might be able to alleviate the dubbing. I have it on good authority that when Japanese chisels get used up to the point where the hollow on the back meets the cutting edge, that they give the bevel a sharp rap with a hammer so that the back becomes more concave and they're able to get a nice consistent edge again. It does seem like you got something that maybe should be returnable though.

[george wilson]

Japanese chisels aren't made of hardened steel. Just the very thin welded in bit is hardened. The rest is soft steel,and you can bend it. I do not advise trying to hammer on a Western style chisel. If you got by with hammering your bent one:1; it bent because it wasn't properly made of decent steel,and 2; it wasn't fully hardened,so it could be bent some. A properly made chisel would break if you tried beating on it.

[Jonathan McCullough]

It was a beater, commonly available, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit soft. The AI's I have definitely feel harder. How do they laminate the soft steel to the hard steel without ruining the temper on the hardened steel?

[Ray Gardiner]

Guessing I will need to actually grind off a 1/16 inch to get past the actual back bevel, which should be very fun seeing as I don't own any power grinding equipment. Or maybe I'll just cut my losses and sell them for an extra discounted rate. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!

Suggestions?????

1/16" doesn't sound like very much to lose on the length? Not sure why that should even be a problem. Dubbing on the sides could be more critical, the essential thing is to have a flat surface to register the cut. I wouldn't touch the sides if any of your work requires that the chisels be a particular width, nothing worse than a 1/2" chisel that's not quite 1/2".... :)

So I imagine the critical area is the bottom side edges, can you get a full width edge after regrinding the primary bevel? If not it might be time to find someone with a surface grinder.. and take a few passes over the whole length of the back.

What am I missing?

Regards
Ray

[Russell Sansom]

I think he means he has to reduce the chisels back by 1/16", which is just this side of impossible without a surface grinder or annealing it and filing it flat and re-hardening. George says you get to do this once, maybe.
All this is quite a bit for a WW without a grinder...possibly not super fluent at the grinder, therefore.

If I were the OP, I'd use these for opening paint cans or stick them on an auction site with an honest description and look further for a set that can actually be put into service.

[Chris Griggs]

1/16" doesn't sound like very much to lose on the length? Not sure why that should even be a problem. Dubbing on the sides could be more critical, the essential thing is to have a flat surface to register the cut. I wouldn't touch the sides if any of your work requires that the chisels be a particular width, nothing worse than a 1/2" chisel that's not quite 1/2".... :)

So I imagine the critical area is the bottom side edges, can you get a full width edge after regrinding the primary bevel? If not it might be time to find someone with a surface grinder.. and take a few passes over the whole length of the back.

What am I missing?


Ray

Not missing anything. Grinding 1/16 of the tip (not the back) and flattening the back would likley make them into a good set of chisels. Probably wouldn't be a big deal if I had a belt sander and wheel grinder... But I don't.

I'm just frustrated because the chisels aren't in the condition I thought they were and will require quite a bit more work than I anticipated. Right now I'm thinking I'll hang on to them for a couple months and fix them up once I buy a grinder or Worksharp OR I'll just repost them in the classifieds with a description of the issues and see what I can get.

The issues probably wouldn't be a big deal for someone with proper grinding equipment.

[Chris Griggs]

Just spent some time on the 3rd chisel (1/2"). The corners of the back of the cutting edge are also dubbed, but this one doesn't seem as bad as the first two. Actually I think the one I started with (1/4") was the worst one in terms of the dubbing. More and more I'm thinking that if I just grind 1/32 to 1/16 of the tip, they will be fine. I have a friend near by with a wheel grinder and a Tormek so if I enlist his help it might not be to bad.

I'm still a bit disappointed but the situation may be easier to fix then I thought when I first posted last night.

I think the part that is frustrating me the most is that because AI chisels are ground concave the entire back is flattening up with very little work, WITH the the exception of the most important part.... the actually cutting edge (specifically the corners of the cutting edge). It's annoying to think that these are the way they are because of abuse.

[jamie shard]

I will say this: once you get these chisels tuned up, they will be YOURS in a very special way. Kinda like a problem child that you finally get straightened out. Hang in there, these will probably will become one of your favorite tools!