Wide 2" thick wood. Good for guitars?

[dirk martin]

Ok, I've got some 2" thick wood that I was going to resaw for a bunch of different projects, then someone told me that the size of those boards may be of interest to guitar makers.

Now, I know nothing about guitar making. I've only got one board of each Poplar, and Ash, and each is about 14" wide or wider, and like I said, 2" thick. Are Poplar and Ash used for guitars? Bass guitars I assume?

[Dave MacArthur]

Dirk,
folks making electric guitars often use a cheaper wood, ash is popular, for the body, and then put a 1/2" or so skin on top for the face of some figured wood. The wide thick slabs you have would allow them to have a body without glueup. However, since the cheaper-wood body is usually painted some opaque color and the top is usually book-matched, I personally don't see any huge value in not gluing up what is essentially just painted structure.

I wouldn't be looking for a wide thick slab for a guitar body unless it was some wood I wanted to to show as the top layer and visible throughout due to some particular beauty.

[John Coloccia]

Ok, I've got some 2" thick wood that I was going to resaw for a bunch of different projects, then someone told me that the size of those boards may be of interest to guitar makers.

Now, I know nothing about guitar making. I've only got one board of each Poplar, and Ash, and each is about 14" wide or wider, and like I said, 2" thick. Are Poplar and Ash used for guitars? Bass guitars I assume?

To be of any real interest, the boards are going to have to be very clear and have reasonably straight grain. The Poplar is uninteresting. As Dave said, if I were going to use poplar, I would certainly have a top of some other wood and the poplar itself would be painted, so I would never spend money on wide boards like that.

The Ash, on the other hand, if the grain looks good and the piece is clear, would be of value to someone making Strats and Telecasters....especially Telecasters. Now, I don't know where you live and where you got that board, but if it's a particularly light weight piece of ash, then you get to call it "swamp ash", and it will be highly sought after by builders. When ash grows quickly, as it does in very wet climates (i.e. Swamps), it will be much lighter than a typical ash tree (which is dense as all heck). Much of these trees and swampy areas have been cleared out over the years, and those that haven't have been called "wetlands", so the so-called swamp ash has become very rare. However, you still find some trees that could legitimately be called swamp ash. I would expect to find these anywhere in the country where you get lots of rain and a good long growing season.

[dirk martin]

ok, now I'm understanding.
So, if I glued up some Poplar, or Basswood, to get to 15" in width, and then bookmatched some fancy curly maple or birdseye on top of it...there would be interest, right? What's the desired thickness of that fancy top layer?

[John Coloccia]

ok, now I'm understanding.
So, if I glued up some Poplar, or Basswood, to get to 15" in width, and then bookmatched some fancy curly maple or birdseye on top of it...there would be interest, right? What's the desired thickness of that fancy top layer?

I don't think anyone would pay a dime over what the wood itself is worth. If I'm skilled enough to build a guitar, I'm certainly skilled enough to glue a couple of boards together and put a book matched top on it. There is a market for preshaped bodies with all the routes already done. Unless you really know what you're doing, I don't think you want to play around with that. You could easily end up with a pile of firewood by messing up just one little detail. If you really want to sell it for instruments, I think your best bet would be to surface it (joint and plane...it should start out flat), and turn it into rectangles that are 14" wide and about 20" or 21" long. They must end up at least 1 3/4" thick after surfacing. Then sell it like that locally on an instrument builder's forum, or maybe even Craigslist. You may find someone to take them off your hands. If it were Swamp Ash, you might expect to get maybe $80 for a nice piece. Not sure what poplar would command. Regular ash will command less.

But to answer your question, if the top is flat I usually keep the top right around 1/4", or maybe 3/16". 1/4" certainly if there's no binding. Less if there is binding (certainly no thicker than the binding I intend to use). If it's to be carved, I like to start somewhere around 1". Total body thickness can be anything thick enough to attach the neck securely and install electronics. For example, I think a Gibson SG comes in somewhere around 1 1/4". Carve top Les Pauls can get close to 2 1/2" thick total at the peak. I'm just going from memory here, so don't shoot me if my numbers are off a little!

[dirk martin]

I don't think anyone would pay a dime over what the wood itself is worth.

Well, that's just it. Maybe most people are paying upwards of $6/BF for 2" thick wood...and maybe I can get it for $2/BF. That difference, gives me something to sell.



If I'm skilled enough to build a guitar, I'm certainly skilled enough to glue a couple of boards together and put a book matched top on it.

Here again...maybe you can't get bookmatched purpleheart, or maybe you don't have some fancy birdseye maple to laminate on top. It's not neccessarily about the skill, but the access to to fancy wood, at a low price. And I think that's my nitch.



I think your best bet would be to surface it (joint and plane...it should start out flat), and turn it into rectangles that are 14" wide and about 20" or 21" long. They must end up at least 1 3/4" thick after surfacing. Then sell it like that locally on an instrument builder's forum, or maybe even Craigslist. You may find someone to take them off your hands. If it were Swamp Ash, you might expect to get maybe $80 for a nice piece. Not sure what poplar would command. Regular ash will command less.

So, you think I'm better off selling the cleaned up blank, and not mess around with laminating a top on it? Ok....that works for me.

[Chris Fournier]

Well, that's just it. Maybe most people are paying upwards of $6/BF for 2" thick wood...and maybe I can get it for $2/BF. That difference, gives me something to sell.




Here again...maybe you can't get bookmatched purpleheart, or maybe you don't have some fancy birdseye maple to laminate on top. It's not neccessarily about the skill, but the access to to fancy wood, at a low price. And I think that's my nitch.




So, you think I'm better off selling the cleaned up blank, and not mess around with laminating a top on it? Ok....that works for me.

You are heading down a path that has been very well trodden! I don't really think that you are in a niche at all and I don't mean this as an insult but experience speaks loudly. You are reinventing the wheel or coming late to the party as they would say.

Also remeber that your clientel will be people who want to make their own stuff and they are very aware of the material costs invloved in guitar building - they will ask you why they should pay $80 when the wood is $2 bft! Everyone wants to capture the value added $$$ in any venture.

[dirk martin]

So, even though I see 2" x 20" x 15" White Ash and Poplar blanks selling on eBay for $50, I shouldn't try selling the same at $35?
What am I missing?

[Wes Grass]

I'm not sure you're missing anything. Check what LMI charges for a body blank, and a top blank, and the service charge for gluing them up.

I'm guessing there are a few people out there who don't have the ability to flatten and glue up something like this, and get a good bookmatch and 'invisible' glue joint in the process. Give them something bandsaw and router ready, milled to their desired thickness. And maybe you can offer a wider variety of top woods as well.

[dirk martin]

That's what I thought, too, Wes. That's why some of the other replies were throwing me....
Maybe some of those other replies, are from folks that are doing exactly this, and they don't want the competition from me :-)

So, let's say I glue up some 2" Poplar, or Basswood, and then laminate a nice 15" one piece of Purpleheart, 1/4" thick....
Is that the type of thing guitar makers want? Figure the blank being 20" x 2" x 15".

[Chris Fournier]

Dirk, I mean no offense but your scheme is not very sound right out of the blocks. You are correct I once did do this type of business for myself and as a contractor for another company but no longer so competition is not a concern.

If you were sitting on a pile of the lightest prettiest swamp ash around or perhaps beautifully figured maples and equisite mahoganies etc then I think that you might be able to sell some blanks over the web. But right off the bat you are selling poplar and basswood - good luck, these are not desirable guitar species, neither is standard white ash by the way. If you hope to sell your product sight unseen - eBay - then its going to have to be spectacular not plain. Don't forget that disappointed Paypal buyers can yank the money right out of your hands and likely not even have to send you your wood back - can you afford this?

As for your blank size, it would be good for a tele but really too tight for a strat or most basses - your prospective market just shrunk again. 2" thick, how do you plan to reliably get this when you will be using 8/4 lumber? I don't know many who would want a 2" thick guitar either - thinner is lighter which is usually desirable.

I'm not saying "don't do it!" but I am saying "test the waters" before you jump on in. This forum is hardly the place (my opinion included) to look for great business advice. Take a look at the companies out there doing this already and try to understand their business model and service. Remember that for every finished blank you are leaving a lot of waste on the shop floor and customers don't want to hear about an OK blank, they want a great blank which has you culling even more stock! In my experience, especially with your business model, you are seeing $$$ where there are none.

Let us know how you make out!

[Mike Package]

Dang I just typed a reply and it disappeared - let me try again...

Since an ebay/Paypal account is free, I don't see that it would hurt to give it a try if you've already got the wood and tools. Yeah, there's lots of competition but what else is new...

As somebody who has been buying blanks lately instead of raw lumber, my main criteria are:

1. Clear, lightweight wood.
2. Invisible glue lines on multi-piece bodies.
3. Nicely finished surfaces - sanded to 120, dead flat/parallel.
4. Reasonable shipping/good packing.

My personal favorite is Warmoth.

Buy a 2-pc swamp ash blank from them as 'market research' and you'll see where the bar is set, IMO.

[dirk martin]

Chris, I thought these guitar builders are laminating a fancy top, on top of the large blank? So, why does it matter if the large blank is "fancy" or not?

Something about what you are saying, just isn't stacking up.

I just put two blanks up for sale, one was plain 'ol Poplar, and the other, glued up maple. Neither had character. But the Poplar was one piece and the maple had a perfectly tight glue line. Both just sold for $38 and $55. Both sanded to 150g to 1 7/8", and 21" long, and 14-15" wide. So....most of what you are writing just doesn't seem to be the case.

I've sold other things on eBay for over a decade. Nobody's ever "yanked" anything from me via PayPal.

Don't worry Chris....there's room for both of us....

[Chris Fournier]

As I said Dirk I don't sell guitar woods much any more, if I do it's incidental business with previous clients and its mostly exotics and spruce used on acoustics and archtops.

Your business will not be taking any food off of my table but I hope that it provides food for yours! Good luck.

[dirk martin]

Thanks, Chris.
This is just a hobby for me anyway, not really a business.
When I run into huge lumber like this, it'll be interesting to see if luthiers can use it.
You've provided me with much thought.
Thanks again.