Yet Another First Table Saw....Advice

[Ben Althaus]

First of all...greetings to all of you. I have been lurking for quite a while and joined recently. I have decided to get into woodworking..mainly shelving, built-ins around the house, adirondack(sp) chairs for deck and ultimately joinery projects like jewelry boxes, etc with some of the more decorative dovetail templates, plus whatever other projects tickle my fancy.

After much reading and budget conscious web searching I have narrowed it down to the Grizzly G0715P or the 1023RL. My father has several Grizzly products and they have served him well. The main hang-up is that this will probably be the first and last table saw that I will purchase. Powermatic, Jet, Delta(unisaw), Sawstop are just simply out of my budget. I have been searching Craigslist for months in a 150 + mile radius and have not come up with anything worth traveling for.

Will I notice the difference between the 2hp and 3hp?
More importantly will I notice the difference in the Chinese vs Taiwanese manufacturing (industrialization) in regards to Grizzly TS's?
Thanks in advance

[Jim Rimmer]

I don't have one of those models but I do have a Grizzly TS and I find the quality very good. I'm sure owners of those models will chime in and you will probably be told to keep searching CL. Good luck and welcome to the Creek.

[Matt Roth]

Yep, keep searching CL. I've been watching the same market for some time and have seen several deals come and go. I just picked up a Uni for $450 within 150 miles of Louisville. Check frequently, because the deals come and go very quickly!

For example:
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/2238802871.html

[Steve Schoene]

The location of manufacturing isn't significant, what is significant is how the specs were written and how serious the importer is about quality control. Grizzly has a relatively good rep in that regard. I would seriously aim for the 1023. The G0715P is a hybrid saw--a contractor saw in a closed cabinet. It won't hold alignment quite as well as the cabinet saw and the alignment process is significantly more difficult. (Look in the on-line manuals in the maintenance sections for the two saws--the 1023 has trunnions that are much heavier than the 0714 which has it's tilt and elevation mechanisms on rods.) I suspect that though they look similar, the fence on the 1023 is a heavier Beismeyer clone than the one on the hybrid saw.

[Bret Duffin]

I have the G1023SLX which is the precursor to the RLX. I think the X designates the longer extension rails for the wide rip capacity. It's a great saw with the 3hp motor. I've had the saw for about two years and I bought it used. I have had and used extensively Powermatic Model 66 saws with 3 and 5 hp and also Unisaws. The Unisaws I had were old and right tilt, I didn't like them. In my opinion the Grizzly is equal to the Powermatics which is a good saw. I still have one old Unisaw that I fitted with a Beisemeyer fence, it's a backup saw.

The complaints I have with the Grizzly are:

The Shop Fox fence is very accurate but also very heavy and too long. It came with a Teflon like fence rub which I hated and replace with good old hardrock maple.

The saw arbor threads are too tight and changing the blades is more difficult than it should be.


Get the three horse power, two is not enough.

Bret

[scott spencer]

Ben - I've gone from a direct drive Delta compact saw to a GI 2hp contractor saw, to a 1-3/4hp hybrid, to a 3hp Shop Fox cabinet saw. The difference in power is indeed noticeable, but the increase in mass is just as noticeable....plus the G1023RL is easier to align, and is more robust. There's little argument that the cabinet saw is the more substantial saw, but that doesn't mean that the G0715P won't suit your needs....both my contractor saw and my hybrid saw will plenty capable of the tasks that a hobbyist like me ever needed. However, since you'd like it to be the last saw you ever own, I'd advise biting the bullet and getting the 1023 if you can swing the price difference. The cabinet saw is more robust, will make the cuts more easily, is a pleasure to use, is more stable, should hold value better, and should have better long term reliability.

Here's a look under the hood of the G1023RL:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/g1023rl_det1.jpg

Here's a look at the guts of the former Grizzly G0478 hybrid (not exactly like the G0715P, but closer than the G1023RL):
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/g0478_trunnions.jpg

[Cary Falk]

Scott,
Weren't you told not to push Cabinet saws once today somewhere else even though it might be what the OP wants?:D



I, on the other hand, am a proud owner of the G1023RL and willl push all I want.;)

[scott spencer]

Scott,
Weren't you told not to push Cabinet saws once today somewhere else even though it might be what the OP wants?:D

I, on the other hand, am a proud owner of the G1023RL and willl push all I want.;)

Basically...yes, but you see how much good it did! :D

[Keith Hankins]

Congrats on the new purchase decision its an important one. I would consider my TS the central part of my shop. I have the Griz 1023slx with 7' rails I've had for close to 8 years. It's served me extremely well and been moved across country twice and back and survived just fine. Go for a cabinet saw they take up the same room. The more the HP the less she will bog down in the thick stuff. I have a 3hp and she's done all i've asked of her. Now lets talk turkey though. If Were doing it today and mone was no object, I'd get the Saw stop hands down due to the safety, but I do understand the budget situation. Second choice would be to keep looking on craigslist (www.searchtempest.com (http://www.searchtempest.com)) and wait for an old piece of american iron to show up. Another site is irsacutions.com (its not the internal revenew service but an industrial auction site) You can get them at good prices and there is no comparison between the old stuff and today's stuff. If you absolutely can't wait then the griz should serve you well. Good luck!

[David Hostetler]

The difference in power is noticable sure, but like was mentioned above, more importantly is the difference in mass. I would go with a 3HP cabinet saw if I could...

Having said that, I would suggest you look at the Grizzly G0690 or G0691 (same saw, different rails). Those are getting rave reviews, and are fitted with a riving knife, which beats a splitter hands down...

Not everything I have gotten from Grizzly was top notch, but the one exception I did get from them that bombed, they made good on... So no big deal... I would not hesitate to buy from them again...

[Cary Falk]

[QUOTE=David Hostetler;1650500]Having said that, I would suggest you look at the Grizzly G0690 or G0691 (same saw, different rails). Those are getting rave reviews, and are fitted with a riving knife, which beats a splitter hands down...

QUOTE]

????? G1023RL has a riving knife. The older model did not.

[Aaron Berk]

Cabinet saw, hands down!

And the HP is something you won't regret either, go 3hp :D

[John TenEyck]

Did anyone mention a used Unisaw, Powermatic, etc. I got a used 1950 Uni for next to nothing and put less than $200 into it. It's a beautiful machine. Made in America and parts are readily available - still. Riving knife? I made three different height splitters for my saw and have no problems. Takes 15 seconds to change. Zero clearance inserts are easy to make out of 1/2" baltic birch plywood using the metal one as a template. I understand the appeal of shiney new machines, but I personally don't see the advantage of spending all that money for a new saw that is no better than one you can buy used for cheap. The technology and quality are no better and often worse. Only SawStop offers something truely new, IMO. Everyone complains about foreign competition taking away our manufacturing jobs, and then I read threads like this that discuss which import to buy.

Sorry for the rant. It wasn't intended as an attack, just an observation.

[Cary Falk]

Everyone complains about foreign competition taking away our manufacturing jobs, and then I read threads like this that discuss which import to buy.

Sorry for the rant. It wasn't intended as an attack, just an observation.

The new Unisaw excluded, everybody is made overseas including SawStop. Buying used doesn't create jobs either.

[Russell Smallwood]

The new Unisaw excluded, everybody is made overseas including SawStop. Buying used doesn't create jobs either.

And I would add that buying new creates jobs for people here that work in assembly/quality control/Accounting/Sales/marketing departments at the "manufacturer's" facilities where the products are sold, tested, and serviced.

[John TenEyck]

The new Unisaw excluded, everybody is made overseas including SawStop. Buying used doesn't create jobs either.

They moved overseas in order to be able to compete with foreign manufacturers, because customers (us) didn't value "made in America" as much as price. We, as consumers and as stock holders, drove those decisions. And try that argument that buying new foreign made tools supports jobs in America on some manufacturing folks who lost their jobs when their company shipped their jobs overseas.

[scott spencer]

[QUOTE=David Hostetler;1650500]Having said that, I would suggest you look at the Grizzly G0690 or G0691 (same saw, different rails). Those are getting rave reviews, and are fitted with a riving knife, which beats a splitter hands down...

QUOTE]

????? G1023RL has a riving knife. The older model did not.

The G1023"RL" series and G0690/0691 having riving knives. The older G1023"S" series did not have riving knives.

[Rod Sheridan]

The new Unisaw excluded, everybody is made overseas including SawStop. Buying used doesn't create jobs either.

General is made in Canada, not overseas.

My only advice when buying machinery is to spend more than you originally planned.

I've never regretted buying more, I've always regretted (and replaced) lesser items..............Regards, Rod.

[Chris Padilla]

I'm seeing some political responses here...please stick to the topic.

[Richard Dooling]

Ben,

I've lifted this from a thread I started along these lines. I looked at a number of saws and you may want to give this a look.

"Then I found the General International 50-200R MI for $999 and though a relatively new saw a very interesting option. It’s less powerful (2 vs. 3 hp) and slightly smaller but still it should meet my needs. It has the important options I want like the riving knife, cabinet mounted trunnions, a decent looking fence and a strong throat plate.

Although this is General’s off-shore product, I found a PW review of General International that says they have teams on-site overseas to monitor quality. So hopefully things like arbor run-out and table flatness are in acceptable ranges.

One feature in a lot of newer saws is a blade shroud with a dust hose mount and it turns out it has that too.

So I feel like I’m taking a bit of a chance but they had this in stock at my Woodcraft and I looked it over today. It looks like a very nicely made machine. Turns out it was also offered at 10% off. That’s $900 plus tax and no delivery charge since I can pick it up. That’s also a big plus for me because my driveway is very steep a freight deliveries generally drop at the curb. "

I should be picking it up this weekend.

Good luck,
Richard

[Ben Althaus]

Thank you everyone for your advice, thoughts and input.
Richard; I call the local wood craft today and after talking to the person, explaining my $1100 to $1300 budget she promptly told me about an $1850 50" Jet Exacta. She said that they dont stock GI but had Saw Stop, PM and Jet in the store.

I think that after much reading searching etc.... that I will end up with the 1023RL. Heavier saw, more HP, cabinet trunions, dust collection all seem worth the extra $300-ish fun tickets.

Thanks again.

[Richard Dooling]

Hi Ben,

It's all a little daunting when you're buying on a budget isn't it?! I looked seriously at the Jet but it's more saw than I can justify right now. Oh - those many years ago when I had a shop I had a PM 66 and loved it; but I don't have a commercial shop now and my current shop doesn't have sole call on my wallet. I also considered the Grizzlys but the General International looked like a better option for me right now.

All I can hope for is that we are both happy with our choices and I think there's a pretty good chance of that. It's not like there's only one or two good saws out there. Heck I've done a lot with my contractor's saw.

Time to stop fretting over specs and start making stuff!!

Enjoy - we are the lucky ones and privileged enough.:cool:

.

[Ben Althaus]

Richard,
Yeah no kidding...time to get on with it and start making some sawdust.
You are right though there are several nice options in the price range. If my local WoodCraft had something other than $3000 table saws I would definitely go look at them. Thought about the Shop Fox w1819 as well but I have read good things about the serpentine belt vs the 3 belt.