pad printing cliches by laser ?

[Jani Pedersen]

Is it possible to make a cliche using the laser ? I'm not sure what material would be used for it, but it would be so much easier to laser engrave than make cliches the usual way.

Thanks :)

[Doug Griffith]

Check out here: http://www.inkcups.com/supplies/laser-plates/Default.aspx

[Jani Pedersen]

Just found that too very interesting, now trying to source a supplier in the UK.

Was wondering if Delrin would work too ....

[Richard Rumancik]

Jani, I don't think you will have too much luck making a cliche from a raw sheet of plastic. The reason is that the depth of the "pocket" has to be around 25 microns (say about .001"). The tolerance is only a few microns. So in my opinion it would be pretty difficult to maintain that depth and tolerance, and to be able to measure the result.

By using a purchased laser cliche, which is backed by metal, the thickness of the coating will basically control the depth of the etch. As long as power was controlled within reason, you would not have to worry about depth control.

Are you thinking about getting into the business, or supplying cliches? If so I would suggest using only laser-cliches and working with a pad printer to perfect your process. The companies that sell laser cliches also sell lasers to mark them, and will probably suggest that your standard laser won't work the best to do this. That may be true, but it's worth a try.

ITW is also into this market.
http://www.itwtranstech.com/Products/Laser/LaserEtchingFAQs/tabid/844/Default.aspx

[Larry Bratton]

"Are you thinking about getting into the business, or supplying cliches? If so I would suggest using only laser-cliches and working with a pad printer to perfect your process. The companies that sell laser cliches also sell lasers to mark them, and will probably suggest that your standard laser won't work the best to do this. That may be true, but it's worth a try.

On your link they show a 10watt, air cooled, CO2 machine. Jani has that covered with her 35w Epilog. Doesn't look like there is much to it.

[Richard Rumancik]

Larry, I agree, I think it should work. Here is what ITW says:

"Can any laser marking unit produce pad printing plates?

Maybe. It depends on its manufacturer, unit specifications and plate material. It also depends on how much time and expense you may want to spend on research and development. Trying to re-purpose your marking laser to make pad printing clichés may seem like a good idea on paper. But when you’re running a busy production schedule the savings may not outweigh the risks. Trial-and-error methods tend to eat up lots of time and materials, especially if you are trying to re-invent the wheel. When there are known suppliers with tested materials and processes available, why waste time and money?"

But compared to buying another laser, a little R&D would be inexpensive. I think you can get plates for less than $10 each to experiment with. But I was suggesting to Jani that she work with someone who knows pad printing (if she doesn't) to refine the process. I was interested in doing this myself but discovered that there weren't enough pad printers in my area to be customers. Plus of course they have money invested in conventional photographic solutions to platemaking. For a small in-house pad print operation it might work. But Jani did not state her intentions.

[Jani Pedersen]

Hiya,

It would be for my own use., I have a dtg printer and would rather print my own 'non tag' labels in the neck than have the standard tshirt ones or have some made. I do already have the tools to make the photopolymer plates, just never done so and thought it would make sense to try out the laser engravable ones as this a) reduces time and b) stops the need for chemicals oh and c) I gather gives a better impression due to the tones you can get.

I've been in touch with inkcups and hoping to get a sample sent to me - I'm pretty sure that if I ended needing a large print run from them that I'd get an acid etched cliche done, but I really like the idea of being able to fiddle around with a number of different images etc on other products too, which take so little time to make / print.

Thanks :)

Jani

[Larry Bratton]

Richard,
I absolutely see your point. I was just trying to convey info to the forum to anyone that was interested. I actually saw another site that sells the material that showed a private labeled (with their name and logo) on an Epilog machine for sale, so, point is, nothing special required. I have no interest in pad printing, as I have heard it is very competitive and the work goes pretty cheap.

[Richard Rumancik]

Jani, that sounds like a possible application. I may have been a bit incorrect saying that the thickness of the coating layer controls the etch depth. Obviously you can etch less than full depth but then you are in a gray (scale) area. If you want to try to make fine tones, then this might take a bit of work. ITW and others suggest that you can etch say 10 microns deep but it might be difficult to hold the necessary control on the laser to do that consistently. So if you just wanted to print line art and text, I'd say that it should be possible to find settings that work as you could just go full depth. But if you want to do shading and half-toning and such it might take some time and it may not be easily reproducible i.e settings one day might not work another day. I got the impression that they use very low power and multiple passes but I'm not sure how you measure etch depth. I'd want to measure it before I removed it from the laser as you'll never re-align exactly. Maybe you know how to check etch depth on cliches?

But have a go at it and be sure to let us know what you discover so we can all learn.

[Dan Hintz]

I've never use a cliche before, but wouldn't shading be done via fine line art, not depth?

[Nick Benton]

Tampoprint makes some laser engravable cliches...Have a question about those myself...They list a new Magnet Microflex Intaglio that etches to a depth of 60 microns...I wonder if it could actually be used on an intaglio press?

Oh yea...first post here! Seems like there are quite a few experienced engravers here, looking forward to getting my first laser soon...

[Mike Null]

Nick

Welcome to SMC. hurry up with that laser purchase.:)