Shop rag safety

[Tim Thiebaut]

I havnt seen this discussed here and it has been on my mind so thought I would start a conversation on this topic. Until recently I have used Mylands frictin polish on most everything I have turned. It is easy and I had enough to learn at first without worrying about 10 different finishs.

Recently I picked up some paste wax and some WOP and have started branching and learning more about finishes. The WOP says on the can that used rags can instantanously combust and am more then a little concerned about this. I dont have one of those steel rag drums and they are fairly costly so I havnt invested in one. The directions say to dispose of the rag in an approved container with water in it. This morning I put my used WOP rag inside of my used nitril glove, filled it with water and tied it off, and carried it outside to the trash bin that is kept outside the house.

How do you all dispose/store your used rags that are contaminated with combustable chems on them? Should a storage drum be high on my prority list? Thanks for all input, Tim

[David E Keller]

It's a good topic, Tim. I don't have a combustion canister in my shop, so I spread the shop towels out on the concrete floor away from everything. BLO is another potential combustion hazard as are most oil based finishes I believe.

[Johnny Taylor]

If I'm using a cloth to apply one of these finishes(danish oil is another example) I put it outside when I've finished turning for a day or two, if I've been using paper towels/kitchen paper they go straight in a small container of water and then in the trash. I've not yet seen a piece get hot but you can't be to careful.

[Rick Markham]

Tim, almost all oil based finishes are subject to this problem. The problem is as they dry slowly, it is an exothermic reaction (they produce heat) when you get a bunch of oil soaked rags together they can heat up to the flash point, that's when a fire starts. I really only use small pieces of rags 2" or 3" square at a time, especially with WOP. I never throw them away when they are wet, they sit out by themselves (like David's) until they are dry then get disposed of in an outside garbage can. (I also am not throwing out lots of rags soaked in any finish.)

big clumps of oily rags, is asking for problems, I don't run a production shop, furniture refinishing business, or an auto shop, so letting the little bits of material I use for finishing to dry before disposing of them should minimize the risks.

[Fred Perreault]

I have a cast-off wood scrap pile on the ground just outside my shop door.... close by for the Winter, but they make it all the way to the wood pile in the Summer. Near that, I have a pile of rags on the ground where I toss the used oily rags at the end of the day. Then, when I occasionally take the trash barrels to the dump (every 2-3 weeks) I gather the rags off the ground.... and outta the trees and from hither and yon :) :) and take them to the dump also. My family and friends supply me with shop rags from all kinds of fabric sources. 2 of my sisters actually tear into squares the old sheets and pillow cases. You can't even buy help like that anymore. Spontaneous combustion, to say nothing of the fumes, should not be treated lightly. :) :)

[Jon McElwain]

I've got a little tin can that I fill with oily rags while I am using the oil products. At the end of the project, I walk the tin out to the back yard and burn them. If time or weather etc. do not allow this, I'll just unfold the rags and hang them loosely over the edge of the garbage can. My understanding is that most of these types of fires occur where a lot of rags are stored in a closed container where the fumes and heat can build up. By actually burning most of my rags, I never have to worry about spontaneous combustion, and no oil waste from my rags ends up in a landfill. BTW, usually when I hang the rags over the edge of the garbage can it is in cold temps, not the 100+ degree days we get in the summer here in Colorado.

[Cody Colston]

This is a recurring topic on this and other ww forums. There are several ways to handle rags soaked with a drying oil. They can be hung on a fence to dry, spread out on the shop floor or driveway, thrown into a canister of water, placed in a made-for-purpose combustibles container or, in rural areas, thrown onto the burn pile. :)

I have a sink and running water in my shop so I just wash mine with Dawn detergent, wring out and hang somewhere in the shop to dry. Once they are dry (and stiff) I throw them in with the regular shop trash.

Any drying oil, like BLO, or any product containing a drying oil can spontaneously combust under the right conditions. It's better to be safe than sorry when handling rags or paper towels that are coated with them.

[Ed Morgano]

I use paper towels almost exclusively and I take them outside and burn them when I'm finished with them. If i do use cloth towels, I too wash them out with dawn and let them dry. Can't be too careful with oily rags.

[Scott Hackler]

I use a lot of BLO and mostly with paper towels. I started placing the current days used towels in a metal paint can. I figure if it does catch fire it wont burn up anything but those towels. The next time I am finishing something I just remove the well dried towels from the last time and throw them away in the trash can.

[Jim Heikes]

Just 2 cents worth (and some plagiarism) from a retired chemist

Spontaneous combustion is caused by the heating of the material to its auto ignition temperature. This happens in certain conditions when the surface area exposed to the air is low so that the dissipation of the heat cannot take place. As the heat cannot be dissipated to the outside atmosphere, it keeps on increasing the temperature of the material untill it bursts into flames. Also the more the insulating nature of the material, the more the chances of spontaneous ignition.

The cause of the heating up has been identified as the oxidation of the material. If you take the example of oily rags as used in the engine room of merchant ships also in workshops and industries worldwide, they should be properly disposed off after use. Throwing the rags in a corner or in a heap is to invite trouble. When the rags are kept in a heap the rags in the center of the heap are being heated up but cannot release their heat to the environment, and they eventually catch fire. The same is the case with heap of manure and compost also with coal stored in bulk. One important point to note is that the more the material heats, the faster is the rate of temperature rise. Also smoldering and heated material suddenly exposed to air can also start a fire or trigger an explosion.

How to Avoid Spontaneous Combustion

The most common and practical advise to avoid spontaneous combustion is to have good house keeping. The garbage should be properly segregated and the bin for oily rags should be covered so that it does not get oxygen for oxidation. If the oily rags have to be reused they should be spread out to dry so that heat can be dissipated to the atmosphere.



Read more: http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/70711.aspx#ixzz1FCmeE0JW

[Jim Burr]

Bravo to the "im's"...Tim and Jim for the thread and the chemical answer. It's relevant for me...I work with a semi retired car painter who was driving by his shop one night and noticed smoke...long/short...he was trapped on the roof access and burned severely over 40% of his body. He is now a Respiratory Therapist and painting one of my cars! great post and answers!!

[Roland Martin]

A very good topic to bring up, since most of us use oil finishes and apply with rags or paper towels. Many shops & homes have been lost to oily rags not being taken care of promptly and properly. A BLO soaked rag that is balled up and left, seriously can spontaneously combust within half an hour, I've been there. As long as the rag is hung on the edge of a trash can, where air can get to the surfaces, the odds of igniting is very much minimized, but there is always a possibility that the rag falls to the floor unoticed. Having had a couple of incidents with oily rags, I waste no time throwing them in the wood stove if it's going. When not burning wood, I use a galvanized ash pail with a tight fitting cover, rinse the rags in good shape, keep them dripping wet and put them in the ash can, making sure the cover is closed well. When it's time for to get rid of the trash, I'll dump the pail then. Homes and shops can be replaced, but family and cherished possessions can't. Please take these suggestions seriously, spontaneous combustion is absolutely no BULL.

[Jack Gaskins]

For an oily rag container, I know a turner who uses a large Ammo (bullet) can. You can get them at fleamarkets for a few bucks. I am looking for one myself.

[Greg Just]

I lay my rags and paper towels out flat when I'm done. I have a close friend that lost a house and dog because of spontaneous combustion. He had be staining some wood and didn't think about spontaneous combustion and a fire started in his basement when he was not home.

[Steven DeMars]

I recently bought JUSTRITE Oily Waste Can from Rockler. They offered free shipping . . . No sooner I got it I went to visit another woodworker.

Lets just say he saved $65.00. He has the ultimate small oily waste can. He uses a six quart dutch oven with a heavy lid that he bought at a garage sale for $2.00.

We tried it, put a oil soaked rag in, lit it, let it get going, put the top on . . . ten seconds later it was dead out . . .

I never thought about it . . .but it is definitely a great idea . . .

Steve

[Jeff Nicol]

For an oily rag container, I know a turner who uses a large Ammo (bullet) can. You can get them at fleamarkets for a few bucks. I am looking for one myself.

Jack, You can get them at Surplus center and other places on the web. Just do a quick search and you will find tons of them for $5-15 depending on size. Check any pawn shops in your area, as on here in town has hundreds of them for sale right now.

Jeff

[Steve Vaughan]

Good topic. Been there, done that too...sort of. Some years ago, after having left the house for several hours, I came back in and immediately noticed that smell of strong finish, unusually strong. Wondered why it was, I went down to the basement shop to see if some finish had spilled, and there it was. I had used a rag, a section of t-shirt to put on some finish before I left - BLO I think it was although it may have been Watco Danish Oil. The rag was right where I left it, balled up on the wooden workbench! When I picked it up, it was actually too hot to handle! It was that close to ignition! Scary stuff. Get rid of it appropriately as has been commented here! Let it dry out in the open. Do not leave it piled up or balled up somewhere. That message on the can is very, very accurate and not simply there to reduce the company's liability!

[Greg Just]

One thing to remember is that the JUSTRITE Oily Waste Can is only a temporary fix. Eventually you will have to dispose of the rags as they will not dry out in that can.

[Jason Roehl]

One thing to remember is that the JUSTRITE Oily Waste Can is only a temporary fix. Eventually you will have to dispose of the rags as they will not dry out in that can.

This is something important to keep in mind. I'm not too keen on the idea of crumpling up a (drying) oil-soaked rag and throwing it into a metal can with a tight lid. That just opens up the possibility of a flash fire the next time the can is opened. I say get the rag/paper towel dry as soon as possible by laying it flat on a non-combustible surface, preferably a concrete floor, or hang it from something in such a way that it can't fall. Once it's dry, it's not a problem unless the dried finish is flammable and it's exposed to open flame.

[Lee Koepke]

.......... you guys just made me walk downstairs and check my rags ........ I usually stretch out my used rags/paper towels, but now I am not 100% certain because I worked with so many different finishes this weekend ....

[Tim Thiebaut]

For an oily rag container, I know a turner who uses a large Ammo (bullet) can. You can get them at fleamarkets for a few bucks. I am looking for one myself.

Thanks for everyone piping up and giving your input here, hopefully by someone reading this an accident can be avoided!

Jack - This is just a brillant idea! I have 3 .50 cal. ammo cans downstairs right now....looks like one is getting reassigned this evening!

[John E Wallace]

My brother popped all of the sheet rock off the walls in his laundry room when he washed some oily rags. The cabinets were laying on the floor when I got to his house. Trashed the washing machine too. He was always trying to save a few bucks recycling his shop rags. Not any more

[Bernie Weishapl]

I use a heavy duty trash can outside the shop. It is staked down 6 or 7 ft from the shop. I throw all my rags or towels in it. When they are dried I dispose of them.

[Sid Matheny]

I hang mine up for a few days before putting them onto the garbage. I think a air tight is the best way to go but I guess I'm lazy.

Sid

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Yes it pays to be careful, mine are laid out flat on the thick steel plate from my lathe outboard setup, I also burn them if I have a fire going.

[Tim Thiebaut]

I am glad everyone here is careful with there combustables. I will be laying mine out flat to dry from now on, and then into the steel ammo can until its time to dispose of them all, again...thanks for everyone giving their input here, hopefully we can all keep this in the back of our minds as we are working with anything that may cause a problem.

[Alan Zenreich]

I bought a JustRite oil rag waste can from Amazon a few weeks ago.
I got tired of trying to figure out where I was going to put rags to dry out, and thought it was time to do it correctly.

Amazon's price is $52 and I'm a Prime member so shipping was included.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DSKBXE
184566

[Jim Sebring]

I only use Viva paper towels for applying finishes (unless they are from a rattle can). Viva has no imprinted pattern so leaves no pattern. I also heat the shop with wood. All the towels go in the stove. The only cloth rags i use in the shop are for applying and buffing Ren wax.

[Keith Christopher]

I take mine out back and put them in the firepit and light them up.