Best "over the counter" panel saw?

[Bryan Ericson]

Hi, everyone. I've lurked this forum for years and registered a few months ago (to finally be able to see the images), but this is my first post.

I'm looking for a good, cheap (oxymoron, I know) panel saw. I know I can find Disston saws and such on eBay, but honestly I don't really care for that place - I usually lose in the last few seconds to someone because I forget to turn on the computer, and also you don't know exactly what you're getting. I'm also not inclined to spend big bucks on a Wenzloff or Lie Nielsen without first investigating other avenues. The problem is, I've never had the opportunity to use a top-quality saw, so I have no idea exactly what I've been missing out on.

If I go to Sears and buy a Craftsman saw or the Blue Borg and get a Stanley or something else made somewhere besides China, then bring it home and refile and reset the teeth and maybe even make a new handle for it, just how much better will that $100 saw be over this $15 saw? I know the nice saw will likely be taper ground and will probably have better steel, but how much better will the steel be? I can't imagine the difference will be too great. And finally, which of these low-end saws do you regard as the best? I'd prefer something made in the US, just for the sake of supporting our economy, but I'm not opposed to, say, a nice Sandvik from Sweden.

Thanks!

[lowell holmes]

I learned the hard way that buying cheap tools is a waste. After the cheap tool breaks or is discarded, I purchased quality tools. If I had the money back that I spent on the cheap tool, the cost of the new tool would have been a bargain. So much for my philosophy.

There is a string running in this forum at this time. It is the Disston #12 string. Some of the participants in that string re-condition old quality saws as a hobby (or business). I suggest you consider purchasing one of their saws if you don't want to buy a new saw from Wenzloff, Lie Nielsen, Bad Axe or some I can't think of right now.

I did not know what a quality saw was, and didn't have a clue about what to expect until I bought the LN dovetail saw. I now have several saws, new ones and old Disstons. The old Disstons are now performing like they should. They include a D-20, D-23, and an old Craftsman saw made by Disston. It's a fun trip.

[john davey]

I will most likely get killed for this but I have read several good reviews on this:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2021001/23692/Pony-22-Inch-Hand-Saw-8-PPI.aspx
I am only going on what I have read but am planning to pick one up the next time I am in woodcraft. I am going to keep it in my shed and use it to rough cut longer boards to size before I move them into my tiny basement shop. I figure for 16 bucks it can hang in the shed all winter and I wont really care what happens to it. Might not be what you had in mind but it does scream cheap :).

[Tony Zaffuto]

I learned the hard way that buying cheap tools is a waste. After the cheap tool breaks or is discarded, I purchased quality tools. If I had the money back that I spent on the cheap tool, the cost of the new tool would have been a bargain. So much for my philosophy.

There is a string running in this forum at this time. It is the Disston #12 string. Some of the participants in that string re-condition old quality saws as a hobby (or business). I suggest you consider purchasing one of their saws if you don't want to buy a new saw from Wenzloff, Lie Nielsen, Bad Axe or some I can't think of right now.

I did not know what a quality saw was, and didn't have a clue about what to expect until I bought the LN dovetail saw. I now have several saws, new ones and old Disstons. The old Disstons are now performing like they should. They include a D-20, D-23, and an old Craftsman saw made by Disston. It's a fun trip.

Not necessarily Lowell!

I have an ever constant pile of cut-offs, etc. that build up in a corner of the shop. I've always grabbed the nearest saw when I needed to knock the lengths down and invariably, I've hit grit, an occasional nail, sometimes bits of cement, paint and what not! A few months ago, I picked up a $14.95 Stanley Fat Max 8 point short saw on a whim. It wasn't worth a crap on other stuff, but it is the perfect saw for cutting up scrap.

T.Z.

[Tony Shea]

The trouble with a lot of the new cheap china saws these days is that once they are dull there is no sharpening them. They far too hard to have a file remove any metal. Therefore you're stuck with the teeth the way they are and once dull throw the saw out. Not all are this way but many are. But like has been stated above these saws can be great for rough cutting lumber that is somewhat sketchy which would be terrible to contact a brand new LN panel saw. But I would highly reccomend checking out old Disstons, Simmonds, etc. that are in fair condition and sharpen them up. It seems you are willing to sharpen a saw therefore this may be your most promising route. Was the route I took and have not looked back.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Bryan, if you are willing to put that much work into one, why not buy a saw plate from Wenzloff or Grammercy, and make your own handle?

[Andrae Covington]

...If I go to Sears and buy a Craftsman saw or the Blue Borg and get a Stanley or something else made somewhere besides China, then bring it home and refile and reset the teeth...


The trouble with a lot of the new cheap china saws these days is that once they are dull there is no sharpening them.

Yes, most widely available saws today have "impulse hardened" or "induction hardened" teeth. They will stay sharp a long time, but once they are dull or you've broken off a few, that's pretty much the end of the line. Either your file would just skate across, or it would snap off the teeth, as they are much harder and brittle than the teeth on a premium or vintage saw. I suppose you could try grinding off the original teeth and cutting new ones, but that seems kinda dangerous. Furthermore it would probably be less effort to buy some spring steel and make a saw from scratch.


Bryan, if you are willing to put that much work into one, why not buy a saw plate from Wenzloff or Grammercy, and make your own handle?



...I know the nice saw will likely be taper ground and will probably have better steel, but how much better will the steel be?...

The mass-produced saws may use a softer grade of spring steel than the high-end options, which they overcome by the hardening process they use on the teeth. If you were able to file past the original teeth, you'd probably find that your new teeth wouldn't hold an edge as long.

In between the cheap home center type saws and high end options like Wenzloff and LN, I think about the only middle range options are Pax saws. They are taper ground and hand sharpened. Several of the usual online tool dealers sell them, including Lee Valley, Tools for Working Wood, The Best Things. They cost around $100, which I'm sure is more than you're wanting to pay, but that's less than half of the premium choices.

Another choice in that price range is to buy a "standard grade" "saw filing kit" from vintagesaws.com (http://www.vintagesaws.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9_11). For $70 you get a vintage saw that's not pristine, but certainly in usable condition, optionally with new teeth cut to your specification, plus the appropriate saw file and handle.

[Jim Koepke]

Bryan,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't show your location. If you live anywhere near me, you would be welcome to come by and discover a few things about the old hand saws you can find for a few bucks all over the place.

There may also be other places close to you where you can try the premium saws to know what you should be trying for in your own saw restorations.

Since you are willing to do some filing on your own, I think this would be a great way to introduce your self to saws.

I tend to always learn the hard way. I filed a couple of saws before finding SMC, vintagesaws.com was my first teacher.

Now, I have quite a few under my belt. Each time it seems to be a little easier and gets a bit better.

If you have a chance to pick up an old yard sale saw for a few bucks, go for it. Just don't pick up one that is bent and rusty.

jtk

[Johnny Kleso]

Try to fine a new BACHO saw
Bacho is the new name of Sandvik best known maker of spring steel for making saws..

There is one on Ammazon for $18 check other places like Google shopping
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=BACHO+saw&x=15&y=26

[Joel Goodman]

If you're willing to split the difference between the $15 and the $100 saw I would get a reconditioned old saw from Daryl Weir or any of several other saw sharpening experts (some of whom post here). Figure out if you want rip or crosscut and about how many TPI and contact them. The quality will be a lot better then the Borg!

[Johnny Kleso]

Bryan,
When you bin on eBay you have to bid to win not to out bid the highest bidder
Many tool buyers use bidding software like Auction Sentry
I bought it many years ago but there where several companies that offered free trials that you can use..
It bids 10 secs before the close of the auction..
I hated getting out bid like you and if you can''t beat them join them :)

[Bryan Ericson]

Some good ideas here, everyone. It sounds like my best option is to probably just suck it up and set a timer for when the auction is about to end, and to raise my top price for the items I'm bidding on by a few bucks. I've been bit by the "buy it cheap, buy it twice" bug before - I may have just avoided being bit again. Thanks, everyone.

[John Powers]

I've had great luck at garage sales. Atkins relaible, disston air master for 5 smackers. Buy a file and your there. Most homeowners never put a dent in the factory edge. Saws are easy. Anyone telling you to make your own is dreaming. Disston made enough for all of us for ten lifetimes.

[Matt Winterowd]

Take a look a Brass City Records. Walt sells quality old tools for very reasonable prices. You won't get burned by him. No affiliation, just a happy customer.

http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html