Question on Proportions for final and pedestal

[Roger Chandler]

Okay all you hollow form turners............I have a question related to final and pedestal height in proportion to the body in order to make a form have appropriate symmetry and balance.

I began a cherry HF today, and the finished size of the body is approximately 7 1/2 inches wide and 4 1/2 inches tall. This would probably be considered on the larger size, but I wanted a larger one from this piece of cherry.

I am thinking about 5 or 6 inches tall for the finial, and maybe 7 or so high for the pedestal [if I decide to put one on it, as the form would look good with just a finial]

Do these guesses of mine seem proportional as far as height goes in relation to the size of the body?

[Jeff Myroup]

If you use the golden mean to figure the height of both you won't go wrong.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger, it is up to you but I would tend to start off with a finial that is 2/3 the height of the form - which would be close to 3" in this case. A lot depends on the shape of the HF and how far you are willing to stretch the 1/3-2/3s rule. You could always take a profile photo of it and then play with finial sizes in a graphics program first - just to get a feeling of what comes close to the look you are after.

[Roger Chandler]

If you use the golden mean to figure the height of both you won't go wrong.

I do not mean to sound ignorant...........I have heard the term, but am not familiar with how one goes about figuring it, or exactly how that relates in a formula..............any help and explanation would be much appreciated! thank you!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, it is up to you but I would tend to start off with a finial that is 2/3 the height of the form - which would be close to 3" in this case. A lot depends on the shape of the HF and how far you are willing to stretch the 1/3-2/3s rule. You could always take a profile photo of it and then play with finial sizes in a graphics program first - just to get a feeling of what comes close to the look you are after.

Steve..........thanks for the suggestion..........my computer skills rival a kindergartners so a graphics program would be a long learning curve for me, and I don't know if I have that kind of time............:o

[Steve Schlumpf]

Roger - that is just one option. Here is a link to everything you ever wanted to know about the Golden Ratio: http://www.goldennumber.net/

[Jeff Myroup]

I do not mean to sound ignorant...........I have heard the term, but am not familiar with how one goes about figuring it, or exactly how that relates in a formula..............any help and explanation would be much appreciated! thank you!

The golden mean ratio is 1.618 to 1. The 1/3 to 2/3 proportion is a close approximation

[Jeff Myroup]

The one thing you don't want to do is make them the same length as each other

[Roger Chandler]

Jeff and Steve,

Thank you both..............

[David E Keller]

Roger, I usually start at around 2/3 the height of the form as Steve suggested. I use a pen blank inserted through the opening with that 2/3 height as a starting point then raise or lower the blank to 'fudge' the length to something that looks 'best' to me... I usually don't change too much from the starting point. A small ruler will also give you a good visual reference for choosing a finial height.

I'd likely avoid a pedestal for the piece you described because they're hard for me to make proportional when they are that large. I'm not saying you shouldn't make one, but I struggle to try and make them look right.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I usually start at around 2/3 the height of the form as Steve suggested. I use a pen blank inserted through the opening with that 2/3 height as a starting point then raise or lower the blank to 'fudge' the length to something that looks 'best' to me... I usually don't change too much from the starting point. A small ruler will also give you a good visual reference for choosing a finial height.

I'd likely avoid a pedestal for the piece you described because they're hard for me to make proportional when they are that large. I'm not saying you shouldn't make one, but I struggle to try and make them look right.

Thanks for the info on how you do it, David. The form I have will look great with just a finial. I had it in my mind to do a pedestal/finial combo before I started that walnut blank last week, and ran into punky wood that ruined my plans. I think this one would look good with pedestal also, but it will make for a very large hollow form [tall] with say a 5 " pedestal and then a 4 1/2 inch body, then a 3 -4 inch finial........that would make it somewhere in the range of 13 inches +/- but if done correctly, it would be a really nice piece.

I guess somewhere in my mind, after seeing so many great forms here on SMC that I just had it on my brain to do that kind of form. I am going to have to chew on this some...........I was hoping to take a couple of hours in the morning to do the finial/pedestal thing, but may have to wait till next week.

[Ed Morgano]

Okay all you hollow form turners............I have a question related to final and pedestal height in proportion to the body in order to make a form have appropriate symmetry and balance.

I began a cherry HF today, and the finished size of the body is approximately 7 1/2 inches wide and 4 1/2 inches tall. This would probably be considered on the larger size, but I wanted a larger one from this piece of cherry.

I am thinking about 5 or 6 inches tall for the finial, and maybe 7 or so high for the pedestal [if I decide to put one on it, as the form would look good with just a finial]

Do these guesses of mine seem proportional as far as height goes in relation to the size of the body?

Roger,
I just did some searches last week when I was getting ready to turn some finials. Here are a couple of exceptions that I think look really good.

184231184232

Point is that when you get to an art form rules don't always work best. It's really up to you. Have fun. BTY, there are many photos on the internet of finials if you need some ideas.

184233

This is the first one that I made.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Not a hollow form turner Roger, though I have done some, but here's a picture of some of those "rules" :rolleyes:

184239

[Bill Boehme]

More than anything else, the finial should decorate the piece, but not dominate it. This usually means that the finial looks best if thin and delicate. A heavy ponderous finial that resembles a screwdriver handle simply won't do regardless of the ratio with respect to the vessel. I try not to be constrained by arbitrary rules simply for the sake of the rule. If you look at it with a critical eye, I think that is is fairly easy to envision what looks good and what doesn't. I like a well proportioned thin finial that showcases the artist's ability to make intricate turnings yet does not hold the viewers attention to the extent that the eye never quite gets to the vessel itself. It should be something that pulls the eye towards the vessel and then becomes secondary.

[John Keeton]

Roger, you will get as many opinions on this as you are willing to consider!! I have not been doing this turning thing all that long, and to be honest, the rule of thirds was somewhat foreign to me when I started. I was aware of the golden mean as it pertains to furniture, and used it in design. But, casework is different in so many ways.

Many things effect the look of a finial on a form - the color, the flow, the contrast, the presence of highly figured wood, replication of elements, and on and on. Even when I sketch a piece, I rarely consider the rule of thirds in determining the height of the finial. I do have 4-5 finials that never "made the cut" that I have on my workbench. The are various heights, and I use them sometimes to estimate a good height. But, again, there are a lot of variables - not the least of which is personal taste.

I am betting you do something great with it - much of it has to do with desire, and you have that!!

[Richard Madden]

According to the drawing Leo shows, it looks to me like you would wind up with a 7-1/2" tall finial. I think a 3" would look much better.

[Rick Hutcheson]

Why don't you just make a Fabonacc guage to find the golden mean?

http://www.scrollsaws.com/WoodLathe/woodlathefibonacc.htm

[Bernie Weishapl]

Roger you've gotten some good advice. I will just add that on the form you are talking about I probably wouldn't go more than 3" tall on the finial. The pedestal maybe 4" or so. Whatever you do I am sure it will look good.