Looking for Soft Lightweight ASH lumber. How do I find this?

[Nick Sorenson]

I have purchased Ash from various sources (most of it comes from Central US sawmills) and it's heavy and solid. It's tough to cut but seems to look good when the project is complete. I guess that means it sands and routes well.

But the problem I have is that I'm building instruments and these things are heavy when I use our Missouri Ash.

Does anyone have any pointers on finding the soft lightweight Ash I'm looking for?

Sorry if this is a simple or ignorant question. I'm honestly still a bit green in my knowledge of hardwoods.

[Chris Fournier]

You are looking for "swamp ash". It is harvested in the southern US. I'm sorry but I can't remember the specific mill that I used to buy from. Even when purchased in lift quantities you'd have some very light to quite heavy pieces.

[Nick Sorenson]

You are looking for "swamp ash". It is harvested in the southern US. I'm sorry but I can't remember the specific mill that I used to buy from. Even when purchased in lift quantities you'd have some very light to quite heavy pieces.

I think you're right. I had a mill on the Mississippi (Illinois boarder) tell me this morning that they get lightweight Ash. Does it ONLY come from the south?

[Jamie Buxton]

Some luthery suppliers carry swamp ash -- http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,_wood/Electric_guitar_body_blanks/Swamp_Ash_Body_Blank.html for instance.

You might inquire in the SMC forum about building musical instruments.

[Don Buck]

I used to sell lumber for a mill in Louisiana that produced "swamp ash". A suggestion I can share - the lighter weight ash lumber is found in the first 10' or 12' of the butt log of ash growing in lowland sites. You will often find a good percentage of the lighter weight boards in 8' - 10' packs of Southern white ash if produced from lowland sites.

A potential source (although I don't think they offer retail sales) is Anderson Tully (ATCO) lumber in Vicksburg, MS. Perhaps your local lumber distributor buys from ATCO.

[Nick Sorenson]

Some luthery suppliers carry swamp ash -- http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,_wood/Electric_guitar_body_blanks/Swamp_Ash_Body_Blank.html for instance.

You might inquire in the SMC forum about building musical instruments.

This might be ok for a one off project or in a hobby setting, but in building guitars for a living this is way too expensive at $113 it breaks down to over $25 per board foot (4 board feet in a blank) and especially so when you can buy a completed guitar body at around the same price.

I'm looking to get Ash in the $3.50 a board foot or less range.

[Nick Sorenson]

I used to sell lumber for a mill in Louisiana that produced "swamp ash". A suggestion I can share - the lighter weight ash lumber is found in the first 10' or 12' of the butt log of ash growing in lowland sites. You will often find a good percentage of the lighter weight boards in 8' - 10' packs of Southern white ash if produced from lowland sites.

A potential source (although I don't think they offer retail sales) is Anderson Tully (ATCO) lumber in Vicksburg, MS. Perhaps your local lumber distributor buys from ATCO.

This makes sense. I wonder if it's only from the south or from any wet lowland site?

Funny you should mention ATCO. I spoke with them last week. They didn't have much to offer. I think they're not interested in 500 board feet orders, more 20,000 bd foot truck loads unfortunately. I mentioned Swamp Ash to a few main lumber distributors locally and they have no idea what I mean. Only one or two had a clue and they weren't interested in ordering it because most shops want the hard stuff according to their experience.

[Larry Edgerton]

I don't know if the ash in the South is being attacked like our ash up here, but if it is, and you want a stash you may want to hurry. All of the ash on my property was infected last year with EAB, so I am sawing it up into lumber starting today. Shame, I love ash.

[Ryan Baker]

Good luck finding large quantities of 8/4 quality swamp ash for 3.50 a bf. You're gonna need it.

Swamp ash is getting hard to find at all for instruments, and it isn't cheap when you do find it. It easily runs as much as mahogany these days and seems to be going up in price fast.

[Danny Hamsley]

Nick,

The lowland ash in the South is green ash, Acer pennslyvanica. Growth rate affects density, and believe it or not, slower growth in a ring porous hardwood like ash and oak and hickory produces less dense wood than faster growth, just the opposite of what you find in softwoods like pine. I will explain why if anyone is interested. So, if you can choose, choose the boards that have the tightest growth rings or the most number of growth rings per inch. Boards with only a couple of growth rings per inch will be denser and heavier. I know that this seems counter-intuitive, but test it out.

BTW, I have some 4/4 green ash sawn 1 & 1/8"thick rough that is air drying for $2.50/BF, but I do not know where you are located. You should be able to find a local source. Mine is not fully air dried, but ash dried fast, so you could bring it inside and it would be ready to go in about 6 weeks.

[Nick Sorenson]

Good luck finding large quantities of 8/4 quality swamp ash for 3.50 a bf. You're gonna need it.

Swamp ash is getting hard to find at all for instruments, and it isn't cheap when you do find it. It easily runs as much as mahogany these days and seems to be going up in price fast.

I just talked to a guy who ran a sawmill and kiln and he told me he ran all the punky stuff through the chipper. I said... hey set it aside and I'll buy it. He said he's done until the end of the summer. But I've heard that a lot of it ends up in this way. So I know it can be had for less than $3.50 a bd ft. Just a matter of finding the right person.


Nick,

The lowland ash in the South is green ash, Acer pennslyvanica. Growth rate affects density, and believe it or not, slower growth in a ring porous hardwood like ash and oak and hickory produces less dense wood than faster growth, just the opposite of what you find in softwoods like pine. I will explain why if anyone is interested. So, if you can choose, choose the boards that have the tightest growth rings or the most number of growth rings per inch. Boards with only a couple of growth rings per inch will be denser and heavier. I know that this seems counter-intuitive, but test it out.

BTW, I have some 4/4 green ash sawn 1 & 1/8"thick rough that is air drying for $2.50/BF, but I do not know where you are located. You should be able to find a local source. Mine is not fully air dried, but ash dried fast, so you could bring it inside and it would be ready to go in about 6 weeks.


Hi Danny thanks for the offer. I'm in Missouri. I'm looking for 2" thick unfortunately. Seems like most everyone has 4/4 in any species of wood. It makes sense for the cabinet industry I suppose.

Speaking of cabinets... I went to a friends house who owns a very successful commercial cabinet operation and he had Ash cabinets in his house. Beautiful cabinets. He had it stained a medium oak color. I don't know why more people don't use Ash for cabinets and furniture. It's a beautiful species. He mentioned choosing it because it had more of a "glow" than oak. I agree with him. It's a special wood.

[Danny Hamsley]

Ash is awesome in cabinets.

[Chris Fournier]

I have not found any correlation between the growth ring spacing and density. In my experience having handled a few thousand board feet of the stuff, you never really seem to know which one will be the feather weight by visual inspection. Of course this wood was all from one mill and one region so its not a great sample.

As pointed out, it is the saw log closest to the root collar that is lightest.

You may well find this stuff fo cheap but don't count on it. Remeber that 8/4 swamp ash has been used for guitars since the early 50's and the woodlot, mill owners are well aware of its worth.

These cheap guitar grade wood quests remind me of the mint "65 Mustang under blankets in a barn and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow stories! I say this laughing at myself because I really travelled the country trying to buy guitar woods for cheap.

In my area figured hard and soft maple were the goal. I did end up buying guitar and violin family grade woods at mill pricing, the only catch was that I had to burn a lot of gas, spend a ton of time, buy logs on spec and inspection and fight off the Japanese (for export) log buyer (In the heat of battle the Japanese buyer had a huge inventory and Japan fell into their recession - his inventory was sold off for cents on the dollar which muddled the market place for quite some time. Unfortunately he bought a lot of logs but wasn't as quick to process them and degrade was a huge problem with his stock). Oh yeah, these logs had to be transported, quarter sawn and air dryed with as little defect as possible; then the wood had to be sold! Was it worth it? I enjoyed the experience to a point but time spent sourcing and squirreling away wood is time taken away from building. Handling every piece of wood umpteen times gets real thin too!

I have found that the best thing to do is locate a full time supplier of what you're after and make a volume buy. I don't think that you'll get it any cheaper and you save a ton of time and grief.

[Danny Hamsley]

Maybe "swamp ash" is not green ash (Fraxinus pennslyvanica). Green ash is very common in the eastern US. It is prevalent in the bottomlands in the South, but it is also found in the uplands as well. There is a much less commom ash called carolina ash (Fraxinus caroliniana), but I am not sure this is it. Any info on the scientific name of "swamp ash" would be appreciated. Common names are unreliable as many are colloquial.

[Wes Grass]

Confusing subject.

Fraxinus profunda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_profunda 'Occurs primarily in swamps'

Fraxinus pennsylvanica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_pennsylvanica 'commercial supply is mostly in the South. It is very popular, used in making guitars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar) because it can be somewhat lighter than white ash'

Fraxinus caroliniana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_caroliniana 'commonly known as the Pop ash, Florida ash, Swamp ash, ... Of little value, smallest and valuable of eastern ash species, wood light, soft, weak, 22 lbs./cu./ft.'


Trying to figure out what the 'ash' I got out of my Mother's front yard is, latifolia (Oregon) or velutina (Modesto). I think too big for the latter. Should have grabbed some of the branches and leaves.