How likely is this to dry intact?

[Dan Forman]

I rough turned an elm hollow form tonight, but wonder if it has a fatal flaw? It's 7 1/2" wide by 5 1/2" high (foot will be parted off). It's hollowed to 3/4" throughout most of it, but the last inch or so around the mouth is only 3/8 to 1/2" at best- I guess I need more practice beginning the hollowing. So, I'm wondering if it's likely to crack where it's thinnest - it's a pretty abrupt transition - or will the small circumference of that area protect it from moving too much as it dries? This is only my third one, and the first was dry to begin with, so I don't have much experience to go by. The wood for this one was very wet.

Second question is about size at the base. At present, mouth is 1 1/2", foot is about 2", wondering if is should be a little smaller. I'd appreciate any feedback on the proportions. The very slight indentation around the "equator" was made by my bowl steady.

Right now it's in a plastic bag, in case I need to just finish it tomorrow and let it warp.

Thanks,

Dan

[Brian McInturff]

Elm is one of those funny woods. Most will warp and split. But, I've had some pieces never move a bit. I'd put it in a bag with the shavings from it. Looks like you did exceptionally well for it being only your 3rd one. I think you will be fine on the base once you finish taking the contour all the way to the bottom. Just don't do an abrupt parting off right where it is now and take the contour down a little further. Unless the indention is very deep it should sand right out. Maybe add a little water while sanding to help "puff" the wood fibers back up from being compressed. Good Job I think!!

[John Keeton]

Dan, for my tastes, I don't like to see a base smaller than the mouth, so I like it as is. I think the form looks good and the shoulder is in the right location.

Can't help much on predicting the likelihood of cracks as I don't do much with wet wood. Are you going to use DNA to dry it?

[Scott Hackler]

Dan that is a great looking rough out. As far as elm...... all I have turned ovaled, but few have cracked. Elm has a very strange grain. Almost like its rings are gripping onto each other. Now I do use trhe Dna method and maybe that helps with the cracking but I dont know. I would be more concerned with enough "meat" left over to make it round again.

[Dick Wilson]

Dan, Form is very good, if I were to leave a "base or pedestal" on it I would leave it a little larger that the top. Remember, base of vessel can be up to 1/3 diameter ( general thumb ) of piece. I am not recommending you leave it that large. The other thing you can do is totally eliminate the base - a smooth curve right to the bottom of the piece and turn a very small concave right on the bottom. That would lift the piece off the table and give it more interest. It is a crap shoot regrading checking. When it dries the opening in the top will no longer be round. The fact that the wall thickness at the top is thinner than the side of the vessel may cause problems. Obviously, thin wall dries faster than thicker walls. Hey look at it this way, if it cracks it will give you a design opportunity. Good luck.

[Wally Dickerman]

Dan, It's been a long time since I've turned any elm but I don't recall that I had any problems with it. First, I like the form you've turned. When rough turning I like to leave the area around the base fairly heavy so that I'll have an easier time when turning the piece after it's dry. That's when you shape the foot. If this piece was in my shop, I'd very liberally coat it with Johnson's paste wax, and if it's very wet, brown bag it for a few weeks. I put a date on it and in 6 months it'll be ready to remount and finish turning. A wood sealeer such as Anchorseal could be used instead of the wax if you have doubts. If you put it in a plastic bag don't leave it there for too long. It'll get a mold stain which isn't pretty.

The Johnson's wax treatment has worked well for me for many years and many hundreds of bowls and vessels. Just be sure to use lots of it. The idea of any treatment is just to slow the rate of drying to prevent cracking. I don't have room in my small shop to 70 or 80 paper bags full of bowls and wood shavings. I often have that many coated with wax and sitting on shelves.

Wally

[Jake Helmboldt]

Dan, I would be inclined to take the rest to the same thickness in anticipation of not being able to re-turn it due to ovaling. Plus, it may help even out the stresses and reduce the likelihood of cracking.

[Baxter Smith]

I don't have a clue about the cracking but the form and wood is very pretty. Good luck with it!

[Dan Forman]

I'm going to turn it to final thickness and let it oval if it wants to. I'm afraid of not having enough wood left on top to return once dry. Thanks for the comments.

Dan

[Gary Max]

But the more wood you remove the less wood has to dry.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Dan - you can always use a collar to keep prying fingers from checking out the final thickness. Nothing says it has to be perfect inside - just remove enough wood so that it feels balanced when you pick it up.

[William Bachtel]

I wood try and thin down the whole form, 3/8s is your best bet , l/2 inch is the thickest I wood go. Keep the heat away form it. Wood drys from the outside - in. Outside drys first, and reduces in size, the inside is not losing any diameter or size, and forces the outside to crack. When something is thin, it drys fast and thur out evenly. Green thin projects rarely crack, but will warp. That is a nice piece and I do like Red Elm.

[David E Keller]

It's pretty wood, and I like the form. The thickness in the bottom may give you some trouble with cracking, but as the others have said, elm has a tendency to really move/warp sometimes which may lead to bigger troubles with having enough wood at the top to make it round again. Steve's suggestion for a collar will help disguise any irregularities in the thickness. I'd seal the outside with anchorseal(or wax as Wally suggested) and put it on a shelf someplace for a while.

[Ryan Baker]

My experience with elm is that it tends to form a lot of very tiny cracks, but not a lot of big ones if you are careful due to the interlocked grain. I've had a number of pieces that you could hear cracking -- just like Rice Krispies, and quite loud. Turning to final thickness and letting it do what it will usually works well, but even then you probably want to control the drying.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Dan we have a lot of Elm here and I always turn it to final thickness 3/8" or so and then soak it with Antique Oil. I just keep painting it on till it won't take anymore. Let it sit for 15 mins and wipe off. I have found so far on the dozen or so that with soaking it good with the AO it doesn't oval as much and so far haven't had one crack yet. All three that I left 1/2" to 3/4" thick using DNA cracked beyond any return to the lathe.

[Mark Hubl]

Hope it holds. It is a good looking piece of wood and the shape is good.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Dan, Elm is very tough wood and doesn't split easily, however keeping the wall an even thickness would be a good idea.
The thicker wall has more strength than the thinner, so it could make the thinner wall split, also make sure the openings edge is nice and smooth without any small cuts/splits.
Then I would place it in a brown paper bag and set it at a nice cool spot without drafts, should make for a beautiful piece :D :cool:

[Dan Forman]

Update: I went ahead and turned it to a (fairly) uniform 1/4", sanded to 600, and it is now sitting in a paper bag. I think I'll do a Bernie on it tomorrow, and give it a liberal coating of Antique oil, hoping to limit the ovaling. Thanks for all of the encouragement and suggestions.

Dan