Which Stanley plane to get?

[keith micinski]

I am just entering into the world of hand planes to augment my machine work. I can not afford any of the Lie Nieilsen or Lee Valley planes so I am going to have to stick with some old Stanley's that I can tune up. The plus side to this is I think buying some old planes and having to refurbish them sounds like fun and it will help me learn how all of the planes work and how all of there parts interact. I just recently purchased a #6 that was in fairly nice shape. I already have a newer low angle block plane that is of the cheesy 90's Stanley variety but figure with a tune up I can at least make it serviceable. My plan is to get a #4 smoother and a shoulder plane. As near as I can tell these are the planes I should need to help me do finishing work on my pieces. I am assuming buying one of the vintage planes would be better then buying one of the newer planes just from what I have read around here. Are there any other planes I should be looking at to have a basic set of hand planes around the shop?

[Dave Gaul]

The # 4 will serve well for what you want to use it for. I am quite new to hand planes. My Stanley # 4 see lots of use in finishing prep. I have a # 5 that I've used for panel flattening when the panel was too wide for my power plane. I also have a # 78 Rabbet plane too that I love. A block plane and a Low Angle Block Plane will complete a great starter set.

Tune the true, and sharpen the irons properly, and you will be in love with making thin curly shavings!

[Don Dorn]

You're going to get lots of opinions, but mine is that three bench planes get you 90% of where you need to be. A jointer of which your #6 doesn't qualify, but is certainly serviceable as that with small projects. A jack plane which is normally a #5, but your six, even though a little big, can do this job too. The #4 is a good choice for a smoother and you have a basic block.

Beyond that, there are many opinions, mine is that there are others in line before a shoulder plane. However, before going on, I would buy the stones necessary and learn to sharpen because it's all for naught if you can't make them sharp. That too opens a can of worm's but I think a 1000 and 8000 stone will get you where you need to be. Good luck, it's sure allot of fun and gives great satifaction not only in the journey of your project, but pride in knowing you did allot of it by hand.

[keith micinski]

It seems like the number 4 and the block plane are basically the tools of choice for most projects so I'll try and concentrate on getting the nicest ones I can. I really want a shoulder plane also because it is one of the few hand tools I have actually thought would come in handy a few times cleaning up tenon's.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Have you checked out the Hock shoulder plane kits? They are pretty nice. Just offering an alternative.

[keith micinski]

Believe it or not half the fun of this plane business to me is going to be taking a 100 year old tool and making it function like new. I recognize that these newer planes are better but I have no real interest in buying a fancy new plane. I guess I am kind of weird that way. I have read about the Hock blade upgrades and may look into that. I also don't see myself using these planes enough to know the difference between a really nice one and a serviceable one. I staid away from hand tools and planes till now because of the can of worms sharpening was going to get me into but after watching a worksharp demo and seeing that they have a kit for doing plane blades off the top I think one of those is going to be in my future after I acquire a few plane blades that need sharpened.

[Mike Henderson]

No matter what plane you buy, you can improve it quite a bit by replacing the stock blade with one of the newer blades. Hock, LN, LV and others offer quality replacement blades.

Like others, I would have recommended a #5 as a first bench plane. If going with a Stanley Bailey, look for a type 11 to 13. But you can find flat sided Bedrock 605 planes at pretty reasonable prices and with a new blade, you essentially have a Lie-Nielsen.

Mike

[Mark Baldwin III]

Old planes are great. I have 3 older metal planes...probably 50 to 60 years old. I also have four wooden planes that are over 150 years old. My old planes have been great teachers. They have also showed me what real craftsmanship can achieve. Anyway, welcome to the slope. I've only been at this for about a year, but everyone here is sure to make your ride down the slippery slope as fun as possible ;)

[Jim Koepke]

If you haven't done so already, learn to sharpen your blades. A good, sharp blade will make you wonder why you ever needed sandpaper.

The great repository of information for many things including hand planes can be found right here on SMC:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Your comment about having a lot of fun refurbishing old planes whole heartedly gains my agreement. Many of my hours have been spent turning old neglected planes into good users. It is very satisfying to take a flea market or yard sale find from a junker to a fine example of a woodworking tool.

jtk

[Tom Vanzant]

Jim,
I have a tuned-up Stanley #3 with a Hock iron that takes sub-thou shavings. I recently noticed a short crack in the corner of the mouth, ranging rearward. I also have a "parts" #3 with a nice flat sole. After swapping out the iron and making a few passes to tune the iron, at also takes sub-thou shavings, in hard maple. Neither plane is a collector, neither is very pretty, but they both responded well to a little TLC and a good iron... and it was fun making that happen.

[keith micinski]

What do you guys think of this for a number 4 smoother. It looks like a good deal except I am not sure why it has the grooves milled into the bottom and most of them don't. I would assume it easier to flatten the bottom when it is grooved like that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-STANLEY-4-C-PLANE-SWEETHEART-SW-/120684843580?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1960923c#ht_4868wt_1052

[Zach Dillinger]

Don't pass up looking for good wooden planes. They are easier to tune, in my opinion, and I really enjoy working with mine. I'll buy metal planes, but usually only to resell to people who want them.

[Jim Koepke]

Just my opinion, but the price is a little on the high side for a plane that is made up of mismatched parts.

The plane will likely work fine with those parts, but the lever cap is newer than the blade and the blade is newer than the base.

The "grooved" sole is normal for the planes designated with a c which means corrugated. It supposedly makes the plane have less friction when planing resinous woods. Some people love the corrugated soles, some don't. In my experience, waxing the sole works every bit as well.

jtk

[keith micinski]

I wasn't aware of the mismatched parts. I have read that for some reason the sweetheart blades are considered better then the regular blades but havent really figured out why. Also this appears to be a bedrock plane because the frog is solid and a machined lip, is that correct if so I have read that the bedrock planes are a little more desirable also. I am not concerned about getting a collectors item so as long as the items all work together that is all I am looking for.

[keith micinski]

Plus the price actually looked pretty good to me compared to the planes that are going to sell in the next few hours. It seems like they are going around 35 to 40 for the #4's and they aren't in as good of shape as this one looks.

[Jim Koepke]

It is not a Bedrock plane. The 3 patent dates are for the Bailey design. The body of the plane is a type 11. That is one that many folks desire.

I have not been following prices of late, so I could be wrong. I haven't been doing much buying or selling of tools lately. The mismatched parts will not have an effect on the usability of the plane.

Some people like the SW mark on their tools. Some consider that the "Golden Age" of Stanley hand tools.

I have Stanley blades from the 1880s to the 1980s and they are about the same.

jtk

[Joe A Faulkner]

Keith, be patient. I picked up a #4, #5 and #120 block plane for $25 bucks at a yard sale this summer. Check out your local antique stores and flea markets. I just looked at Crag's list in your area and saw an interesting transitional for $10. I looks pretty rough, but with a few hours effort, you could probably return it to some form of usefulness. Also, check out the classifieds here on a regular basis. In the past few week's I've seen some reburbished #5's for less than $50 - shipped. Given the choice between paying $30-$40 bucks on e-bay, and paying shipping on top of that, I'd much rather buy from a creeker. Good luck and happy hunting.

[keith micinski]

Ya I am getting itchy.

[Dwain Lambrigger]

As Jim said, the plane you are looking at is a mix and match of parts. It is also NOT a bedrock. The price, however is good, considering. I am in the process of aquiring some hand planes myself. I have several type 11's with corrugated soles. I have purchased a few with a mismatched iron, and one with a mismatched lever cap. I don't let that bother me too much. I agree with purchasing here. You will get a better tool. I probably spent between $35 and $50 form my 3 - 5, $55 on my 5.5 and 6, and over $75 on my 7 and 8. I feel I got good value, but no steals. I accept that because I was looking for a specific type and condition. There are steals out there, be patient. While you are waiting for the right plane, you may want to buy something cheap and dirty (i am talking about planes here!) on e bay and take some time to fettle it. Clean it up, sharpen and see what you have.

Good luck.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Good planes can be had cheap if you go off-brand, for example Craftsman or Montgomery Wards. They were made by Stanley, Millers Falls, and Sargent. Sometimes the less-expensive Dunlap or "Made in USA" planes can have pretty hefty castings but usually need some fettling to work as well as the first-tier premium planes. I've been picking a bunch of these up at garage sales.

[David Weaver]

I have read that for some reason the sweetheart blades are considered better then the regular blades but havent really figured out why.

This is esoteric, unless you're comparing a later chrome-steel blade to the old tool steel blades. I like the oldest stanley irons the best, but I can't tell you which one will last longer, those or a sweetheart iron. Both work fine, and both do not hold an edge nearly as long as a new A2 iron (but there is difference between working fine and holding the edge longest - super long edge holding is a luxury, not a necessity). I wouldn't spend my time milling through listings looking for sweetheart irons unless you're finding them for $3 per.

[keith micinski]

OK, so it sounds like I want a type 11 but I haven't figured out how to tell what a type 11 is. Can anyone help me figure it out.

[David Weaver]

Three patent dates listed between the tote and the frog, short front knob (probably, though a few of the last ones got a tall knob), frog with fully machined face, frog adjustment screw.

If you want a user, type 10-14 (or whatever the last generation of machined frog planes were) to me are functionally the same. I've never noticed a real difference between a tall and short knob in use, when you get to fine work, your hand won't be on the knob, anyway. The short knob looks nicer, to me at least.

You may find preferences that other people don't voice, like you may like the bigger adjustment knob i later planes - it's definitely easier to use if everything is a little dirty.

I wouldn't get too swept up in it, especially if you manage to stay in the period between the frog screw and before WWII broke out.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

I agree with Dave. When I had them I drank the kool-ade and wouldn't buy anything that wasn't a Type 10-12. But there is no real significance between them unless you are a collector. As for the SW/non-SW blades, I never saw a big difference between all different ones I had. Now there is a difference between them and a replacement Hock, LN, or LV. Be patient, find yourself one that is in good shape, fix it up, and go have fun planing some wood.

[john davey]

Well, I was off today for the holiday and was really board so i watched all of my old ww dvd's. I went through the 2 David Charlesworth DVD's that he did for Lie-Nielsen a few years ago. He mentioned he doesn't have much use for a smoother and uses a number 5 setup for smoothing. I think he actually called it a super smoother. In theory nobody stops at one though so get what you want and move on. You can set a 5 up do do many things....Just my 2 cents....

[Jim Koepke]

You can set a 5 up do do many things....Just my 2 cents....

Some say that is why it is called a Jack plane as in Jack of all trades.

The set up for the different uses is another matter. For fine smoothing, one would want a tight mouth. For use as a scrub, a much wider mouth would be in order.

jtk

[Joe A Faulkner]

Keith, checkout http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?160298-4-and-5-for-sale.