Hollowing systems: Articulated vs. Captured vs. Handheld

[Jon McElwain]

There have been a lot of posts about the articulated hollowing systems lately. I know that many people here are also using captured systems or hand held hollowing tools with no rear support. I am hoping to start a discussion in which answers to the following are articulated:


Best general use type system -not a brand.
Safest system.
Strengths and weaknesses of an articulated system.
Strengths and weaknesses of a captured system.
Most appropriate use of a handheld system with no rear tool support.
What system(s) do you have and why (cost, type of work you do with it, brand loyalty, strengths of the tool, etc. etc.)
What system do you want and why.


Hopefully many of you who have extensive experience, who have used multiple systems, etc. will share your experiences and knowledge!

Thank you,

Jon

[John Beaver]

jon,
what about adding a poll to the top and seeing which most people prefer?
I don't have a system, so I have to go with hand-held, but I have been researching the articulated systems.
I don't mind working hand-held, as I like being able to turn the tool a little bit for the best angle. I also like the feedback you get from working hand-held, but I wonder if that little bit of added control from an articulated system would be nice. I don't do many hollow forms, but I would like to have it for deep end grain vases.

[Dennis Ford]

I have a captured system and also do hand held hollowing. I like the freedom of hand held for smaller hollow forms, also it is a faster process once you get up the learning curve a little bit. The captured system is easier to control and is essential for deeper vessels. Where "small" stops and "deep" starts depends on tooling size, skill level and individual preference. If I get an articulated system, it would probably be used on medium size pieces that are challanging to do with hand held tools but don't need the strength of my captured system (1-1/4" dia. bar).

[Thom Sturgill]

I have hand hollowed a few pieces and just built both a captured and articulated system. Beyond a doubt the captured is 'more secure' and feels 'safer' - not sure how to say it. The articulated feels comfortable, and I believe I have more 'feel' for the turning than with the captured system, while eliminating much of the fear of catches, since it constrains the vertical movement of the tool handle and keeps the cutter orientation stable. I have not turned enough with either system to give you more than a first impression. I am waiting on an arm brace that I ordered to complement the other pieces in the arsenal.
I will say that I took the systems to a club event this morning and our president, who has been turning for quite a while, thought the articulated arm to be too weak to be worth bothering with...until he actually tried it. The D-Ring on the captured system is something that you are, I think, always going to be aware of as it is a fairly massive piece of steel to be moving around. The articulated arm on the other hand seems much more natural to use.

[Jim Adkins]

Jon......I started doing hollow forms using a Sorby straight-half round shank tool that had a small sq. cutter held by a round cap, could change from the sq. cutter to a flat teardrop scraper. Worked fine on shallow hollow forms, then bought a Stewart armbrace with the matching hooker tool, used the same cutter/scraper system. Was hollowing a deep (10") hollow form and got a huge catch which caused considerable pain in my right shoulder. MRI revealed a "tear" in my rotator cuff. No surgery, cortosone shot and considerable time off!! This is when I went to the captive system, still use the hooker tool but with it installed in the captive rig. Very versatile system with the hooker tool. Since most of my turnings are endgrain I almost always use the teardrop-shaped scraper for clearing-out the interior. This is after I drill a 1 1/2" hole with a forstner bit. Anybody need a Stewart armbrace??
Jim

[Bernie Weishapl]

I do free hand hollowing, the articulating arm and the captured system. If I could only have one it would be the articulating arm unit. I use both my captured and articulating systems because it makes hollowing easier on my old aching hands. I use the captured system for deeper hollowing and the articulating system for smaller hollowing.

[Reed Gray]

I like hand held McNaughton blades for roughing, just put them in my coring handle set up with laser. Very efficient.

I prefer the articulated arm (Monster) for finish cuts. Articulated for up to about 8 inches deep, captured system (home made) for deeper forms, which I seldom do.

robo hippy

[Jon McElwain]

jon,
what about adding a poll to the top and seeing which most people prefer?

I was thinking about it - maybe a what do you like the best, or what system do you use the most? Not sure how to create a poll - can it be added later, or does it have to be done at the time of the original post?


Beyond a doubt the captured is 'more secure' and feels 'safer' - not sure how to say it. The articulated feels comfortable, and I believe I have more 'feel' for the turning than with the captured system, while eliminating much of the fear of catches, since it constrains the vertical movement of the tool handle and keeps the cutter orientation stable.

Secure vs. feel. I can see an articulating system having better feel - my captured system doesn't let me know something is wrong until I hear vibrations in the form I am working on. I would be nice to feel them before they get out of hand.


I have a captured system and also do hand held hollowing. I like the freedom of hand held for smaller hollow forms, also it is a faster process once you get up the learning curve a little bit.

I am in the same boat. I have several hand hollowing tools, but I like my captured system for the ease of the cut. Hand held does take away the set up time.


Was hollowing a deep (10") hollow form and got a huge catch which caused considerable pain in my right shoulder.

Anybody need a Stewart armbrace??
Jim

That's quite the sales pitch for the Stewart arm brace - definitely not the hard sell! Hope that shoulder is all better now.


I like hand held McNaughton blades for roughing, just put them in my coring handle set up with laser. Very efficient.

I prefer the articulated arm (Monster) for finish cuts. Articulated for up to about 8 inches deep, captured system (home made) for deeper forms, which I seldom do.

robo hippy

I had not thought of using a variety of hollowing tips in a single system (articulated or captured). It is obvious of course, but now I can look at some other tools with an eye for putting them in my captured system!


I use the captured system for deeper hollowing and the articulating system for smaller hollowing.

Good to know about the limitations of the articulated system. Are they just a little less secure against the forces involved in turning deeper, or is it the vibration that gets to the articulated system that causes the limitation?

[robert baccus]

a late entry yeah...i started with a stewart..not good ..went to a homemade very heavy captive system which used a wall for a stabilizer... good used it for 14 years.....now use a home welded capture system based on a 1&1/4 shaft. i use several cutting tips, 3/16 square bar...several teardrop cutters but mostly i use a woodcut promaster cutting tip adapted to the capture system. it will turn out shavings like any 5/8" bowl gouge and practically never grab ever 12" down in a vase. try it------------old forester

[Bill Blasic]

I have both Monster systems and have done hollowing by hand. By far and away I prefer the articulated system and I use it with all the Kelton and Jordan Hollowers along with the provided cutters from Randy.
Bill

[Roger Chandler]

I have both hand held and the articulating system...............the reduction of catches and stress on the arms and wrists is well worth the investment if one plans on doing hollow form types of turnings as a regular part of their projects. Besides that, the laser attachment with an articulated or captured will also help you get a more consistent thickness to the wall, and most likely thinner as well.

[Bill Bulloch]

Great timing for this thread, I just sent an email to Randy asking about the Monster Articulating System. I would like to see a poll asking which do you like the best.

It seems here that the consensus so far is: the Articulating System for mediam and small depths and a Captive System for deep cuts. Small, mediam and deep are relative terms. What is the forum's consensus on "How deep is Deep" and "How deep is Mediam"? Reed mentioned that he uses the Articulating System for depths up to 8" does everyone feel that this is a "max" for the articulating system?