Doug Fir Workbench?

[Roy Lindberry]

So I'm realizing that buying a quality workbench is a long way out for financial reasons. The same is probably true for buying hardwoods like Maple and Oak.

I was thinking about running to the Lumber yard and getting some premium Doug Fir 2x4s and laminating them. I would then build the base from DF 4x4s etc. I could then add vices as finances allowed.

My basic work is hobbyist stuff, building furniture. Is this something that is practical? Or would DF be too soft to bother with? Is there anything else I should consider?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Derek Gilmer]

The all mighty Schwarz has discussed this, in fact I just read about it in his workbench tome. The fir is acceptable but his conclusion is that 2x4s are the bottom of the barrel in construction grade lumber and should be passed over for bench building. Instead get a 2x12 or 2x10 that looks good and rip the 4" stock from the edges. You get mostly quartersawn that way and much much fewer knots. All for about the same price.

After digging through stacks of lumber at HD and Lowes I can fully support his conclusion.

[Johnny Kleso]

If your goal is building fine furniture and not benchs thats all you need..

You can buy 2x12s and rip them as the wood is much more clear then 2x4s but again its a Work Bench that you beat and cut on..
I used 2x4s when I made mine and 7 years later still out doors and still in good condition..

I have never worked in a shop that had fine maple benchs, just 100 year old some kind of wood that was so old it was hard to tell what it was made from :)

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I'm in California, have had a doug fir and plywood torsion box workbench for about 10 years. Other than dings, varnish and dye drips and other blemishes, it has "built" a lot more furniture than my new "fancy" 21st century workbench made from traditional European Beech. As others have said, it's a workbench. Build it and get to making furniture! (I took my first design from American Woodworker -- bench under $200 and, like I've said, it's been great and still going strong despite the new replacement.)

Good luck!

[Derek Gilmer]

Not sure where you are located but have you looked for local sawyers? I found soft maple for cheaper per board foot than fir at home depot. Pine is even cheaper than that for the most part.

[John Sanford]

As noted, go with 2x8/10/12s (2x12's preferably) and rip the good parts off from the middle. Make sure that you get kiln dried 2x's, not green.

One thing to keep in mind is that Douglas Fir has tremendous differences in hardness between the very soft latewood and very hard early wood (or maybe it the other way around). Because of this, you really want to try to make sure the grain is oriented giving you QS wood when you look down at the bench. You need those grainlines as close as possible.

[Adam Cherubini]

My Nicholson bench is doug fir from Home Depot. I would recommed that design for this material. I used 2x12's and took Chris' advice and boutgh 16 footers as they were clearer than the 8's. I also looked for boards that:
a) had tight ring spacing as evidenced by the end grain
b) were sawn close to the heart
c) had dead straight secondaries

One trick when dealing with construction lumber is what to do about the corner radii. I planed down the width, not the thickness where I had joints. That's not a little bit of work, but it's far less than fixing the thickness.

Doug fir has this hard soft problem such that when you bash it, you can lift dagger-like fibers that can stab you. So I smooth planed my bench.

Also, it comes from the store pretty wet. I let it sit a few months before touching it and stacked and stickered it (after cross cutting) very carefully.

Last, I've been fairly gentle with it. It's gotten lighter (drier) and significantly harder since I bought the lumber.

Adam

[Robert Rozaieski]

Yes, DF is fine. So are yellow pine, white pine, ponderosa pine, spruce, hem-fir, alder, poplar, and pretty much any other kind of wood you can get your hands on inexpensively and locally. Choose the wider 2X boards (8s, 10s & 12s) instead of 2x4s (which will have more knots and defects that can't be sawn out), and rip your pieces from the wide boards. You'll get clearer pieces that way because you can cut around knots and defects.

Alternatively, don't laminate anything and make an English style bench from full width kiln dried 2X stock. I used 2X12 hem-fir, a couple 1x8 white pine boards, and two 8' DF 4x4s for the legs for my [third] bench. All told it cost me less than $100 for all the lumber. I built it entirely with hand tools, from start to finish, in about 3-4 days. It's the best bench I've ever used. Better than my first laminated bench (built from 2X material), and better than my second bench (laminated from birch, my least favorite of the three). But more importantly, it was the best one to build. It took the least effort, went together weeks faster than my laminated benches, was the easiest to flatten the top (because it wasn't laminated), and overall was much less stressful to build. I actually enjoyed building this bench. I can't say that for my other two benches.

Save the nice expensive wood for your furniture. Workbenches don't need to be made from fancy, expensive hardwood to work well as a workbench. You just need to be able to build them quickly, solidly and easily, and to suit the type of work you do.

Here's a podcast series I did on building it in case you are interested. Have fun!


182924

[Robert Rozaieski]

Adam beat me to it :).

[Derek Gilmer]

One other bit of advice on finding the dry boards. First option would be to take a moisture meter with you. Even a cheap home depot or harbor freight would work ok for this. Second option that may be as good is to go by weight. Pickup a good selection of the 2x12s. You will probably notice a large variation in how heavy they are. The lighter they are the dryer they are.

[Matthew Hills]

I'm also appreciating the advice I'm reading here.

On selecting construction lumber:
So if choosing 2x12s near the center, am I correct to assume that you'd cut out the pith or any tightly-radiused grain from near the center and just use the QS/rift-sawn wood from the edges? or is the center wood stable enough if not right at the pith?

Also, any idea why some boards in a pallet would be drier than others? I'd have thought that all of the lumber would have roughly similar origins/history, and anything "dry" would be the picked-over remnants from the last pallet.

Dry times:
I'd often read that thick wood takes a really long time to dry out (year+). Is the "few months" Adam indicated just sufficient to get it less-wet, or is the fir drying out much faster than a hardwood?

Thanks,
Matt

[Roy Lindberry]

Thanks everybody.

Your input has been extremely helpful and encouraging!

[Dan Sheehan]

I'm building a bench out DF too. The design involves a top of laminated 4x4. At least thats how I planned the base which I just constructed last night. Is this ill advised? At $11 for an eight footer, I thought a clear top near 3 1/2 for about $80 would be a good idea. Any comments? Thanks.

[Derek Gilmer]

I'm also appreciating the advice I'm reading here.

On selecting construction lumber:
So if choosing 2x12s near the center, am I correct to assume that you'd cut out the pith or any tightly-radiused grain from near the center and just use the QS/rift-sawn wood from the edges? or is the center wood stable enough if not right at the pith?

Also, any idea why some boards in a pallet would be drier than others? I'd have thought that all of the lumber would have roughly similar origins/history, and anything "dry" would be the picked-over remnants from the last pallet.

Dry times:
I'd often read that thick wood takes a really long time to dry out (year+). Is the "few months" Adam indicated just sufficient to get it less-wet, or is the fir drying out much faster than a hardwood?

Thanks,
Matt

They are unevenly dried because they are done fast and cheap. I don't have insider info on the drying process but I'd guess it relates to where the board was at in the kiln and how it was handled and stored before going into the kiln.

Yep on 2x12s you cut out the pith. When selecting the boards pick ones that have a good 4+" of quarter sawn knot free wood on them. HD and Lowes have a lot of lumber. And rarely get mad if you pick through it. Also, don't be in a hurry they rotate through lumber quickly so go back every week or so and see what they have in.

Dry times are greatly affected by your initial lumber selection. If you pick good dry (read light weight comparatively) boards you aren't really letting them air dry. You are letting them acclimate to your shop so a month or two is plenty. In this genre do not mill the boards to size then let them set. Let them set in full 2x12 size. Then mill them down to 2x4 the day you are going to glue them up. That will help prevent the "rocking chair" problem when they are cut and set over night.

Final advice. Drop the 15 or 20 bucks for Schwarz' first book. It has a ton of great info. I was hesitant at first. But after reading it I'll vouch that he will save you money,time and frustration during the build that more than pay for the book.

[Wilbur Pan]

I'm building a bench out DF too. The design involves a top of laminated 4x4. At least thats how I planned the base which I just constructed last night. Is this ill advised? At $11 for an eight footer, I thought a clear top near 3 1/2 for about $80 would be a good idea. Any comments? Thanks.
I used kiln-dried Douglas fir 4x4's for my workbench top. It worked great. Details here (http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=4088180&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1).

[Matthew Hills]

They are unevenly dried because they are done fast and cheap. I don't have insider info on the drying process but I'd guess it relates to where the board was at in the kiln and how it was handled and stored before going into the kiln.
so your local borgs carry kiln-dried 2x12 DF? (or 4x4's?) Thought out here in california we'd get whatever DF was available, but only seeing 1" KD whitewood at the borgs (other lumberyards have up to about 2x6 DF that has been dried)

Matt

[Derek Gilmer]

so your local borgs carry kiln-dried 2x12 DF? (or 4x4's?) Thought out here in california we'd get whatever DF was available, but only seeing 1" KD whitewood at the borgs (other lumberyards have up to about 2x6 DF that has been dried)

Matt

They have southern yellow pine and/or fir 2x (2-12) here. Never seen a 4x4 fir/syp at any of the HDs or Lowes I've visited in the state.

[glenn bradley]

I've told my horror story about BORG KD douglas fir so many times I feel like the KD-DF hater or something. The bench is still moving. Plenty strong but don't count on flat for long. If you have another flat surface for assembly its not really a problem, just an inconvenience to move to another surface every time you need a good reference surface. I had so much waste I could've bought properly milled poplar and come out ahead. So much for saving money :o

[Jim Koepke]

My curiosity is concerning the grain direction that is best for a bench top. My understanding is that the grain should be vertical instead of horizontal on a bench top.

On a different note, for building a bed frame the blue borg was raided for generic 2X3s with grain oriented with the long dimension. A lot of it was a bit on the moisture laden side. It was set out in our greenhouse for a few months and lost a lot of weight.

The bed platform has been in use for 10 months without any problems.

Here is the thread on that:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?142550

I have thought of using the same lumber for a bench with 2X4s for the strips where there will be dog holes and 4X6 along the front for a skirt.

It Hasn't been fully figured out yet, but my Sjoberg bench is starting to splinter on the underside from using hold fasts.

jtk

[Pam Niedermayer]

My curiosity is concerning the grain direction that is best for a bench top. My understanding is that the grain should be vertical instead of horizontal on a bench top. ...

Vertical grain would be a butcher block orientation, with end grain as the actual bench top. Is this what you want?

Pam

[Matt Ranum]

I needed to update my bench for quite a while, especially since I discovered hand tools. A high dollar bench was out of the question. I finally settled on the "New Fangled Workbench". Pretty much followed the original design with some minor sizing alterations. I was really wondering just how sturdy it was going to be given its fairly light framing. I was surprised at how rigid it came out, light years ahead of my old one.:cool:

I used 2x12x12's from HD cut them in half and ripped out the clearest sections and avoided the pith. Total cost ended up at less than $130.

[Dave Lehnert]

They have southern yellow pine and/or fir 2x (2-12) here. Never seen a 4x4 fir/syp at any of the HDs or Lowes I've visited in the state.

Lowes and Home Depot here in Cincinnati has SYP 4x4 stock (Non-treated) They have them displayed with the Cedar boards as they seemed to have replaced Cedar 4X4's

[Norman Hitt]

My curiosity is concerning the grain direction that is best for a bench top. My understanding is that the grain should be vertical instead of horizontal on a bench top. jtk

For stability, I like Rift sawn with the grain angle alternated from board to board, ie; looking at the end grain you would have one board w/grain from bottom left to top right, and the next board's grain top left to bottom right, then BL to TR and so on across the width of the top.

(I think this might be what you were referring to when you said "Vertical Grain")?

[Matt Radtke]

With the mention of finding cedar at Lowes and the like, I've often wondered: How terrible would cedar be for a bench? I sometimes find big, 8x8s and bigger, cedar beams on CL. I'd guess too light and soft, but I don't know. Would certainly be pretty and smell nice.

How crazy would I be to try it?

[Jim Koepke]

(I think this might be what you were referring to when you said "Vertical Grain")?

When lumber was selected for my platform bed build, the lumber selected had the grain running fairly straight from edge to edge in the long dimension.


With the mention of finding cedar at Lowes and the like, I've often wondered: How terrible would cedar be for a bench? I sometimes find big, 8x8s and bigger, cedar beams on CL. I'd guess too light and soft, but I don't know. Would certainly be pretty and smell nice.

How crazy would I be to try it?

I think there are a few different kinds of cedar. A lot cedar in my experience seems to be easy to splinter. ymmv

jtk

[Matt Radtke]

I think there are a few different kinds of cedar. A lot cedar in my experience seems to be easy to splinter. ymmv


Thats been my experiences as well.

[john brenton]

I am pretty set on doing either a laminated or solid slab front 1/2 or 1/3 (vise configuration pending), and using one or two boards of plywood for the back. You might want to consider that.

[Roy Lindberry]

So I'm realizing that buying a quality workbench is a long way out for financial reasons. The same is probably true for buying hardwoods like Maple and Oak.

I was thinking about running to the Lumber yard and getting some premium Doug Fir 2x4s and laminating them. I would then build the base from DF 4x4s etc. I could then add vices as finances allowed.

My basic work is hobbyist stuff, building furniture. Is this something that is practical? Or would DF be too soft to bother with? Is there anything else I should consider?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

After reading through, I think I'll go ahead with doug fir, but I'll probably go with 4x4 instead. When I get started (probably not until summer), I'll be sure to take some pictures and post them.

Thanks again, everybody, for the info.

[John Sanford]

You're probably much better off going with 2x12s. More work, but in my experience, 4x4s are much more prone to splitting/checking.

[Andrew Hansen]

I realize this is a necro-thread, but I have a friend considering Douglas Fir for his roubo. I built mine out of Ash, then built a second, smaller version for my sons to use when they come to help dad out in the shop (basically I set them to using the American Kid Bad Axe handsaw I got for them, hammering nails and using a block plane - starting with the basics!). I made it out of 4x6 douglas fir from a big box store and it has been awesome. It's still heavy so they can't move it around, the grain is dead straight, it's held flatness, and I can use holdfasts and planning stops in it just like on Daddys big bench. They love it. I think if you can find straight 4x4's it's the way to go - I just skip-planed it after I'd glued up the top halves (used a DW735 - it was before I got my JJP12-HH) and put it together. Highly recommended if anyone else is wondering about it! I'll try to upload a picture of it when I get home.

[Jim Koepke]

Highly recommended if anyone else is wondering about it! I'll try to upload a picture of it when I get home.

Who doesn't like pictures?

jtk

[steven c newman]

Recently bought and used a few untreared pine 4x4s from Menards. About $8 per 8'....
325616
They do have rounded over corners though..but they do look good.

[Doug Bowman]

Yes there are untreated 4x6s here in Oregon but they are green, I bought 3 of them for a platform bed for my son I am still waiting for them to curl up like a potato chip - they have not. I was considering buying 6 of them and gluing them up for a 6 inch thick top

[Frederick Skelly]

My bench is made from doug fir dimensional lumber (2x4, 2x6, fence post legs) that I bought from a BORG. I copied one of the high end scandanavian style benches, and built it for a couple hundred. It's a really nice bench, rock solid and very functional. For my hobbyist use, I can't see any reason to buy maple, etc.

I'd encourage you to do it Roy.
Fred

[Roy Lindberry]

My bench is made from doug fir dimensional lumber (2x4, 2x6, fence post legs) that I bought from a BORG. I copied one of the high end scandanavian style benches, and built it for a couple hundred. It's a really nice bench, rock solid and very functional. For my hobbyist use, I can't see any reason to buy maple, etc.

I'd encourage you to do it Roy.
Fred


Actually, I already did...and I love it: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207380-My-Bench-is-Finally-Done

I really have no complaints about the doug fir as a benchtop.

[Frederick Skelly]

Actually, I already did...and I love it: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207380-My-Bench-is-Finally-Done

I really have no complaints about the doug fir as a benchtop.

Rats! I didn't catch the date on your old post or read the ENTIRE thread. My error guys. Sorry.

Nice bench Roy. Glad it worked out for you.
Fred

[Kent Adams]

Yes, DF is fine. So are yellow pine, white pine, ponderosa pine, spruce, hem-fir, alder, poplar, and pretty much any other kind of wood you can get your hands on inexpensively and locally. Choose the wider 2X boards (8s, 10s & 12s) instead of 2x4s (which will have more knots and defects that can't be sawn out), and rip your pieces from the wide boards. You'll get clearer pieces that way because you can cut around knots and defects.

Alternatively, don't laminate anything and make an English style bench from full width kiln dried 2X stock. I used 2X12 hem-fir, a couple 1x8 white pine boards, and two 8' DF 4x4s for the legs for my [third] bench. All told it cost me less than $100 for all the lumber. I built it entirely with hand tools, from start to finish, in about 3-4 days. It's the best bench I've ever used. Better than my first laminated bench (built from 2X material), and better than my second bench (laminated from birch, my least favorite of the three). But more importantly, it was the best one to build. It took the least effort, went together weeks faster than my laminated benches, was the easiest to flatten the top (because it wasn't laminated), and overall was much less stressful to build. I actually enjoyed building this bench. I can't say that for my other two benches.

Save the nice expensive wood for your furniture. Workbenches don't need to be made from fancy, expensive hardwood to work well as a workbench. You just need to be able to build them quickly, solidly and easily, and to suit the type of work you do.

Here's a podcast series I did on building it in case you are interested. Have fun!

182924

Don't click on the link. It redirects you to an Asian sex site.

[Mike Null]

Kent
You're right about the link. Strange....

[Reinis Kanders]

His DNS expired and someone bought it because it had enough traffic.

Kent
You're right about the link. Strange....

[Gene Davis]

This one is easy to build, and very cost effective. I built mine in a weekend almost fifteen years ago, and it has been in continuous use ever since.

Have built a couple housefuls of furniture and built-ins using it, and many gift pieces.

The web page gives full instructions for doing it, and includes a shopping list. Plain old SPF 2x4s and fir plywood, plus a decent vise and an old handscrew. Easy, and absolutely rock-solid.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/toms-torsion-box-workbench

If you are a Sketchup user, there is a detailed model of it on the 3D Warehouse, so you can download it and study construction.

[Frederick Skelly]

Good stuff Gene! Should help someone build a nice bench. Thanks for posting.
Fred


This one is easy to build, and very cost effective. I built mine in a weekend almost fifteen years ago, and it has been in continuous use ever since.

Have built a couple housefuls of furniture and built-ins using it, and many gift pieces.

The web page gives full instructions for doing it, and includes a shopping list. Plain old SPF 2x4s and fir plywood, plus a decent vise and an old handscrew. Easy, and absolutely rock-solid.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/toms-torsion-box-workbench

If you are a Sketchup user, there is a detailed model of it on the 3D Warehouse, so you can download it and study construction.

[Pat Barry]

Recently bought and used a few untreared pine 4x4s from Menards. About $8 per 8'....
325616
They do have rounded over corners though..but they do look good.
I don't think Menards in MN have untreated 4x4 doug fir / pine 4x4's. Also don't recall seeing it in HD. They both do have cedar though.

[steven c newman]

I priced these at both Lowes and Menards...Menards was 2bucks cheaper. Yep, it is untreated pine 4x4x8'

[Clark Christenson]

I don't think Menards in MN have untreated 4x4 doug fir / pine 4x4's. Also don't recall seeing it in HD. They both do have cedar though.

But they do have doug fir 2x material, I think the Duluth Home Depot had 2x8's up through 2x12. I spent the weekend ripping 2x12's into 2x4's then planing them for my upcoming bench.

Clark