Glue Choice?

[Byron Trantham]

I have to make a bunch of 10' x 2' wide panels (shutters) for outdoor use. The construction requires gluing. Is Titebond II good enough or is there something else better? The glue joint won't be "supporting any weight" but it will be fairly large, 3 - 10' x 3.5" strips glued to the back of the face board. Glue is the only option "no nails allowed". :mad:

[Mark Singer]

Tite Bond III ! It is much better

[Hunter Wallace]

You might want to consider "Gorilla Glue" or some other
polyurethane glue. They excel at exterior applications.

[Ed Hardin]

Another vote for Titebond III

[Jerry Olexa]

Titebond III!! Gorilla glue works well outside also but IMHO is hard (messy) to work with...

[Steve Cox]

Weldwood would be my choice.

[Bart Leetch]

Have they made a new water proof weldwood glue?

As far as I know Weldwood glue is water resistant but not water proof & moisture will eventually penetrate the joint.

[Byron Trantham]

Thanks guys. It looks like Titebond III. :p

[Bob Smalser]

In the old days, we woulda used a powdered urea resin glue like Weldwood or DAP. These days, poly or epoxy are much better.

Poly (I buy Elmers as it is cheaper than Gorilla Glue) is fine for above-waterline use where you can apply some clamping pressure, which it likes. Epoxy for below waterline and where you can't apply strong clamping pressure. I'd use poly for your panel application. With poly, the wood needs some moisture, so wipe the faying surfaces down with a damp rag if real dry. Epoxy, OTOH, needs lower than 12% M/C and most outdoor cedars are dried to 19%.

All the above can be successfully glued over with epoxy should the joint ever fail, and epoxy can be glued over itself after keying the surface.

Aliphatics and PVA's like all white and yellow glues can't be glued over once they have contaminated a joint...and because of that, there hasn't been a bottle of it in my shop for 25 years.

Dunno 'bout Titebond III except it's not a poly and I'm suspicious....until I'm shown it can be repaired better than other aliphatics, there is no reason for me to even try it given the other choices out there today.

I don't do work that can't be repaired. The thought of some repair or restoration guy down the line cussing my work like I've cussed some of my short-sighted predecessors just doesn't set well.

[Mike Kelly]

Titebond III would be my choice.

Someone mentioned Weldwood not being waterproof. This two-part adhesive makes a nearly bullet-proof bond between a variety of porous and semi-porous materials. According to the manufacturer, Weldwood Resorcinol Glue is designed for “severe service applications,” and that once cured it is impervious to salt or fresh water immersion, temperature extremes, oils and grease and solvents. It consists of a liquid resin and a powdered catalyst.

I have made plywood boats with this stuff and it outlasts wood for sure. Some states have outlawed it however. I can't legally get it in Texas. Maybe because of the formaldehide outgassing? Used properly it rocks, but Titebond III is easier, cheaper, and cleans up with water.

[Bob Smalser]

Some states have outlawed it however. I can't legally get it in Texas.

News to me.

I was referring to Weldwood urea formaldehyde plastic resin glue, not the resorcinol they also make. Water resistant, not waterproof and rated for below the waterline like resorcinol.

Great stuff, resorcinol, but you need 70 degrees or higher and a whole bunch of clamping pressure to use it well. Also a dark purple glue line. Still has its applications in woods that don't like epoxy, but it's so relatively difficult to use it's not common anymore in shops without good climate control.

[Don Selke]

Hey Bob:

I really do not like using poly glue, just hate the stuff. What do you use for interior work, I still like using hide glue, the stuff you heat not the bottle stuff. Every time I have tried poly, I got the stuff all over the place. I know that it is probably me and not the product, I just do not like it.

[Bob Smalser]

I use urea resin for indoor furniture, hot hide glue for chairs and poly or epoxy outdoors. Resorcinol rarely.

I also use a lot of relatively wet airdried wood out here in the wet, making poly a real boon in wood a bit too damp for epoxy.

Also...layups of real thick stock become problematic with epoxy....even the best jointing jobs in 8/4+ stock require lots of clamping pressure - sometimes enough to starve an epoxy joint.

When fussy about it, I clean up after poly glueups with alcohol and don't find it especially messy.

The other boon of poly in production work is that if you thickness plane your laidup panels within 12 hours, you don't have to scrape glue joints...the poly foam is soft enuf then not to chip or dull your planer blades.

[Steve Clardy]

I got a gallon of the new titebond 3. I lost 10 door panels, and had to rerip and reglue with the reliable #1.
Maybe be a bad batch or something. Looks like the glue has seperated in the jug. Water on top, very runny. No more for me.

[Bob Smalser]

I got a gallon of the new titebond 3. I lost 10 door panels, and had to rerip and reglue with the reliable #1.
.

How is an old joint glued with PVA repaired?

You steam the piece apart and pare away all the old PVA back to clean, bare wood. Then you get to make a new joint....in a piece you can get completely apart you can either do a floating tenon or plug and recut the mortise slightly smaller and pare the tenon to fit...or if it won't come completely apart you can use veneer shims (inferior).

Sure, you can use thickened epoxy that'll fill the loose joint, but that introduces a separate set of problems in dismantling. Epoxy joints are wrapped in linseed-soaked rags to protect the finish and put under the heat lamps for the 45 minutes it takes to heat the joint then you pound it apart with a rubber mallet. Once you get it apart, the epoxy reglues very well after sanding, but dismantling is unreliable and difficult.

In a valuable old piece of furniture worth saving, you'll often find several different flavors of homeowner-grade glue and brad repairs in otherwise excellent joinery that make conservation work so much fun.

And modern woodworkers, of course, are taught to introduce these unrepairable products into their work from the getgo.

The thought of a "waterproof" PVA glue I can't break apart easily with steam makes my teeth itch.



Heck...if my pieces last the rest of my lifetime, I'll be more than happy.

Yup....but your Granddaughter or Greatgranddaughter probably won't be when somebody like me tells her the piece can't be saved economically.

[Steve Clardy]

How is an old joint glued with PVA repaired?

You steam the piece apart and pare away all the old PVA back to clean, bare wood. Then you get to make a new joint....in a piece you can get completely apart you can either do a floating tenon or plug and recut the mortise slightly smaller and pare the tenon to fit...or if it won't come completely apart you can use veneer shims (inferior).

Sure, you can use thickened epoxy that'll fill the loose joint, but that introduces a separate set of problems in dismantling. Epoxy joints are wrapped in linseed-soaked rags to protect the finish and put under the heat lamps for the 45 minutes it takes to heat the joint then you pound it apart with a rubber mallet. Once you get it apart, the epoxy reglues very well after sanding, but dismantling is unreliable and difficult.

In a valuable old piece of furniture worth saving, you'll often find several different flavors of homeowner-grade glue and brad repairs in otherwise excellent joinery that make conservation work so much fun.

And modern woodworkers, of course, are taught to introduce these unrepairable products into their work from the getgo.

The thought of a "waterproof" PVA glue I can't break apart easily with steam makes my teeth itch.




Yup....but your Granddaughter or Greatgranddaughter probably won't be when somebody like me tells her the piece can't be saved economically.

???? These were NEW panels, clamped up.
I was just telling my first experience with the new titebond 3.
Steve:)

[Bob Smalser]

I was just following up your experience with a bad batch of glue with another facet of "glue failure" few bother to think about...

...but should.

[Steve Clardy]

I was just following up your experience with a bad batch of glue with another facet of "glue failure" few bother to think about...

...but should.
Ok. Thats cool. Just wondering.:confused:;):)