Old Apple HF

[Baxter Smith]

This small HF is from the same tree as the “Old Apple Trio” I posted last week. It had dried pretty oval and I was afraid I might start hollowing from the outside.;)

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Once rounded, the tenon was too small to be gripped by my 50 mm Nova Jaws.
I ended up making a very shallow DTR for my 35mm bowl jaws which have no more surface area than pin jaws when it comes to grasping a tenon. Any suggestions as to what type of Nova jaws would be best for grasping a tenon that has shrunk too much to use the 50mm again?

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I was thinking that alternating light/dark woods from bottom to top might look interesting but didn’t have any dry apple sapwood to use. Thought holly would be too white so went with maple.


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I wasn’t particularly happy with the color of the maple, or the look of the pedestal with the HF so scrapped that idea.

Decided to keep it as a low HF and forget about adding a maple lid under the finial.


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Since I had tossed out the idea of using the pedestal at all, I didn’t think about trying to shape the top onion to match the lower.

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My wife thinks it looks better with the pedestal inverted.
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I don’t know what to think (other than its time to move on):), so I almost feel like taking a poll before I permanently attach anything.
HF only.
HF with finial
HF with pedestal
HF with inverted pedestal
Kindling

Comments or critiques are always welcome!

11 ¾ x 5 ¼ finished with AO

[Tim Rinehart]

Great work on this piece Baxter. I like Pedestal Inverted.
Also, on topic of what to do with shrinkage and fitting new tenon...what about gluing on a waste block?

[Michael James]

HF with the finial, especially if you have children around:D. It's an interesting piece and thanks for externalizing your thought process. It seems there are always choices at every turn. It's a keeper!
mj

[Jon Nuckles]

I like them all, so if you decide on kindling send it to me instead and I'll send you some fatwood. The grain and coloring of the form itself is so pretty that I think I like the HF only best, but all are nice.

[Tim Thiebaut]

Very nice piece Baxter, I like the one with both finials faceing up in the traditional manor personaly. You mentioned something about making a shallow "DTR", what does DTR stand for?

[Jon McElwain]

I really like these "pole" type threads where there are several options to critique. I think it helps the poster get a sense of what is pleasing to an audience (and an audience that looks at these one a fairly regular basis), gets the mind out of a stall when you cannot decide, and gives all of us some practice in discerning what a pleasing form is.

Anyway, as far as my opinion goes....

I am having a hard time choosing between the HF with finial, and the HF with finial and pedestal (not inverted). The finial only is a very pleasing form and demonstrates all the aspects of form, flow, precision, etc. that make a piece appealing. The finial only also feels complete - it does not look like it needs anything else and there is nothing left to take away. The HF with finial and pedestal seems almost imperceivably out of balance between the finial and the pedestal. The pedestal might do with just a little more heft in the onion? Even so, it too demonstrates all the characteristics of an appealing HF on a stick! I think the HF and HF with pedestal only are both missing something.

I do like the inverted pedestal, but I would choose it after the other two options because the foot is too small for my eye. The ogee helps give the HF a good foundation and a little bit of interest at the bottom of the piece in its non-inverted position, but with the plain foot (inverted pedestal) it is missing that foundation and interest at the bottom of the piece. I really like the idea of an inverted onion though. I do not think that I have seen anyone do this before other than on an ornament (sea urchin type especially). I would be very interested in seeing someone explore that design (I would like to explore it myself even more, but, after running my business, raising 3 little girls, being a husband, maintaining the house and cars, etc. etc., my school work pretty much corks me off for having any time to turn (3 completed projects in the last 2 years) - hey at least I am getting straight "A's" in school - I am actually sort of confused about how that is happening). Anyway, I think your HF would look splendid with the onion inverted, and an ogee foot.

Personally, I would set it up on the mantle with just the finial for a couple of weeks, then put the pedestal under it for a couple more. You will probably be able to tell which you like more based on your initial reactions at the time when you change it. Hope that helps and thanks for posting a really pretty piece!

[Roger Chandler]

Nice job on this Baxter.........I appreciate your pics and the process as you described. Amazing what some of you guys come up with. Pretty stuff, but I like the pedestal with the bulb on the bottom side..........but I am an advocate of turning to suit oneself, and not trying to please everybody else......so good job!!!

[Jim Burr]

Ha!! what a great illusion Baxter! I'd have to vote for the tear drop down, but the way inverting it changes the whole piece is amazing!! Beautiful!!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for sharing Baxter. I do like the last pic's.

[David E Keller]

Pretty cool, Baxter. I love that you showed all of the possible combinations. Of the all the permutations, I think I like the form by itself sans pedestal and finial.

[Richard Madden]

I'll vote for the inverted pedestal. I do, however, think the base could be a little larger in diameter.

[Brian Effinger]

Certainly not kindling. I think finial, but no pedestal. It's a little heavier toward the bottom of the form, and to me, doesn't look right with the pedestal. But that's just me. is

I too would like to know what DTR is. And any solution to the small tenon as well. It happens more than I'd like to admit.

[Don Alexander]

always listen to your wife , Baxter hehe i tend to agree with her on this one

[Baxter Smith]

Great work on this piece Baxter. I like Pedestal Inverted.
Also, on topic of what to do with shrinkage and fitting new tenon...what about gluing on a waste block?
Tim, I considered gluing on a wasteblock but I wasn't sure how to flatten out the tenon, then glue on the block and have it centered. Guess I was in too much of a rush to think it through at the time.

Very nice piece Baxter, I like the one with both finials faceing up in the traditional manor personaly. You mentioned something about making a shallow "DTR", what does DTR stand for?
Thanks Tim, the DTR stands for dovetail recess. Made it about an 1/8 deep in the bottom of the form so I could grip in the expansion mode with my 35mm jaws.


I really like these "pole" type threads where there are several options to critique. I think it helps the poster get a sense of what is pleasing to an audience (and an audience that looks at these one a fairly regular basis), gets the mind out of a stall when you cannot decide, and gives all of us some practice in discerning what a pleasing form is.

Anyway, as far as my opinion goes....

I am having a hard time choosing between the HF with finial, and the HF with finial and pedestal (not inverted). The finial only is a very pleasing form and demonstrates all the aspects of form, flow, precision, etc. that make a piece appealing. The finial only also feels complete - it does not look like it needs anything else and there is nothing left to take away. The HF with finial and pedestal seems almost imperceivably out of balance between the finial and the pedestal. The pedestal might do with just a little more heft in the onion? Even so, it too demonstrates all the characteristics of an appealing HF on a stick! I think the HF and HF with pedestal only are both missing something.

I do like the inverted pedestal, but I would choose it after the other two options because the foot is too small for my eye. The ogee helps give the HF a good foundation and a little bit of interest at the bottom of the piece in its non-inverted position, but with the plain foot (inverted pedestal) it is missing that foundation and interest at the bottom of the piece. I really like the idea of an inverted onion though. I do not think that I have seen anyone do this before other than on an ornament (sea urchin type especially). I would be very interested in seeing someone explore that design (I would like to explore it myself even more, but, after running my business, raising 3 little girls, being a husband, maintaining the house and cars, etc. etc., my school work pretty much corks me off for having any time to turn (3 completed projects in the last 2 years) - hey at least I am getting straight "A's" in school - I am actually sort of confused about how that is happening). Anyway, I think your HF would look splendid with the onion inverted, and an ogee foot.

Personally, I would set it up on the mantle with just the finial for a couple of weeks, then put the pedestal under it for a couple more. You will probably be able to tell which you like more based on your initial reactions at the time when you change it. Hope that helps and thanks for posting a really pretty piece!
Thanks for taking the time to write all your all your thoughts. I shall probably just let it sit for awhile as you suggested. Sounds like you are keeping busy! Your time for turning will come.

Nice job on this Baxter.........I appreciate your pics and the process as you described. Amazing what some of you guys come up with. Pretty stuff, but I like the pedestal with the bulb on the bottom side..........but I am an advocate of turning to suit oneself, and not trying to please everybody else......so good job!!!
Thanks Roger. I do this just for fun but bouncing thoughts and questions off all of you has been the key to allowing me to improve.
Certainly not kindling. I think finial, but no pedestal. It's a little heavier toward the bottom of the form, and to me, doesn't look right with the pedestal. But that's just me. is

I too would like to know what DTR is. And any solution to the small tenon as well. It happens more than I'd like to admit.

Thanks Brian, DTR is a dovetail recess. I have a few more drying that I think will end up too small as well.
I picked up a G3 chuck with some accessory jaws a while back thinking the 35 mm jaws would be just the thing but they are shaped just like the 25 mm pin jaws internally.

Thanks for all the comments. They are appreciated! I suppose this is a good example of how opinions on style differ between turners since every option was reccomended by at least one.
From my vantage point, the HF by itself is ok. The finial dresses it up a bit and makes it complete but I am not sure about better.???? The pedestal makes it look "fancier" but is somehow off though I am not sure why. Thanks for letting me bounce my thoughts off those in the "know"!:)

[Jim Sebring]

I had a similar problem on a re-turn recently. The tenon was a tad too small for the 50mm jaws by the time I got it round again. I ended up using my G3 with the 45mm spigot jaws. Even though the jaws are not dovetailed, they held just fine on a ~1/4" long dovetail-cut tenon.

[John Keeton]

Baxter, while you did an excellent job on the pedestal and finial, I think this form stands on its own quite well! And, that would be my choice given the options. Nice work!!

[Baxter Smith]

always listen to your wife , Baxter hehe i tend to agree with her on this one
Wise man Don!

I had a similar problem on a re-turn recently. The tenon was a tad too small for the 50mm jaws by the time I got it round again. I ended up using my G3 with the 45mm spigot jaws. Even though the jaws are not dovetailed, they held just fine on a ~1/4" long dovetail-cut tenon.
Thanks Jim, I will check out the spigot jaws.

Baxter, while you did an excellent job on the pedestal and finial, I think this form stands on its own quite well! And, that would be my choice given the options. Nice work!!
Thanks John. My first thought on a pedestal for this piece was actually a "different option". Something with a wider top and bottom and just a smooth curve in between. Habits got the best of me so went with what I had done before. Not much of an out of the box thinker.

[Allan Ferguson]

Baxter; I have done a few bowl and such expecting to have warping. Sized the tenon larger then usual allowing it to be returned to a smaller size that would still fit my jaws. Allan

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Nice work Baxter, and I think you know my preference ;-)), it doesn't need any distractions ;-)))