Sheetrock problem

[David Larsen]

Not exactly a woodworking question, but construction related.

I did some sheetrocking. It has been taped, mudded, and painted this last fall. A few of the inside corners are now buckling and stretching apart. What did I do wrong? And Is there a tool that can fix it or what can I do to fix it or prevent it?

I have heard of this before and seen that sometimes this gets better in the summer, but will bulge out again every winter.

[hank dekeyser]

Above grade or in the basement ? what part of the world are you in ? What is the framing under the rock ?

If you are dealing with an area prone to moisture (basement, etc) or didnt use an appropriate moisture barrier. ,or ??? I'm not sure I understand it when you say "buckling and stretching apart" Do you mean you have cracks forming in the mud joints or what ? SO many things could come into play. was is plaster based or just "drywall" what did you tape the seams with, what duid you use for mud, how long did you wait to paint, etc. ???? Something moved (most likely the framing) and took the rock with it. WHo did the work ?

Need more facts to be able to make a better educated guess. without seeing it and knowing more thats all a person can do - is guess

[scott vroom]

Can you post some pics? From your description it's not clear what the problem is.

[David Larsen]

Minnesota. Stick framed 2 x 6 walls. 1/2 sheetrock over a poly vapor barrier. Above grade. No moisture issues. Paper tape using all purpose joint compound.

Not really a crack.

More like the walls are pulling and causing the tape in the corner to stretch so that if you poke your finger into the inside corner then there is a void behind it. It wasn't this way when it was first finished. The job looked just like any other.

I have seen this before and in the summer it will go back into shape.

The framing is secure.

[Joe Angrisani]

Paper tape wasn't wet enough, especially if you used all purpose joint compund right out of the bucket. That stuff needs to be soaked with a thin mix on both sides.

[David Larsen]

Paper tape wasn't wet enough, especially if you used all purpose joint compund right out of the bucket. That stuff needs to be soaked with a thin mix on both sides.

The tape isn't coming loose. It is tight and was wet enough. (not like letting loose or falling off)

It is almost like the room is the inside of a balloon and the walls are stretching out and the seam is being stretched.

[Joe Angrisani]

Sorry... Your description (in your first post today) made it sound like there was a void behind the tape itself.

Post a picture.

[Alan Schaffter]

Corner framing is not anchored properly or the wall board not properly attached to to both sides of the corner. It almost sounds like a floating corner. Try adding additional screws to both sides of the corner.

[David Larsen]

Corner framing is not anchored properly or the wall board not properly attached to to both sides of the corner. It almost sounds like a floating corner. Try adding additional screws to both sides of the corner.

I feel pretty confident that the framing is secure. The sheetrock itself probably has a screw every 12 inches or so on the edge. If I were to make a guess, I would think that putting a screw every 6 inches would bind it to the corner and would have kept it secure. The sheetrock doesn't feel loose, but the extra screws would have kept it about as secure as possible. Is every 6 inches overkill?

[David Larsen]

182797

I drew up a quick sketchup drawing because it would probably show it better than a picture. The red is the studs and how it was framed. The gray is the insulated cavity. The white is the 1/2 sheetrock. The arrow points to the inside corner. When this was taped and mudded, it was a perfect 90 degree corner. Over the last couple of months, the tape has pulled away from the back of the corner. (this is depicted in blue). And appears like it is stretching. Like I said, I have seen this before and it goes back into shape in the summer. I could clean out the corner and re-tape and mud and texture, but am looking for a cause so that it doesn't happen again to the repair.

[Joe Angrisani]

Have you seen it go back tight with the seasons? Or is this your first winter with the problem?

If this is the first winter, perhaps the vertical corner stud in your drawing has cupped? (the left-most vertical 2x6) Did you actually check the corner for 90 before sheetrocking? If so, check it now and see if it's off.

The sheetrock itself feels solidly mounted, right? Along both corner edges?

[Alan Schaffter]

I hope the drawing (especially the sheetrock layer) is not drawn to scale. Otherwise the sheetrock would be about 7/8" thick or the framing 1" thick!n Often what happens is the short overlap doesn't get screwed properly or misses the stud. 12" is too far between screws- if one screw missed the stud, then you have 24" of the edge unsupported.

Another possible cause- the corner studs aren't tied together (nailed) along their length, which will allow them to move at different rates- outside one will be affected by cold more than the inside one. Also, is the corner post positioned over a floor joist?

[David Larsen]

This is the first winter for this corner, but I have seen it on another corner at a different house and this goes back into place in the summer.

I trust that the 2 x is good and the corner was 90.

The sheetrock feels secure, but the back edge of the tape has a void behind it because of the pull.

[David Larsen]

The 2 x wall was built with the crown out.

[Joe Angrisani]

Is the corner still 90?

[David Larsen]

The walls of the corner are still 90, but the inside of the tape is stretched out across the inside of the corner.

[phil harold]

without pictures I will assume that the tape is wrinkled



this is a normal thing that happens to walls when one wall moves up or down and the other wall does not.

depending on the age, location, or construction method of the building this could be caused by settling, framing shrinkage, truss movement, frost heave

fix the reason for movement then retape

[David Larsen]

This is new construction. It really isn't wrinkled. It is more like stretched. I will try to get a pic.

The foundation and walls are square.

I haven't ruled out framing shrinkage.

[David Larsen]

I know of three different new houses that have a similar problem. All three were built by, sheetrocked by, and taped by different people. I am trying to figure out what the common denominator is or what is causing this so I can address it.

[Chris Fournier]

I am going to bet that your problem is due to the shrinking of your 2" X 6" studs during this cold dry winter. I built an addition on my home using the same construction and have experienced the same condition. A 2" X 6" can shrink quite a bit and two shrinking away from a corner makes it even worse. My corners close back up in the spring with only a tell tale paint crack here and there.

As you've described, the condition can look a bit different over the entire room. In some places it looks like the tape is buckling, in others the sharp inside corner becomes a gentle radius and in other places, the tape tears from the wallboard.

[Jason Roehl]

Well, the best fix for your problem is pretty time-consuming at this point. There was an article in a building magazine several years ago (I think the Journal of Light Construction) that talked about how to virtually eliminate drywall callbacks. A large builder in Chicago undertook the new process, and their average callback cost dropped from something like $1500 per home to $150 per home.

The key is to NOT fasten the drywall close to any corners (within 12-16"), and use the F-clips between the intersecting sheets of drywall. This allows any stress due to wood movement, shrinkage or expansion to be distributed over a wider area of drywall instead of focused on the joint in the corner.

[David Larsen]

I am going to bet that your problem is due to the shrinking of your 2" X 6" studs during this cold dry winter. I built an addition on my home using the same construction and have experienced the same condition. A 2" X 6" can shrink quite a bit and two shrinking away from a corner makes it even worse. My corners close back up in the spring with only a tell tale paint crack here and there.

As you've described, the condition can look a bit different over the entire room. In some places it looks like the tape is buckling, in others the sharp inside corner becomes a gentle radius and in other places, the tape tears from the wallboard.

This sounds like the exact situation. Have you done anything to fix it? On a different house I did some repairs and one place I tried caulking the gap in the winter, but in the summer the caulk squeezed out of the gap. It happens on an inside corner where two outside walls meet.

I have attached a pic or the problem area. (this isn't one that was caulked)182808

[scott vroom]

It could be caused by moisture or by warping or cupping. I've edited the pic to show the fix for a warping/cupping problem.

[Joe Angrisani]

Yep Scott... Same 2x6 I suggested was cupped back in post #11. I've never seen a corner done David's way.

[phil harold]

Well, the best fix for your problem is pretty time-consuming at this point.
The key is to NOT fasten the drywall close to any corners (within 12-16"), and use the F-clips between the intersecting sheets of drywall. This allows any stress due to wood movement, shrinkage or expansion to be distributed over a wider area of drywall instead of focused on the joint in the corner.


On a different house I did some repairs and one place I tried caulking the gap in the winter, but in the summer the caulk squeezed out of the gap. It happens on an inside corner where two outside walls meet.

I have attached a pic or the problem area. (this isn't one that was caulked)182808
Jason has the the cure but you would end up sheet rocking the whole wall or so to accomplish

Your crack is small compared to others I have seen and repaired

on this one I would try one of two methods

Use elastomeric grade caulking do not just fill the crack make a real caulk joint so there is a bout 1/4" over the crack and tooled flush to walls

I would buy 'crack be gone" in a spray can for an 8' crack i would use about one can per corner needs multiple coats sometimes up to five then repaint it is a rubber type of paint works on some cracks follow instructions on can
houses move from season to season floating the sheet rock with clips will reduce cracks significantly

x

[phil harold]

Yep Scott... Same 2x6 I suggested was cupped back in post #11. I've never seen a corner done David's way.

New houses are using this method
less studs means less heat loss

isolating the sheetrock from the movement is the only real way to stop the cracks
getting sheet rockers to change thie methods and float corners with f-clips are like trying to teach an old dog new tricks

[Joe Angrisani]

Phil wrote: "...less studs means less heat loss...."
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Means less something else, too. :)

[scott vroom]

IMO it's best to avoid using the unblocked face side of dimensional lumber for drywall nailers, both field and corners...today's lumber cut from small trees just bends too much, and the movement on the face is often worse than on the edge. I can't tell from the poster's drawing how many inches that 2x6 is hanging out unsupported, but that may be the problem. The framing in the picture may meet local code, but I would've blocked the board before using it as a nailer....with either a cut down stud behind it or a full stud next to it.

[David Larsen]

The drawing I made is not to scale, but I put measurements in so that you would get the idea of how it was layed out. The wall is 2 x 6 with 7/16 OSB on the outside and 1/2 horizontal drywall on the inside. I looked back at some framing pictures and the next stud is actually within about 3 inches of the corner also, so there is a lot of support there. The framing style is common practice and a lot easier to insulate after the fact. Making a corner post requires a small batt of insulation added prior to sheeting like the way Scott edited the picture. The 2 x 6 extends into the corner 1 1/2 because it is offset that far by the outside 2 x.182863 This is a picture of what the framing looks like behind the corner that is causing the problem. I can guarantee that the corner is spiked together adequately in the corner framing.

[John Toigo]

However it's framed, and I've built a lot of corners like that - the wood is moving. Sounds like it's due to seasonal changes in humidity. The wood gets drier in the winter & shrinks causing the corner to 'gap'.

[David Larsen]

However it's framed, and I've built a lot of corners like that - the wood is moving. Sounds like it's due to seasonal changes in humidity. The wood gets drier in the winter & shrinks causing the corner to 'gap'.

What is the best way to fix it so that it stays and doesn't keep pulling apart?

[Joe Angrisani]

Hey Guys.... How much of this is initial drying of wet modern lumber, and how much is seasonal drying??

[hank dekeyser]

Up here in Wisconsin, we cut the straps on a bundle of lumber and if it sits more than a week - its junk. Hell , half the crap they send out these days is junk - I can guarantee that you have movement in the framing- period - If you didnt, the rock would be stable - period ! Wood moves, rock doesnt. IF IT WAS BUILT RIGHT you wouldnt have this problem. Somebody either didnt build it right, didnt fasten it properly, or just plain threw the house up way too quick. The way to "fix it" is tear it apart and re-do it. The way to "repair it" is a tube of painters caulk. If everything is as tight and sound as you think it is- you wouldn't have the problem - Sounds like the low bid got the job? As for "everyone builds their corners like this" You are wrong - The guys that stand behind their work still build quality plumb and square homes. Theres more to this than what we're hearing

[Alan Schaffter]

Up here in Wisconsin, we cut the straps on a bundle of lumber and if it sits more than a week - its junk. Hell , half the crap they send out these days is junk - I can guarantee that you have movement in the framing- period - If you didnt, the rock would be stable - period ! Wood moves, rock doesnt. IF IT WAS BUILT RIGHT you wouldnt have this problem. Somebody either didnt build it right, didnt fasten it properly, or just plain threw the house up way too quick. The way to "fix it" is tear it apart and re-do it. The way to "repair it" is a tube of painters caulk. If everything is as tight and sound as you think it is- you wouldn't have the problem - Sounds like the low bid got the job? As for "everyone builds their corners like this" You are wrong - The guys that stand behind their work still build quality plumb and square homes. Theres more to this than what we're hearing

+1. I agree. Either the corner wasn't constructed correctly, the wall or corner post is not over a joist/sill plate, foundation settled or is on marine clay, etc. etc. I have a problem with a corner in my MBR, but I know exactly the cause- the pier under that section of the house settled.

Time to call in "Homes on Homes" he'll get to the bottom of this! :D:D

[phil harold]

What is the best way to fix it so that it stays and doesn't keep pulling apart?

clips are one way to isolate the movement from the SheetRock
The house will always move
could be seasonal temp, humidity or truss lift or...

framing angle could be used also

with "green movement" less framing material is going to be the norm

fyi
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/published-articles/pa-future-of-framing

[David Larsen]

Up here in Wisconsin, we cut the straps on a bundle of lumber and if it sits more than a week - its junk. Hell , half the crap they send out these days is junk - I can guarantee that you have movement in the framing- period - If you didnt, the rock would be stable - period ! Wood moves, rock doesnt. IF IT WAS BUILT RIGHT you wouldnt have this problem. Somebody either didnt build it right, didnt fasten it properly, or just plain threw the house up way too quick. The way to "fix it" is tear it apart and re-do it. The way to "repair it" is a tube of painters caulk. If everything is as tight and sound as you think it is- you wouldn't have the problem - Sounds like the low bid got the job? As for "everyone builds their corners like this" You are wrong - The guys that stand behind their work still build quality plumb and square homes. Theres more to this than what we're hearing

182928

The corner is framed like the upper left picture (Situation 1) and is common framing practice.

#1. I framed the project.
#2. I sheetrocked the project.
#3. I taped and mudded the project.
#4. It is fastened tight.
#5. It was plumb, level, and square when it was built.
#6. It is built on a 24 inch thick monolithic slab with thickened edge.
#7. It is built on stable ground.
#8. The lumber was purchased from a local lumberyard and not a BORG.
#9. The framing is a common three stud method using 2x6 material and very secure when nailed.
#10. I didn't this "throw the project up".
#11. I wasn't the "lowest" bid.
#12. I use quality products.
#13. I have over 20 years experience, but typically only do remodeling and cabinet work.

I have narrowed it down to three possibilities.
(1) The 1/2 wall sheetrock is screwed with 1 1/4 screws and has a screw about every 10 inches along this edge. More screws wouldn't hurt.
(2) Of the 300+ 2x6 studs used, one could have twisted after install behind this corner.
(3) The corner is nailed together to secure it. I could have added screws to give it more security.

(All of these things could happen to any builder. The techniques used are common practice with many builders. I ended up with a bad corner and was looking for some advice because I haven't had this problem on a regular basis and was looking for someone that has seen it before and knows exactly what the problem is)

I have given all of the available information in hopes of finding a solution, but what I got was INSULTED! If I did something wrong, point it out so that I can make sure it doesn't happen again. I want to stand behind this project and fix it the right way, but don't want to fix it now and have the problem resurface later.

[Joe Angrisani]

You didn't get insulted. You got the best diagnosis we could give without magicvision. Thirty six posts later and you're still insisting "it can't be me" and "it can't be my technique" and "it can't be my supplies".

It's one of those. :)

[David Larsen]

You didn't get insulted. You got the best diagnosis we could give without magicvision. Thirty six posts later and you're still insisting "it can't be me" and "it can't be my technique" and "it can't be my supplies".It's one of those. :)

The insult was "IF IT WAS BUILT RIGHT you wouldnt have this problem" and "Somebody either didnt build it right" , "didnt fasten it properly", or "just plain threw the house up way too quick" and "Sounds like the low bid got the job" and "As for "everyone builds their corners like this" You are wrong - The guys that stand behind their work still build quality plumb and square homes. Theres more to this than what we're hearing".

I did not say that it "Can't be me" and "It can't be my techique" and "It can't be my supplies". I gave all the information I could so that I could get an informed answer based on what I could supply you with.

If it is me, lets figure it out.

* If I put nails every 12 inches or so to tie the corner studs together, should I have done more? Isn't that enough? Is it common building practice to use more nails? (I would estimate that there is probably at least 12 16d nails tying the corner together)

* If I put screws in the sheetrock every 10 inches or so to fasten it to the studs, should I have done more? Isn't that enough? Is it common building practice to use more screws?

* If I bought materials from a reputable lumberyard, should I have bought from someone else? (I avoided the BORG for lumber, sheetrock, etc.)

* If I framed the corner using a common framing practice, should I have done more? I know there are other techniques, but if other builders are using the same technique, why did I have this issue and nobody else?

I came here trying to find if anyone else has ever ran into this problem and if so, did they find out what caused it, and how did they remedy it?

I feel that I have a reputation for good workmanship and if nothing else, would probably be accused of "over-building" something instead of cutting corners. I have two others working with me and feel that they possess the same qualities.

The both times I had this happen to me were in a Southeast corner of new construction. Maybe a small amount of pull in a Southwest corner showing some stress, but not like the Southeast corner. ALL other corners in the building are holding fine! I know another guy that framed his house and hired out the sheetrock, tape, and mud and ended up with this in a Southeast corner also! I am not sure how he framed his corners.

[Jason Roehl]

David, since several folks here agreed with my assessment, let me reiterate: you should NOT have fastened the drywall in the corner at all. You should use drywall clips to hold the two pieces together, but no screws/nails within about 12-16" of the corner.

From what you've depicted about how you framed it, that 2x6 nailer is probably curling in the wall cavity like nobody's business due to moisture migration and/or temperature change.

Just because something is a common practice doesn't mean there aren't better techniques available. The link Phil H. posted above is to an article that possibly describes where framing techniques are headed, but they're certainly not common at this point in time.

I don't see anything in this thread that's intended as an insult. There are a lot of cheap, shoddy builders out there, so not knowing who built it up front makes that an easy assumption.

[phil harold]

If it is me, lets figure it out.



* If I put screws in the sheetrock every 10 inches or so to fasten it to the studs, should I have done more? Isn't that enough? Is it common building practice to use more screws?



* If I framed the corner using a common framing practice, should I have done more? I know there are other techniques, but if other builders are using the same technique, why did I have this issue and nobody else?



The both times I had this happen to me were in a Southeast corner of new construction. Maybe a small amount of pull in a Southwest corner showing some stress, but not like the Southeast corner. ALL other corners in the building are holding fine! I know another guy that framed his house and hired out the sheetrock, tape, and mud and ended up with this in a Southeast corner also! I am not sure how he framed his corners.


mellow out
as you pointed out it happens to other people
you have been given solutions to avoid this
you possibly used to many screws
southwest corner? same house style? length of wall? heated by sun? gable roof? scissor trusses? Moisture problem? placement of heat duct? sheetrock adhesive? insulation? thermal break? there are so many variables...
all materials shrink and contract at different amounts that is why you need to isolate the movement between sheetrock and framing
now you need to fix it

caulk a heavy bead smooth the edges & paint
fill crack and use crack be gone
tear out all the rock put sheetrock clips in

it is a small crack, fix and move on

enough said

[phil harold]

"Don't get stuck on stupid."

I like that quote Jason!

[David Larsen]

mellow out I am mellow. I don't get worked up too easily.
as you pointed out it happens to other people My buddy didn't have an answer so I was asking here.
you have been given solutions to avoid this I could avoid future issues like this if I knew exactly what the problem was.
you possibly used to many screws I am not aware of using too many screws as being a problem.
southwest corner? same house style? length of wall? heated by sun? gable roof? scissor trusses? Moisture problem? placement of heat duct? sheetrock adhesive? insulation? thermal break? there are so many variables... All southeast corners. Same style single story. Bedroom corners so the length never exceeded 12 feet. The sun is tough on a south side. Gable roof to the south. Standard roof trusses. No known signs of a moisture problem and there is a vapor barrier behind the sheetrock and housewrap on the outside of the osb. Heatducts in the floor or ceiling. No adhesive of the sheetrock. Fiberglass batt insulation. Vapor barrier.
all materials shrink and contract at different amounts that is why you need to isolate the movement between sheetrock and framing I would think that beefing up the corner would have a more positive effect to keep it in place. A solid wood cabinet or piece of furniture is made to expand and contract. I typical stick frame wall shouldn't.
now you need to fix it

caulk a heavy bead smooth the edges & paint I caulked one of these in the winter and it spit out like a pimple in the summer.
fill crack and use crack be gone I haven't used this, but it looks like a possibility.
tear out all the rock put sheetrock clips in I am aware of these, but don't know anyone personally that has used them.

it is a small crack, fix and move on I intend to fix it, but want to try to avoid its return.

enough said




I did not think it was a difficult question. My plan would be to wait until summer and cut out the damaged tape, add more screws to secure the sheetrock, retape and mud and texture and paint. If the 2 x6 twisted out, maybe it is done moving and will stay in place to keep it in line. Tearing out all the sheetrock really isn't an option (or at least not one that has an easy answer) My plan for the future is to frame my corners different and see if that would help (or at least the south corners).

[hank dekeyser]

You didn't get insulted. You got the best diagnosis we could give without magicvision. Thirty six posts later and you're still insisting "it can't be me" and "it can't be my technique" and "it can't be my supplies".

It's one of those. :)

Yup - it's "one of those" alright. How's that 20 years experience working for you ? If indeed you've been in the trades for 20 years, you certainly don't show it. You need a thicker skin.

If you know so much , then you wouldn't be posing the question here. After 20 years you must have developed a pretty good list of contacts in the trades to pose this problem to. Maybe you did and they told you the same thing we are ?

Dude- bottom line is this SOMETHING MOVED and will continue to move. It's your job to figure out what it is. Somewhere somehow something isnt right. PERIOD - I would guess you'll end up opening the entire corner to find it- Lets just say that you find YOU did make a (gasp) mistake . Will you then apologize to ALL of us for "insulting" you - I didn't think so

I was born and raised in the trades some 40 plus years ago - believe me , you'll know when you've been insulted - are you brand new or what ?

I recommend this thread be closed

[David Larsen]

Yup - it's "one of those" alright. How's that 20 years experience working for you ? If indeed you've been in the trades for 20 years, you certainly don't show it. You need a thicker skin.

If you know so much , then you wouldn't be posing the question here. After 20 years you must have developed a pretty good list of contacts in the trades to pose this problem to. Maybe you did and they told you the same thing we are ?

Dude- bottom line is this SOMETHING MOVED and will continue to move. It's your job to figure out what it is. Somewhere somehow something isnt right. PERIOD - I would guess you'll end up opening the entire corner to find it- Lets just say that you find YOU did make a (gasp) mistake . Will you then apologize to ALL of us for "insulting" you - I didn't think so

I was born and raised in the trades some 40 plus years ago - believe me , you'll know when you've been insulted - are you brand new or what ?

I recommend this thread be closed

I would like to poll the 932 people that have viewed this thread to see if the post was or could be considered an insult. Telling someone that they must be the lowest bid, just threw it up, and or didn't build it right could be viewed as an insult where I come from. I don't treat people that way!

I didn't say I had over 20 years of experience with sheetrock corners that pull out on me. I do this part time, but spend most of my time doing cabinet work and or finish carpentry. The framing technique I used is common practice. Yes, the board probably moved. That could be because it twisted, but doesn't mean I framed it wrong. I cannot admit to a mistake if the board caused the problem. The three stud method is common practice, but maybe I should just stay away from it if it is going to cause me problems. (example: some people frame 24 on center, but that doesn't mean I have to)

I could have asked other trade people, but I thought I could potentially tap 1000 views within a short while and get a quicker answer. I got the views, but still am unclear.

I guess I thought someone would see this and say, "yes, I had that happened to me 3 months ago and it was"

I am not brand new at this! I stretch in a lot of directions! I can confidently perform every task it takes to build a house and have done each and every one of those tasks numerous times. I do all of this part-time as I have an unrelated full time job that pays the bills with benefits of insurance and pension. I have been licensed, bonded, insured, and managed a construction company with employees. Today isn't my first day.

I ran into a problem that I seen on three different houses that repeats itself in a Southeast corner and was looking for a quick answer. One of them I personally framed. The other was framed by someone else and I had nothing to do with it. The last one was layed out by me, but nailed by an assistant.

I am not here to argue a point. I just was looking for a definitive answer.

[hank dekeyser]

Like I said - You need a thicker skin. Where I come from this is just "another day at the office" One would think that if you had this happen on 3 homes in the same corner- that there has to be another builder in the area that has had it happen to as well. If you had included ALL the pertinant information in your original post, you would have come across as a professional builder seeking input. Based on your posts you came across as quite the opposite. Its not anyones fault other than yours for that. If you were local to my area I would guess your day job to be either a paper mill worker or a fireman- we get a lot of that around here.

I have no insight or recommendation other than you need to dig further locally to determine if it is a "local thing" or not ? If you continue in this line of work I would recommend that in the future you pay special attention to the SW corner and overbuild it to prevent future issues. You also didnt mention if it was single or 2 story homes and if a 2 story if it was first , 2nd, or both stories that it happens to.

So you see, being spoonfed information yields poor results. Given enough information upfront would have definately yielded fewer responses, however the responses would have been of better quality- you still need a thicker skin - I was being extremely nice to you - insults and daily ribbing are an everyday way of life on our work-sites and I doubt you would last long on our crew. (our entire crew grew up together so anything goes) just an observation

I still recommend this thread closed and there is no "definitive answer"

[Thom Sturgill]

Yep Scott... Same 2x6 I suggested was cupped back in post #11. I've never seen a corner done David's way.
Its a prefered method now as it allows insulation in the corner.

[Tony Perrone]

What is on the outside of the building is it plywood OSB or somthing else? Also did the assistant have ringshank nails in the gun or smooth (by accident). Or it could be somthing simple as water getting behind the siding causing the problem.

[David Larsen]

Like I said - You need a thicker skin. Where I come from this is just "another day at the office" One would think that if you had this happen on 3 homes in the same corner- that there has to be another builder in the area that has had it happen to as well. If you had included ALL the pertinant information in your original post, you would have come across as a professional builder seeking input. Based on your posts you came across as quite the opposite. Its not anyones fault other than yours for that. If you were local to my area I would guess your day job to be either a paper mill worker or a fireman- we get a lot of that around here.

I have no insight or recommendation other than you need to dig further locally to determine if it is a "local thing" or not ? If you continue in this line of work I would recommend that in the future you pay special attention to the SW corner and overbuild it to prevent future issues. You also didnt mention if it was single or 2 story homes and if a 2 story if it was first , 2nd, or both stories that it happens to.

So you see, being spoonfed information yields poor results. Given enough information upfront would have definately yielded fewer responses, however the responses would have been of better quality- you still need a thicker skin - I was being extremely nice to you - insults and daily ribbing are an everyday way of life on our work-sites and I doubt you would last long on our crew. (our entire crew grew up together so anything goes) just an observation

I still recommend this thread closed and there is no "definitive answer"

I can handle the ribbing. It was a couple of poorly worded responses that caught my attention. Like "throwing it up", and "lowest bid", etc.

I agree that the South side corners should probably get extra attention in the future since it has shown problems.

The structure is single story.

I could have added a lot in the beginning, but I thought someone would have looked at the original post and said "Hey, I saw that before and know exactly what it is". It is a mystery that happened to need further information for you to make an informed decision. I will admit fault on the lack of info.

I can guarantee that I am not a papermill worker or fireman. Without going into further details and giving myself some anonymity I am above that. If filling out a survey, I would be classified as professional (not construction). Anyway, enough about that.

[John Toigo]

If I had to guess - I'd say you have a bad board in that corner. It happens - no matter where you buy your lumber. It may have cracked, split, warped around a knot - whatever. It also may have cracked or split where it's nailed at the top or bottom so one end is floating. Short of opening it up and looking that's my best guess.

[David Larsen]

If I had to guess - I'd say you have a bad board in that corner. It happens - no matter where you buy your lumber. It may have cracked, split, warped around a knot - whatever. It also may have cracked or split where it's nailed at the top or bottom so one end is floating. Short of opening it up and looking that's my best guess.

This could be a possibility, but my confusion is that I have seen this on three different buildings and each of the three corners are SE corners.

In response to an earlier poster, at least two of the structures have OSB on the outside and wrapped with housewrap. The third I am not sure about.

[phil harold]

This could be a possibility, but my confusion is that I have seen this on three different buildings and each of the three corners are SE corners.

There is one other concern I have
You mention this is in Minnesota and you are slab on grade
what is done for frost protection?
normally you have footings that extend below the frost line or engineered insulation extend approximatively 4' from the foundation

frost depth for Minnesota is
Northern counties: 5 feet (1.5 m)
Southern counties: 3.5 feet (1.1 m)

You could easily have the whole building moving on just a thickened slab from one season to the next

[David Larsen]

There is one other concern I have
You mention this is in Minnesota and you are slab on grade
what is done for frost protection?
normally you have footings that extend below the frost line or engineered insulation extend approximatively 4' from the foundation

frost depth for Minnesota is
Northern counties: 5 feet (1.5 m)
Southern counties: 3.5 feet (1.1 m)

You could easily have the whole building moving on just a thickened slab from one season to the next

The monolithic slab is 24 inches around the perimeter with insulation extending vertical and horizontal on the outside. The pic attached shows the general system. I have 2 x 6 walls. Legal and by code. Not my choice, but done per customer's request. I haven't noticed any foundation movement yet.
http://www.neo.ne.gov/home_const/details/jpg/Detail35a.jpg

[phil harold]

The problem I have always had with this method is unless you watched the whole installation process and backfill how do you know that it was done correctly and not disturbed after installation



how do you notice movement?
the surrounding earth will move with it
unless you have a surveyor tools and a know bench mark how do you know that the house has raised or lowered an inch?
Because the surrounding ground will move with the building

for my own knowledge
also how far out is the wing Insulation
thickness and type of foam
what precautions have been take to stop

[David Larsen]

The problem I have always had with this method is unless you watched the whole installation process and backfill how do you know that it was done correctly and not disturbed after installation



how do you notice movement?
the surrounding earth will move with it
unless you have a surveyor tools and a know bench mark how do you know that the house has raised or lowered an inch?
Because the surrounding ground will move with the building

for my own knowledge
also how far out is the wing Insulation
thickness and type of foam
what precautions have been take to stop

The entire structure was 2600 sq. feet. If I remember the foam is R10 and goes down 24 inches and out 24 inches. Out 30 inches around the outside corners. I haven't seen anything that would indicate that the entire structure moved. The ground is sandy and pretty stable. Everything is still plumb and level.

The drywall corners with problems I have seen before are (1) on the main floor of a single story structure with a full block basement below and (2) on the main floor of a single story structure with an insulated concrete form full basement and (3) this one with the monolithic slab. All happen in the SE corner.