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View Full Version : Would you rather be good at math or english?



Scott Shepherd
02-14-2011, 7:47 PM
Following up on the "why can't people write" thread, I've thought about that several times over the last few weeks. I started to think, why would writing be more important than, say, Math? I thought about a ton of jobs that had math, but english didn't really mean so much. Take software programming. You can write an application for the iphone, mostly using math and code, and make a million dollars or more. You can be a carpenter and build houses and buildings and not be able to use "your" or "you're" in the proper context. You can build machines, do woodworking, metalworking, work with stone and many other things.

It made me think- would I rather be good at math or english, and I'd have to pick math. Math has got me a long way in my career. Without it, I wouldn't own a house or have the things I have. However, I can't say English has been such a great provider for my income. It's nice to know, but can it make me money? Pay my mortgage? Put food on my table? So far, not so much for me.

Of course, English is very important, and this thread is done tongue in cheek, but it did make me think about which one I'd rather be good at. Not saying you can only have 1, but if you could be great at one and okay at the other, which would it be and why?

Mike Henderson
02-14-2011, 8:56 PM
I'll take math. Mathematics describes the world. For example, in my field (electrical engineering) math describes how circuits work. So the question is, "Is God a mathematician?"

[That reminds me of a joke. What's the difference between a surgeon and God? Answer: God doesn't think he's a surgeon.]

Mike

David Weaver
02-14-2011, 9:05 PM
I will take "both". You can't really be good at mathematics without being a good reader. I don't mean like calculus, i mean like theoretical mathematics.

I work in a profession that is very mathematically oriented, but each year, clients expect more out of us. The mathematical ability is a given, but the ability to write, communicate and speak to them (the clients) is a little more important every year. The people who can't do both are finding it harder to get a job or keep a job.

Rick Moyer
02-14-2011, 9:19 PM
Kinda like asking "what would you rather do without, arts or science". Just depends on your personality type I suppose. Everybody obviously needs some of both, but most would probably lean one way over another.
To answer your question, though, I would lean toward math, probably because it's always interested me and therefore I became better at it (I think).

Greg Peterson
02-14-2011, 9:47 PM
Math, for it's pure logic. When was the last time a well written paper put a man on the moon?

David G Baker
02-14-2011, 11:53 PM
Mathematics.

Gary Hodgin
02-15-2011, 12:49 AM
Both are important, but I rather be considered better in math.

paul cottingham
02-15-2011, 1:07 AM
English. I'd rather be understood than clever.

daniel lane
02-15-2011, 2:21 AM
Both are very important, but if I had to choose, I'd choose math. Given my choice of hobbies (and even career) I'd rather be a happy hermit than a literate incompetent. :o

Don Alexander
02-15-2011, 3:42 AM
a mathematical genius who can't communicate what he knows wouldn't be worth much ................ though i tend to prefer math to english myself

Caspar Hauser
02-15-2011, 6:07 AM
Math, for it's pure logic. When was the last time a well written paper put a man on the moon?

I seem to remember a couple of well written speeches by a Mr Kennedy which seemed to get the whole thing off the ground.

Glenn Vaughn
02-15-2011, 6:28 AM
The question should probably have been "Math or Language" (as in communication skills).

While english is the language of choice in most of North America, it is not as universal as we would like to believe. Superior math skills will be of little use if you cannot communicate. IMHO there are two ways poor communication skills can handicap you; first, you must be able to communicate in order to pass results to others. The second is that poor communication skills can cause your credibility to be doubted.

I work in the IT field and communication is very important - especially now that many of the suppoort people speak (and write) english as a second language - sometimes so poorly that it is almost impossible to understand what they mean. We had a CIO that was from India - this led to the hiring of a number of people from India - primarily in networking. It took a long time for the staff to be able to understand each other.

MKy previous job was in an IT shop where the Manager was Cantonese and one of the analysts was mandarin. The manager was second generation american the analyst was born in the geogrphic center of China. Even though the analyst spoke fluent english, he could not communicate abstract ideas in english. Most of our meetings were reduced to talking then using paper to draw what was meant. After 15 years there the ability to exchange ideas had not improved very much. The manager had very good communication skills bout had the same problem with the analyst since they each spoke a different form of chinese and neither could speak or understand the others dialect.

Math is very important but so is language. If your language skills are poor it is much more difficult to learn math (or pretty much anything else).

Dan Hintz
02-15-2011, 6:36 AM
Glenn,

I'm sure Steve's mention choice of math or English was not meant to be taken so literally... proper written/oral skills was the obvious intent.



Despite my career, I would have to choose math. If you had a passion and skill for it, you wouldn't need great language skills, as you would have the communication skill necessary to show someone else in the art what you have done step by step.

dennis thompson
02-15-2011, 6:48 AM
I'm retired from a career in Finance. In my career I went from financial analyst, to supervisor, to manager, to director, to vice president. Each of those progressions was a result of strong communication skills (i.e. English) which were far more important than my math skills. I'd choose English/Communication
Dennis

Dan Hintz
02-15-2011, 7:08 AM
Dennis,

Would it be fair to say, however, that you would not have been presented with those advancement opportunities had it not been for some strong math skills that allowed you into the field in the first place?

Bill Edwards(2)
02-15-2011, 7:09 AM
Great! Now you tell me I had a choice.:(

dennis thompson
02-15-2011, 8:11 AM
Dan
The "Math" skills used in Finance are for the most part just basic addition,subtraction, multiplication & division. In completing merger & acquisition analysis we used some fairly sophisticated financial modeling skills, but the models all get back to the basic math skills. I believe my entry into the field was provided by an MBA from a well regarded school & my advancement was due, in large part, to good communication skills (& luck, a most important part of career advancement).(I still like my MBA, even though the newspapers seem to revel in blasting "money hungry MBA's")
Dennis

Prashun Patel
02-15-2011, 9:11 AM
Math for math's sake is too futurama for me.

I'd pick engineering above anything else. This implies a strong understanding of math but more importantly, problem solving. I have an electrical engineering and an MBA. I'd pick the skills I learned as an EE any day of the week over the ones I learned in b-school.

Poverty, saving the earth, energy reduction, peace-in-the-middle-east: all of these can benefit from having bright people who know how to dissect a problem, get to its essence, and build a solution.

Spinning arguments on the news, marketing of yet-another-brand-of-cereal-the-world-just-doesn't-need, fighting in congress: these arenas are filled with people who have great command of language and can be effective communicators, but have nothing to communicate.

Stepping down from soapbox now...

Phil Thien
02-15-2011, 9:19 AM
Anyone that has seen any sci fi movies knows that, in the future, we communicate with other galactic species via mathematical formulas. So without math, we may never be able to talk to the big-headed guys.

Jerome Hanby
02-15-2011, 9:21 AM
Easy, mathematics. To quote RAH, Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house.

Being a writer takes talent, just as does being a mathematician, but you don't have to be a writer to make notes or send correspondence any more than you have to be a mathematician to balance your check book or understand that compound interest is great when it works for you but really compounds your problems when it's working against you.

Brian Kent
02-15-2011, 9:56 AM
Sodfnwi fjnw sdfklngrlwr wfo e fi! nfdvno lllldsff aeii fp. Woof.

Callan Campbell
02-15-2011, 10:16 AM
English of course. That way I can explain how much I suck at Math....................

Eric DeSilva
02-15-2011, 10:22 AM
Y'all would rather be Spock than Kirk?

Darius Ferlas
02-15-2011, 10:47 AM
Dennis,

Would it be fair to say, however, that you would not have been presented with those advancement opportunities had it not been for some strong math skills that allowed you into the field in the first place?

As far as careers go, the really juicy ones, math appears to be completely redundant. Just look at the politicians. It's all about words and a pinch of sweet dreams.

Montgomery Scott
02-15-2011, 11:14 AM
Most of the people in the company I work for will earn $3 to $4 million over a twenty five year career as engineers with good math skills. How much can a person with good English skills earn in the same amount of time?

Chuck Wintle
02-15-2011, 11:36 AM
As far as careers go, the really juicy ones, math appears to be completely redundant. Just look at the politicians. It's all about words and a pinch of sweet dreams.

I have to agree...its all about communication and verbal skills. Without that you are nowhere regardless of any math skills. Plus many complicated ideas have to be expressed in terms that are understood and it's a measure of the quality of english how well it is communicated.

ray hampton
02-15-2011, 11:57 AM
if you do not know your english, how can you read the math. problems ?
both math and England are important

Scott Shepherd
02-15-2011, 12:26 PM
Let me restate this because it's drifted a little. I did not say pick one or the other. I asked if you could be really good at one and just okay the other, which would it be. I also said in the original post that English is very important.

If you could be great at one and okay at the other, which would it be and why?

And Ray, I agree, England is important!

Bill Edwards(2)
02-15-2011, 12:26 PM
Most of the people in the company I work for will earn $3 to $4 million over a twenty five year career as engineers with good math skills. How much can a person with good English skills earn in the same amount of time?

Are you including politics?

Orion Henderson
02-15-2011, 2:30 PM
I am not an engineer by any remote stretch-and other than engineering and small number of high tech fields I think English/communication skills are more important. Having a basic understanding of math is important, but the vast majority of people don't need calculus, geometry, and trigonometry. +-*/ and a basic understanding of how to create formulas (algebra) is all most people need and not that many need the algebra part. I do.

How much income can be earned with the ability to communicate over the mathematical ability? I would bet that far greater numbers of people earn their livings due to their communication skills than their math skills. Every single person who sells for a living for one-and we all sell for a living at some level. Every business owner and manager for two. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs didn't create what they created because of their programming abilities per se-though they did need those abilities-they created their revolutionary businesses because of their ability to sell it. The guys who created Google became very successful in large part because they realized they were not great communicators and hired someone who was. It was their algorithm that created the concept and the business, but it was the CEO who lead the company to be what it is.

Darius Ferlas
02-15-2011, 2:35 PM
Most of the people in the company I work for will earn $3 to $4 million over a twenty five year career as engineers with good math skills. How much can a person with good English skills earn in the same amount of time?
What do the engineers with poor math skill make in your company? More importantly, how come they are considered engineers?

As for the answer... not an easy one... but my estimate is that a person with really good English skills will make about as much as the engineer in your company to about 100(+/-) times as much as the said engineer.

Rick Moyer
02-15-2011, 2:36 PM
Are you including politics?
and acting?

Jerome Hanby
02-15-2011, 2:46 PM
Most of the people in the company I work for will earn $3 to $4 million over a twenty five year career as engineers with good math skills. How much can a person with good English skills earn in the same amount of time?

Depends, what's Mickey Dees paying at the moment?

Mike Henderson
02-15-2011, 2:46 PM
There's an old joke from college. "What do you do with a degree in English?" Answer: "Teach or sell insurance."

You can replace the word "English" with the word "History, Art, or Music" and the answer is the same. And probably some other majors as well.

Everyone should be proficient in their native tongue but that's generally not sufficient. You need to learn some specific technical skill which will allow you to produce something of value to people.

Mike

Ron Jones near Indy
02-15-2011, 2:49 PM
Math, for it's pure logic. When was the last time a well written paper put a man on the moon?

Conversely, when was the last time a man went to the moon without well written procedures to follow? It's a package deal--both are needed to be completely successful at just about everything.

Rick Potter
02-15-2011, 2:53 PM
In my perfect world, I would prefer to be proficient in basic math and language skills, and have a buncha common sense.

Rick Potter

Belinda Barfield
02-15-2011, 3:07 PM
Most of the people in the company I work for will earn $3 to $4 million over a twenty five year career as engineers with good math skills. How much can a person with good English skills earn in the same amount of time?

Ask J. K. Rowling. :D


In my perfect world, I would prefer to be proficient in basic math and language skills, and have a buncha common sense.

Rick Potter

I'm with Rick.

It's a toss up for me. I would love to comprehend the mathematics of fractals. On the other hand, I would love to be able adequately convey my thoughts to others - even if they didn't offer me a penny. :rolleyes:

If I had to choose, I'd choose to have language skills over math skills.

Mike Henderson
02-15-2011, 3:43 PM
One can always point to a successful author, actor, or musician. But the reality is that for every one who's successful, there are thousands who starve pursuing their craft. Living near Hollywood I see it every day - the "actors" living in their cars, "actresses" who turn a few tricks just to get enough to eat, the "screenwriters" who are working on their two hundredth screenplay, none of which has ever seen the light of day, etc., etc.

If you want to live a near normal life (that is, have a steady job with benefits, get married and maybe have kids, maybe even own your own home) get an education from a good university in some technical field, stay sober and off drugs, and don't have a jerk personality. Or be EXCEPTIONALLY lucky and become an actor, or a writer, or some other glamorous profession.

Mike

Belinda Barfield
02-15-2011, 3:51 PM
I agree Mike. Hope everyone realizes that my J.K. Rowling reference was meant in jest.

John Pratt
02-15-2011, 4:54 PM
Math has always been a tough one for me, but I somehow made it through. College Calc. almost killed me. Looking back I am glad I have a good understanding of basic math (mainly basic algebra, geometry, fractions) but I think my language/communication skills afforded me more opportunities in life than my math skills. Sure, the engineer needs math and my brother the New York banker needs it, but it really comes down to what you are interested in. Not every job needs a tremendous amount of math, but they all need good communication skills. Good math skills may get you in the door for those jobs requiring it, but communication skills will do more to help you move up the ladder.

Garrett Ellis
02-15-2011, 5:00 PM
Most of the people in the company I work for will earn $3 to $4 million over a twenty five year career as engineers with good math skills. How much can a person with good English skills earn in the same amount of time?

There are quite a few athletes that suck at both and would consider that chump change! :rolleyes:

Dan Hintz
02-15-2011, 6:03 PM
Conversely, when was the last time a man went to the moon without well written procedures to follow?
Those written procedures are very dry and straightforward... no J. K. Rowling there. You don't even have to make complete sentences when your steps are logical and they are easily understood:
1) Flip switch A1, located on panel C3 (see diagram B2 for panel location).
2) If you are OCD, go to step 1)

Tom Winship
02-15-2011, 6:41 PM
Both, however, math and physics were the basis of my career in engineering. I detested "spinning" the facts as seems to be so prevalent today. Had I been better in English, I possibly would have been a better "spinner" and gone farther. Having been retired for four years, I am perfectly content with where math (primarily) took me.
(Due to my poor English, I hope I got my point across)

Scott Shepherd
02-15-2011, 7:11 PM
I'm guessing comprehension wasn't part of the language some of y'all strive for, since I said pick the one you would favor over the other. One, over the other, means pick one. Both is not one :)

Sorry, I had to do that. No malice meant, just having some fun. With all the lectures about language, I can't get people to follow simple instructions like "pick one" :p:p:p:D

Speaking of that, did you ever get that test in school that said at the top "Before proceeding, read the entire test"? If you follow directions and read the entire test, the last statement on the test says you are done, wait 10 minutes and hand in your test". You look around and see all the people that didn't follow directions feverishly working away, thinking and writing as hard as they can go the entire class, only to get to the last line and realize they really messed up. I always loved that kind of test :)

PICK ONE!!!!

keith ouellette
02-15-2011, 9:42 PM
I'll take math hands down. I used to work with a guy who used improper english all the time. When he had to leave you a note or list at work words were always mis spelled. At least thats what I was told. I never noticed. But if you needed to ad a few collombs of numbers or adding fractions. even if there were 5 or 6 fractional numbers or numbers with decimals. All in his head. He was able to do algebra also. it was pretty amazing. From what I understand he has several patens for things he invented.

But he had to have some one do most of his writing for him and when people at work laughed at him behind his back all the time beacause he would mis spell your name. He long since moved on and is doing way better than any of the people We worked with. Including me. I can't do math either.

Montgomery Scott
02-15-2011, 10:40 PM
What do the engineers with poor math skill make in your company?

They make the seat warm for the engineers with good math skills who will soon replace them.