Which tool is Over Rated???

[Carroll Courtney]

IMO I have two thoughts on which ones I think is over rated(be nice to the Festool people)On the auction site it amazes me how much people will bid on the older Delta Tenoning Jig which goes in the upper 250 plus,I just don't see the romance in that tool other than collectible.Me being a PM fan and having a PM100,I just don't see the blade grinders that attach to the top of the planer,either the 12",16",18" or whatever.They look nice and I'm sure they work but DANG for a complete setup your talking close to 500 bills.So for me,1)Delta Tenon Jig,2) PM Blade Gringer,I just shake my head looking at the bids on these items.What are ya'll thoughts on over rated tools or machines----Carroll

[phil harold]

all the ones I cant afford!

[Jim Watts]

Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

[johnny means]

Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

Haha, being in the Philly area my first thought was Micheal Vick, after a little thought I came up with Andy Reed:D

[George Bregar]

Dale Earnhardt, Jr. Ha ha thanks!

[John Fabre]

All the ones I don't have yet.

[Jim Watts]

Sorry, Carroll - didn't intend to hijack your thread.

Ummm...wide-belt or drum sanders.

[keith micinski]

Michael Vick over rated as a Philly fan REALLY? If you would have said you were from Atlanta ok but what more could you have wanted from him this year. And he only cost 2 mill. I'll get it back on topic. The DW735 in my mind is the most overrated tool and I have a personal vendetta against it.

[Van Huskey]

Umm off the top of my head an original fence for a PM141/143... ;) couldn't help myself.

The tenon jig is a classic example of the romance of the American machine era. I see the table saw tenon jig as a kludge compared to many of the ways to cut tenons with the shaper being first and the bandsaw being second. The TS jig just seems contrived to me. I haven't seen that the older ones are light years better then the current ones, gimme a few minutes with a $80 current version tuning it up and it will cut with an old Delta.

I see equal romance in the knife grinders. As with the fence I mentioned it just makes a machine "complete" but the "modern" way seems better to me. First a Byrd head really makes them obsolete and has lots of advantages though they can be prohibitively expensive for some older planers. I haven't seen grinders in practice produce razor sharp knives either, for me the Deulen system would be my choice instead for significantly less money and you can have shaving razors if you like, would be perfect for your 100.

For me I would throw all upper end machines out there as over rated. I have had the opportunity over the years to use some really amazing tools and they were everyone excellent BUT it was clear the point of diminishing returns was met many thousands of dollars earlier. I have a friend who's cabinet shop got a Felder A741 jointer last year. This piece of equipment is gorgeous and is a dream to use but the Grizzly 16" jointer I used a couple of years ago did just as good of a job, probably better in knarly grain because it has a spiral head but cost half as much. Maybe the Felder will have long term advantages in a commercial shop but in a hobby shop I think it is more pride of ownership than anything else. So I suppose my opinion is a more subjective one than usual in that all the high end tools past MY point of diminishing returns are over-rated, but it doesn't mean I don't covet them!

[Bruce Wrenn]

The in place knife grinders are for production work. I once worked in a plant that had a 60" planer. During morning or afternoon break (less than 15 minutes) techs could do all three knives and be up and running when we came back. We were running laminated beams, some of which were over 120 feet long, by 12" deep and up to five foot wide. Changing out a set of knives would have shut down the entire line for a couple hours. Knife changes occurred on third shift, when production staff wasn't present. My Rockwell 13" (designed to compete with the PM 100) featured both in place grinder, and replacement heads complete with blades. It was quicker to swap out whole head than to replace the blades

[david brum]

Following the same line of reasoning, there seem to be plenty of hand tools which are priced well beyond the point of diminishing returns. For instance, you can get a superb hand plane from several manufacturers for $2-300. You can also get a custom hand plane for $6000. I don't know that anyone really thinks that the $6000 plane actually works better, but they are nonetheless made and sold on a regular basis. Heck, if I had one (assuming I had no higher use for 6k) I'd be afraid to use it anyway.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

BOOM!! goes the dynamite. Pretty doggone clever. Lost my coffee.

[Peter Quinn]

I wasn't aware there was a rating system in place for tools? There are tools which are beyond my price point or from which my perceived utility is less than their cost, but this is highly subjective. I used to think that an Italian bandsaw must be overrated until I got one. Oh, I use one off those older delta tenoning jigs at work. They are heavy by comparison to the current versions but I prefer my green woodcraft special frankly in most cases. But the delta has the sexy factor hands down, looks better on a shelf from every angle!. I guess overrated sounds like disappointment to me, and disappointment is all about expectations. Mine are generally either low or realistic.

[Don Dorn]

Wow - I had no idea on the older Delta tenon jig. I have one and haven't used it in ages - I know what I'm selling!

[Rod Sheridan]

Router, biscuit joiner, cordless electric tools.

As always it depends upon how, and what you work on..............Rod.

[Bill Huber]

Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

Jim I think you misread the post, he stated Tool, not fool.:D

Man I will catch it for that.....

[Alan Wright]

HOw about rulers that show 64th's of an inch. First, I can't see that small, second, I cant' mark that small and 3rd, I can't accurately cut to that accuracy... Digital calipers, on the other hand are a godsend.

[glenn bradley]

HOw about rulers that show 64th's of an inch. First, I can't see that small, second, I cant' mark that small and 3rd, I can't accurately cut to that accuracy... Digital calipers, on the other hand are a godsend.

I think Alan gives a perfect example of "value to the user". A highly accurate Digital caliper has value but a ruler that is too granular is not. Trying to rate something globally as over or under-rated is a conundrum. A positive and a negative review or designation can each be as correct as the other ;-)

My X-Acto knife marks every bit as well as my $20 marking knife which probably marks as well as a $50 marking knife. My $200 plane is probably no better than a $50 e-bay special that is properly restored. In my case the $200 plane is not over rated as it provides me an immediately usable tool and my fettling skills stink at best.

I love seeing the beautiful restorations of older tools that folks do here but, I can guarnatee you would not want to see the result of me trying to do the same thing ;)) A great thread for discussion and a fun topic with no clear answer. Good stuff Maynard.

[John Sanford]

Harbor Freight credit card. :p

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm going to have to disagree with you guys 100% on the knife grinders. I've owned both the insert head planer and the knife grinder, and the on board knife grinder is worth every penny and then some.
Now sure the average hobby guy isn't going to realize it's full potential, but it's far from overrated. I can hone my knives in less than 10 minutes and be back to work. A full re-set and grind takes about 40 minutes including waxing the tables. Granted the little carbide inserts will last longer, but once you do have to rotate all of them on say a 20" planer:confused:
Don't forget about replacing all of them after you've gone through the 4 cutting edges,
that's a whole lot of money right there. Though again, the average weekend warrior will probably never go through all 4 edges, so perspective is important here.
And as for the cut quality there's not as much difference as you might think if you haven't used a planer with grinder on board. They're not quite as tear out free, but they're pretty darned close.
I also think higher end equipment in general is worth the money......if your making money with it! For a hobby shop unless you have a lot of play money probably not worth it. But I've slowly been upgrading to Euro machines and I'll never look back. There really is no comparison. The grey and gold stuff I used to think of as top shelf, has now become entry level. But it's a change that happened only after I needed my equipment to make a living with...different perspective;)

So which tool do I think is overrated.....does a router table count as a tool? I have to say those fancy aftermarket contraptions are the first thing that jumps to my mind.


good luck,
JeffD

[David Prince]

Router, biscuit joiner, cordless electric tools.

As always it depends upon how, and what you work on..............Rod.

I agree with cordless tools. I am not sure if I get the fascination with cordless tools when you can normally find a corded version as less cost. There is a convenience factor, but in this day and age, we have electricity readily available. I can see just needing to drill a quick hole or run out a screw or two, but if you are working on a project, a corded tool doesn't run out of battery.

I would also over-rate something if it can easily be done by another tool. For that reason, I would exclude the router and biscuit jointer. Each of these is difficult to replicate if you are attempting a certain task.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Jim I think you misread the post, he stated Tool, not fool.:D


I think 'tool' works better :)

[Van Huskey]

I really am enjoying the different opinions of people! Jeff makes a key point about perspective regarding hobbyist and professional. When it comes to making and living and keeping a competitive edge the point of diminishing returns moves significantly up the monetary scale. For some reason it made me think of photographers. Many hobby photographers spend huge amounts of money on feature sets they will never use but the professional may pay for that entire upgrade with one use that allows him/her to do a specific task either much quicker or at all. For a hobby woodworker taking 15 minutes to set up a particular cut may be a non-issue but for a pro that has to do it 20 times a week, if he can save 10 minutes each time that is over 3 hours a week which really offsets a LOT of capital investment!

[Wes Grass]

Re cordless tools. Don't own any, and would agree with you except I've recently been working up on a ladder. Cordless is really nice there.

Old carpenter's joke (shortened a bit): Guy getting on airplane with a 100 ft cord over his shoulder ... flight attendant giving him a hard time about it ... guy says 'if this plane goes down I'm jumping out with this. It'll get caught on something'.

As for the Felder AD-741, I looked at the big Grizzly jointer and an equivalent level planer (both helicals). Cost was about the same, or close enough not to matter to me, and the Felder takes up a *lot* less room.

[Joe Kieve]

Biesmeyer fence! Just got one that came on a used Unisaw. Grrrrr....having to rebuild all my jigs, aux fence to fit. Maybe once I get used to it I'll like it. But for now...it's over-rated. Just my 2 cents.

[Bruce Wrenn]

For me the most over rated tool is a saw blade. a Forrest WWII to be exact. I have yet to go into a production shop and see a Forrest WWII being used. Yes, I own a couple. One has never been out of the box, and the other only used once, before I had to send it back to Forrest for rebuilding. I hit a hidden staple that held a SKU tag on. WWII lost five teeth. Over the years, I have probably cut hundred of these staples with other brands of blades and no tooth loss.

[Michael Schneider]

Carroll,


This is a very interesting question. I think think one should look at both ends of the spectrum:

I think it is an individual choice if a tool is overrated, or is the favorite tool in your shop.

My favorite tools to use are the few that I have from my grandfathers shop, closely followed by the tools my father gave me from his shop.

They are good tools, but not the best.

I would not trade any of them for a room full of festool tools :-)


Two tool traits that would cause me to identify a tool in my shop as overrated:
- The tool does not fit my style of working (individual choice)
- I have not been able to master the style of woodworking necessary to effectively use the tool ( individual limitation :-) )


Happy woodworking,
Michael

[John Coloccia]

re: rulers
For the work I do, I routinely hit 1/64" accuracy, and do various parts of my layout with a rule graduated in 1/100s. The standard way of marking that small is to put the edge of an X-Acto blade in the line you want, and pull down to mark the wood.

What I've found is for everyone's useless tool there is someone out there that couldn't function without it!

[Gary Herrmann]

I'd think it would be the tools you own but don't use.

[Jeff Duncan]

For me the most over rated tool is a saw blade. a Forrest WWII to be exact. I have yet to go into a production shop and see a Forrest WWII being used. Yes, I own a couple. One has never been out of the box, and the other only used once, before I had to send it back to Forrest for rebuilding. I hit a hidden staple that held a SKU tag on. WWII lost five teeth. Over the years, I have probably cut hundred of these staples with other brands of blades and no tooth loss.


Seriously??? Man you may want to consider looking at your wood before you cut it. I've gone through literally 10's of thousands of bd. ft. of material and I couldn't tell you the last time I hit a staple by accident.
Personally I'd rather (and do) spend more money on a good quality blade and not hit staples with it. Just my opinion though;)

JeffD

[Dave Lehnert]

For me I have always looked at the high end router tables with lift. I wont say they are useless but for what money they cost you could buy yourself a large tool like a 17/18" bandsaw. My router table I use is 20 years old and not much more than a chunk of MDF with a hole in it.

Biscuit Joiner - Face it, the only reason most of us own one is because Norm used them.

Saw Blades.- Never used a high end blade but never seen the need to use anything else than my $45 Freud.

[bill schmoott]

re: rulers
For the work I do, I routinely hit 1/64" accuracy, and do various parts of my layout with a rule graduated in 1/100s. The standard way of marking that small is to put the edge of an X-Acto blade in the line you want, and pull down to mark the wood.

What I've found is for everyone's useless tool there is someone out there that couldn't function without it!

I am going to have to give JC the big +++1. You can only cut to the accuracy of your measurement. I use 1/64 when possible.

Oh, my vote for the most over rated tool? Random orbital sander. I am beginning to think that the material gets smooth from the hand sanding I perform trying to get out the swirl marks left by the sander, instead of the sander itself. :confused:

[keith micinski]

I would have bet my life that no one would put down cordless tools. And yet multiple people did. Humans are very interesting.

[Chip Lindley]

1) Anything INCRA! I find their stuff overly-contrived. Accuracy to .001" is seldom if EVER needed when cutting wood workpieces. My pet peeve of all time is the incra tablesaw fence system with that central arm that takes up the whole TS extension table. No comparison to the simplicity of Bill Biesemeyer's all-steel T-fence! Just my .02.

2) Anything POWERMATIC! Current, imported Chinese PM stuff is what I am referring to. I am a lover of older, made-in-McMinnville PM machinery, BUT, the premium price charged for mustard-yellow cannot be justified, IMO.

[Cary Falk]

Starrett, Powermatic, Festool, Fein, OWWM, oh and Sawstop.:eek::D Did I miss anybody?

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

Biesmeyer fence, which has already been mentioned. Also worse than 1/64 divisions, 1/100 divisions. Bridge City Tools for the most part. I have a shop full of tools that looked good in theory, but fail to be very useful, or convenient.