Lie Nielsen or Veritas?

[Joe Leigh]

I'm looking to invest in a quality low angle block plane and I'd like some opinions on the pros and cons of these two manufacturers. Any and all opinions are appreciated.

[Steve Rowe]

All pros and no cons to both brands. They are both outstanding, go with either one and be happy.

[John Coloccia]

I've played with the LN and I own the Veritas. The LN is very nice but my opinion is that the Veritas is a bit more refined and just feels better in my hand. That's pretty subjective. Performance wise, there's no difference as far as I can tell.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have not played with the Veritas, but I do own several LN blocks that I use on site. They have been dropped, rained on, and used in ways that would make many here shudder, and they just keep doing their job year in and year out.

I'm sure the Veritas is just as tough, don't know....

[Brian Kent]

Joe, I am just waiting for a woodworking show where I can hold both.

I use the Lie Nielson #102 block plane ($95) , and want to add a full size LN or LV. Both have great reviews. I've tried the LN 60-1/2 in the store and love it.

[Joe Leigh]

I'm assuming that the blades are of equal quality. The specs look identical. I guess it's a matter of how the body feels. The LN is bronze @ $115, and the Veritas cast iron @ $145.

[Ron Conlon]

I'm assuming that the blades are of equal quality. The specs look identical. I guess it's a matter of how the body feels. The LN is bronze @ $115, and the Veritas cast iron @ $145.

I believe the amount you quote for the Veritas is for the adjustable mouth version, whereas the LN version you quote is for non-adjustable mouth. The adjustable-mouth LN is $165. The non-adjustable Veritas (apron plane) is $85.

[Chris Kennedy]

Ahh -- the eternal question: Lie-Nielsen or Veritas? You can't go wrong with either one, and I think these are really a personal decision. Which one feels better to you and works better in your hand? I would order the Veritas, but only because they have a good track record with me. They always seem to feel better a little better in my hand.

Cheers,

Chris

[Brian Kent]

You know, we have become very peaceful about Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley here. Didn't our arguments used to be as good as the SawStop threads?

Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley are both great. They even have the same first names.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

You know, we have become very peaceful about Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley here. Didn't our arguments used to be as good as the SawStop threads?

Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley are both great. They even have the same first names.

Wow. Dragging the SS thread into the debate? LOL. I don't even read tablesaw accident threads anymore.

I am interested in the LN-Veritas though........ It seems so far Veritas gets the nod.

[Bryan Hunt]

I have several Lie-Nielsen planes and love them. I've never tried the Veritas planes, so I can't give you advice on one vs the other. One thing I will point out is that the Lie-Nielsen planes (and almost all of the tools they sell) are made in the USA.

[Ray Newman]

I have Li-Nielson and Veritas planes. Both are well made and it will come down to what fits your hand and comfort level.

[Kevin Womer]

I have a low angle block and the jack plane from LV, I love them both and have no complaints, I hope to add a smoother from LV someday. I don't own any LN and cannot comment on them, but honestly from what I have read about LN and know about LV you can't go wrong with either one.

[Doug Mason]

Depending on your sharpening skills and technique, you should also consider if you want 01 or A2 steel. If you're sharpening skills are poor and you use oilstones--I reccommend 01. I personnaly prefer 01 because it is so much easier to sharpen (subjective opinion-and I use oilstones). LN offers 01--I don't now if LV does.

My personal preference is LN (subjective)

[Peter Pedisich]

I have several Lie-Nielsen planes and love them. I've never tried the Veritas planes, so I can't give you advice on one vs the other. One thing I will point out is that the Lie-Nielsen planes (and almost all of the tools they sell) are made in the USA.

Bryan,
I completely respect your view of the made in USA thing, and I have been putting my money where my mouth is over the past 3 years. I only buy US made Jeans (Diamond Gusset!), shoes, tools, beer...you know - the important things. It almost always costs me more for my time for the research and the goods. I have also been selling and/or exchanging my tools for ones made here...which is easier to do since I'm switching over to hand tools.

But I consider Canadians my brothers, and I made the decision to not make a distinction between our two countries when it comes to my money. They, after all, very often have no choice but to buy US made goods. The fact that they produce some of the best tools, at a fair price, makes it an easy decision.

Please don't think I'm trying to disagree with you, I'm not - the opposite actually, just wanted to give my support to Canada, eh.

Pete

[Joel Goodman]

They both make non adjustable smaller block planes -- the LN 102 and the LV apron and larger adjustable mouth planes. The adjustable mouth LN 60 1/2 is smaller and handier than the LV version. So it depends on whether you want a slightly larger block plane: the LV; or a little smaller: the LN. I have the LN 60 1/2 and it is superb. Although it is small is is quite a bit heavier than a Stanley. LV also has some new designs of block planes that are pricey and unusual looking. Another difference is that the LV have a Norris adjuster which controls the lateral and depth -- the LN blocks have a depth adjuster and you simply move the blade by hand for the lateral adjustment. I would see what you feel fits your hand best. Both are fine companies who will stand behind their products. LN has free events where you can try their products and get advise -- look on their website to see if there is one coming to your area.

[Brian Kent]

Bryan,

… I consider Canadians my brothers, and I made the decision to not make a distinction between our two countries when it comes to my money.
Pete

I also hold the citizens of our northern province in high regard. :D

(As well as those of the little island of Australia!)

[Van Huskey]

I think the simple answer to the question is: "yes".

[Jon McElwain]

A couple more things for you to consider, and these are subjective observations on my part: From what I have seen of Veritas over the last 10 years that I have been paying attention, it appears that they are in the business of looking back at old tools and styles of tools and sort of redesigning them. Veritas tools definitely have a modern look and feel to them. In addition, they strive to maintain high quality tools that will function well and last for generations. Lie Nielson also maintains a very high quality standard and they too build tools that will last generations. However, instead of looking to redesign old tools, they seem to attempt to replicate them with a classic look and feel while using modern quality standards, materials and manufacturing.

Basically, Veritas (in my opinion) takes a fresh look at tools and makes them their own, while Lie Nielson is in the business of building new classic tools. Has anyone else made the same observations?

[Van Huskey]

A couple more things for you to consider, and these are subjective observations on my part: From what I have seen of Veritas over the last 10 years that I have been paying attention, it appears that they are in the business of looking back at old tools and styles of tools and sort of redesigning them. Veritas tools definitely have a modern look and feel to them. In addition, they strive to maintain high quality tools that will function well and last for generations. Lie Nielson also maintains a very high quality standard and they too build tools that will last generations. However, instead of looking to redesign old tools, they seem to attempt to replicate them with a classic look and feel while using modern quality standards, materials and manufacturing.

Basically, Veritas (in my opinion) takes a fresh look at tools and makes them their own, while Lie Nielson is in the business of building new classic tools. Has anyone else made the same observations?

Though nobody would ever mistake me for a neander from the outside looking in (witha view toward buying some good planes) I think you are spot on.

[John Sanford]

Clearly, you need a Veritas NX60.

BLING!!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Joe - this question is too easy. I'm surprised no one gave you the correct answer yet:

Get the LV LA adj mouth block, and also get the LN LA rabbet block w/nicker.

BTW - there is no handrail on this long, slippery slope you've just started down. See you at the bottom of the hill.

[Joe Leigh]

Clearly, you need a Veritas NX60.

BLING!!

That is one sexy plane....did I just say that???

[glenn bradley]

Back to the OP's question. My answer is that both are very nice tools. The one that you prefer will be up to you. I was lucky enough to visit a woodworking show back when LN still participated in the left coast shows. Being able to go back and forth between the two booths (conveniently located near each other) allowed me to spend plenty of time with each (read "I was a pain for longer than any vendor should be expected to put up with me").

I went with the Veritas LA block and medium shoulder plane on that run. It is unfortunately a matter of how the things feel in your hand, not mine or anyone else's. The LN and LV block planes were about equal in feel for me. The Veritas medium shoulder just fell into my hand while the LN format felt awkward, to me. Since I was sold on the LV shoulder and the blocks were equal I went with LV on both. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary ;-)

How's that for being firmly planted in mid-air?

[Joel Shappell]

Not to confuse the issue, but have you considered the new V3 Woodriver planes? IMHO, Lie-Nielson are superior planes to the Veritas. With woodriver somewhere in between on quality. But when you consider the price, Woodriver can't be beat.

[Jeff Monson]

LN adjustable mouth block plane, it is the most used and versatile plane I own. Usable right out of the box. I'm by far no sharpening expert but it is easy for me to sharpen also.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

But I consider Canadians my brothers, and I made the decision to not make a distinction between our two countries when it comes to my money.
...

Please don't think I'm trying to disagree with you


What, you are disagreeing with me.... :D

Was trying to decide which rabbet skew plane with a fence that I should buy.... I have an order in with the valley right now. Would save on shipping if I had decided in their favor sooner (but I am still on the fence).

I spoke with a local expert (he was one of the teachers at the 2010 Woodworking in America Conference) who has used many different brands. He stated that for one of the planes he did not like the way that Lee Valley felt in his hands because the front tote was too low to his liking (or something to that effect). My only point is that how a tool feels in your hands is highly personal. In either case, the quality should be great.

Now if only I could decide which I will order (want to use them cut a small rabbets when I create drawers by hand (hand-cut-dovetails, yeah, trying my first one, and I see how the small rabbet will help).

If you can get your hands on both, feel them then try to not buy both.

[Ray DuBose]

I have a Lie-Nielsen Adjustable Mouth Block Plane and Love it. The Body is Ductile-Iron the Cap is Bronze. Friend of mine has the Veritas Equivlant and loves his too. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[Ron Kellison]

I have the LV Low Angle Block plane and the LV medium shoulder plane and I'm very fond of both. That said, if your initial objective is to cut small rabbets for dovetails I don't think you would go wrong with the shoulder plane. It fits my hand beautifully, it's balanced and if you run it against a guide it will cut extremely accurate rabbets. I'm having trouble getting my head around how you would cut a rabbet with a block plane as the edge of the blade is inside the body of the plane rather than out at the edge like it is on a shoulder plane. However, it's been a LONG day and I may simply be missing something obvious.

Regards,

Ron

[Chris Tsutsui]

Call me crazy but I have Lie Nielsen block plane and shoulder planes instead of Veritas mostly because of looks. Well I do have some veritas tools like scrapers and honing guide, but no planes. If you compare them both, it just seems like the Lie Nielsen is an heirloom quality hand tool that has a traditional design with a classy appearance.

Veritas seems like they try to improve upon classical designs with the mechanics or add some styling to it. Besides sharpness, the sexiest tool in the shed gets the most use. :)

Here's a pic of my LN low angle block plane. Also a picture of it taken apart.

Sorry for the saw dust...

193575

193576

[Brian Kent]

Joel, what is your experience with V3 Wood River planes. I had not heard about the V3 line until your post. Have you gotten to try all 3 (Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, V3 Wood River)?

Brian

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have the LV Low Angle Block plane and the LV medium shoulder plane and I'm very fond of both. That said, if your initial objective is to cut small rabbets for dovetails I don't think you would go wrong with the shoulder plane. It fits my hand beautifully, it's balanced and if you run it against a guide it will cut extremely accurate rabbets. I'm having trouble getting my head around how you would cut a rabbet with a block plane as the edge of the blade is inside the body of the plane rather than out at the edge like it is on a shoulder plane. However, it's been a LONG day and I may simply be missing something obvious.
Certainly a normal block plane would not do it. From Lie Nielsen, there is this skew block plane
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=140

From Lee Valley, there is this skew rabbett plane.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=51&p=59999

[Jim Neeley]

LV also offers O1 as well as A2..

[Trevor Walsh]

I love my Veritas Apron plane, it's a handy small size like the #102 bigger mouth though so take that into account. The adjustment's are super nice. and the price is great too.

[Jim R Edwards]

I own a LN 60 1/2R and a LV apron plane and I like them both but if I had to choose one it would be the LN. Not because it is better but because it is more useful. In my opinion the LN 60 1/2R is the most useful block plane made and this is coming from a LV fan!

[Charles McKinley]

BTW - there is no handrail on this long, slippery slope you've just started down. See you at the bottom of the hill.[/QUOTE]

THERE IS A BOTTOM???????????

[Derek Cohen]

I did complete a comparison of these ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane_html_67db55fa.jpg

Article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Martino]

LV and LN make several sizes and types of block planes, not sure if you've narrowed it down or are just starting out in your quest.

Lie-Nielsen makes a small plane in both standard and low angle config, it's the one selling for around $115 now (based on old Stanley models 102/103). I have the bronze low angle, first plane I got and it's a gem. Bulletproof, simple, fits nicely in one hand, works like a charm. No adjustable mouth for finer/smoothing finesse but hasn't hurt it in my use.

LN also makes a larger std/low-angle block based on Stanley classics with an adjustable mouth. Last I checked they were around $165. Solid adjustment, excellent plane and maybe a bit more versatile than the smaller one, with enough mass to do more serious work and the adjustable mouth.

That's without getting into rabbets, model maker's and other specialty planes... oh my!

Lee Valley also makes a smaller, apron sized block as several posters have noted. In addition, they've had a standard/low angle block for years (around $145) that is similar to the LN version but a different size with a different feel -- it's a bit bigger and has a very different feel in the hand. (Might be based on a different Stanley original? I get confused by the Stanley block plane numbers...) Also has an adjustable mouth, and a Norris style blade adjuster - precisely made like all Veritas tools, some prefer them some don't. I don't have enough experience with it to know, but wonder about having lateral adjustment on the same control as blade advancement.

Then to make things even more interesting, in the last few years Veritas introduced its "premium" line of block planes -- the swoopy, aerodynamic looking ones. Adjustable mouth of course, std and low angles of course, they look a bit smaller and one-hand friendly (closer to the LN block?). They are machined to even more ridiculously fine standards than the others available and look to be exquisite tools, although some like the strong styling and others not. Comes in iron $185 and a new, corrosion-resistant nickel version (looks like stainless steel) for $295. These look like really nice tools, I haven't had a chance to handle them but possibly someone who has will weigh in.

As others have said both planemakers make outstanding products and have superior customer service. Lee Valley has developed a reputation for technical innovation and really paying attention to functional details even where it departs from "classic" plane designs. Lie-Nielsen makes extremely solid, beautifully machined (better than the originals, and in better materials) classics, often improving the designs in evolutionary ways. You have options, and none of them are bad planes. The advice to try to check them out in person, see how they feel to you or what your preferences are is good. Personally over time I lean more toward the Lie-Nielsen planes for their solidity and simplicity, but in some areas Lee Valley excels (their joinery planes, and the low angle jack is on my shortlist...).

Enjoy the hunt, hope this helps.

[Niels Cosman]

Not to confuse the issue, but have you considered the new V3 Woodriver planes? IMHO, Lie-Nielson are superior planes to the Veritas. With woodriver somewhere in between on quality. But when you consider the price, Woodriver can't be beat.
Hi Joel,
Welcome to the Creek!
Not to confuse the issue further, You wouldn't happen to have an affiliation with Woodcraft or Woodriver? I only ask because I have been noticing a trend of new users in other forums, pitching in glowing praise of WR products and then disappearing. I hope that's not what's happening here. If I am mistaken, please accept my apologies in advance, I should probably be off to bed.
Cheers,
Niels

[John Coloccia]

Not to confuse the issue, but have you considered the new V3 Woodriver planes? IMHO, Lie-Nielson are superior planes to the Veritas. With woodriver somewhere in between on quality. But when you consider the price, Woodriver can't be beat.

I have to disagree with this. I've praised the Woodriver planes as being very good for the price, but there is no way they are in between Lie-Nielson and Veritas. There is nothing in the Woodriver line that is as nice as any of the Veritas planes, and it's difficult to argue that Lie-Nielson are superior to Veritas. In fact, I happen to think that the Veritas block planes are actually a bit nicer than LN's.

Again, nothing against the Woodriver line. It's everything a plane should be...this is what the new Stanley Sweethearts hope to grow up to be someday. Still, Veritas and LN blow it away.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion on it.


edit: And in the interest of full disclosure, I DO work for Woodcraft. I started working there a few hours a week to get out of the shop and have human interaction. I was starting to go a little looney spending all day by myself! I don't know how my wife does it...I even drive myself nuts.

[Chris Fournier]

When it comes to block planes I don't think that you'll miss out going one way or the other with these two manufacturers. The LN block rabbet is likely the most useful block plane that you could own. The LN 102 is a perfect fit in the hand for me and it would be the last plane that I gave up - cold dead hands stuff.

I personally bought most of these planes before LV had offerings. I like the look of LN more than LV. I don't like a lot of the unecessary CNC driven features on the LV planes - needless and takes away from the tool in my opinion. I go with LN but as you have just read my decisions are half "rational" and half emotional.

Now if we're talking bench planes I just can't get past the grisly aesthetics and clunky feel in the hand of the LV line up.

The LV router plan strikes a balance for me and its the one LV plane that I own and I have no regrets about choosing this model from LV.

Your ability to sharpen your planes will have much more bearing on the usefulness of your block plane than the LN or LV manufacture does!

[Eddie Darby]

I own 4 low angle block planes from both LV and LN ( don't have the NX series ), and can honestly say that I don't have a favorite.

If you are just going to buy 1 block plane only, then I would go with the LV model just because it has other options and steel blade choices.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41715&cat=1,41182

I would use O1 for all the low angle end-grain work, and for anything requiring a bevel angle above 30 degrees, then A2 would be my choice.

If you get a chance to lay hands on them before buying, then do so. Planing is a very tactile experience. I think it would be hard to not like any of these though.

[Jim Koepke]

Not to confuse the issue, but have you considered the new V3 Woodriver planes? IMHO, Lie-Nielson are superior planes to the Veritas. With woodriver somewhere in between on quality.

Joel,
Welcome to the creek. Your profile does not show your location. If you are near to me, I would like to test drive a V3. It could make a believer out of me.

From what I have read, the V3 may be a good product for the money, but still is not the great out of box experience of the LV or the LN. Others have stated with a little work, they work very well.

Along with John, I would have to go along with the idea that the superiority of LN or LV has more than a few caveats. I do not think either Rob Lee or Thom Lie-Nielsen make such a claim. The only thing I recall hearing from either of them is that they are different.

I do believe that for many of us it comes down to how an item feels in our hands our how they look in our shop.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Back to the OP's question. My answer is that both are very nice tools. The one that you prefer will be up to you. I was lucky enough to visit a woodworking show back when LN still participated in the left coast shows. Being able to go back and forth between the two booths (conveniently located near each other) allowed me to spend plenty of time with each (read "I was a pain for longer than any vendor should be expected to put up with me").

I went with the Veritas LA block and medium shoulder plane on that run. It is unfortunately a matter of how the things feel in your hand, not mine or anyone else's. The LN and LV block planes were about equal in feel for me. The Veritas medium shoulder just fell into my hand...

OH NO! Don't tell me it was you that drove them away. :eek::D

Glenn makes a very important point here. Trying before buying is the best way to determine which of these tools will be best. The plane that feels like it belongs in your hand is going to be the right one.

And I am pulling Glenn's chain a bit. The folks at both LN and LV are happy to have someone trying everything. It is as if with both companies it is more important that the customer be happy even if the customer ends up being the other company's customer for a particular purchase.

Just a funny little aside… The block plane in my shop that fits best in my hand is an old #102 that I bought at The Restore" for $2.56.

It doesn't do end grain as well as my LA blocks. But if I ever want to buy another new plane, it may be the LA version of the #102.

jtk

[jamie shard]

So... has the original poster bought a block plane yet? :D

[Tony Shea]

Not that it's needed but I gotta throw my choice in.... LN 60 1/2 hands down. Just an incredible plane that feels as nice as it functions. I also own the 60 1/2R and feel this plane is just as nice especially for cleaning rabbets and tenon cheeks. The R is a bit more finiky to adjust the lateral of the blade but once set is not much of an issue until you sharpen. The R is a bit more versatile though. I use both daily and think the post about the person not liking a block plane is def missing something.

[Danny Burns]

Glenn makes a very important point here. Trying before buying is the best way to determine which of these tools will be best. The plane that feels like it belongs in your hand is going to be the right one.
Just a funny little aside… The block plane in my shop that fits best in my hand is an old #102 that I bought at The Restore" for $2.56.
jtk

I agree that if you get a chance to try the plane first, do so.
I like the LV low angle block plane, but find the LV standard angle block plane to be a wee bit too big for my medium cadet sized hands. So if I want to have a high angle cut, then I use the LA plane with a steeper beveled blade in it.

[Rob Lee]

Joe -

You have a lot of good advice in here... I'll toss in my 2 cents...

Firstly - you can't go wrong with either choice. There are differences between the two LABP's - and one will feel better to you. Ours is wider - so people with smaller hands will prefer the narrower LN version. Ours has a vertical tote option that let's you use it as a small bevel-up plane... which is a feature I really like. They really aren't the same planes at all.

Having said that - my favorite is the apron plane (ours or LN's). To me - it's just "right-sized" for single handed use. I use that plane far more than the LABP... (which isn't saying a lot, with the amount of shop time I get).

I would avoid the standard angle block planes (everyones!) - we make 'em primarily because people ask for them, and schools often specify them.

So much of what to buy depends on what you do too, and what other tools you have...

Cheers -

Rob

[Prashun Patel]

I'll throw in my 2c humbly in the wake of the advice you've gotten:

I own the LN102 and the LV Apron. I like both. One 'downside' of the Veritas if you use an eclipse style honing guide, the top of the blade is tapered, which means the sides of the guide can't clamp properly. It's not an issue if you use a Worksharp and don't mind sharpening via the underside port. If you prefer sharpening with a honing guide, though, get one that'll handle the blade.

In fact, I've since switched to the Veritas MKII honing guide which solved the problem (among others).

One other pc of advice: if you ever considered getting into the world of rehabbing old planes, then a Stanley 60 1/2 is a great place to start. They're ubiquitous in the used mkt, and you can make a great 'user' for probably half the price of a new LV or LN.

It's been my experience that the low angle 102's/apron-sized blocks are harder to come by, used. So, if you wanted both and wish to optimize yr $$, you might buy the latter new from LV/LN, and buy the former used from the 'bay.

[Jim Koepke]

Joe -

You have a lot of good advice in here... I'll toss in my 2 cents...

[snip]

I would avoid the standard angle block planes (everyones!) - we make 'em primarily because people ask for them, and schools often specify them.


Cheers -

Rob

I never enjoyed a standard angle block plane until an old, cheap and beat up #102 came along.

There have been a few very good standard angle block planes pass through my shop. Only the #102 has stayed. To me, most standard angle block planes are just bench planes without handles.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

...

One other pc of advice: if you ever considered getting into the world of rehabbing old planes, then a Stanley 60 1/2 is a great place to start. They're ubiquitous in the used mkt, and you can make a great 'user' for probably half the price of a new LV or LN.

...


If you are going to go the used route, you may want to limit your choice to one made before WW II.

My thread on rehabbing block planes may be of interest.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?123401-Fettle-to-the-Metal-With-LA-Blocks&p=1246005

There is a little bit of information on the blade bedding area at the mouth.

To the best of my knowledge both the LV and LN planes have a larger bedding area at the mouth.

From my limited understanding of physics and resonance, having a larger bedding area will result in a more solid feel and less blade chatter. In a move toward economy, this area was reduced on Stanley planes to lessen the machining needed when making block planes.

In my shop, there are six block planes. Three of them are of the #60/60-1/2 size. One of those is the LN #60-1/2. I have considered selling the Stanley models. I would not consider selling the LN unless for some reason I could not longer use it and no one in my family wanted to take it.

I imagine my feelings would be the same with an LV equivalent. I took a very serious look at the DX60. I was afraid it would make my wife jealous.

jtk

[Jim Neeley]

LMAO, Jim... Nonsense... It'll go perfectly with the new gold-and-diamond jewelry you (didn't know you'd) bought her!!! :D :D

[Joe Leigh]

Well I thought I would post a follow up on this thread. I received a LN 102 for Fathers Day and it has totally transformed the way I feel about hand planes. In a word, amazing. Right out of the box it cut better than any plane I have ever touched, but I wanted to do this plane justice. I had a couple of waterstones I purchased years back when I thought I could hone my own chisels and maybe some cheap stanley hand planes someone had given me. I lost interest quickly after some disappointing results.
So after much internet research and countless Rob Cosman videos I picked up a DMT duosharp 4 x 10 coarse plate and a Veritas MarkII guide to flatten my King 1200 and 8000 stones. A whole new world. After a proper honing that little block plane was singing sweetly....endless lengths of translucent wispy shavings. I am hooked. I can't put this little block plane down. I find myself constantly reaching for it to tweak a joint fit or polish a freshly ripped edge, and the quality of the surface left behind is so incredible that the thought of taking sandpaper to it would be an insult.
So I'm sold. I'm already planing my next LN purchase, probably a #4 Smoother followed by a #6 or #7 a few months after that to flatten the top of a Benchcrafted Shaker Bench that I am currently building.
To summarize, I couldn't be happier or more impressed with this plane. Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions!

[Joel Goodman]

Welcome to the slope!

[Bill Moser]

Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley are both great. They even have the same first names.

And the OP's last name is ... Leigh ... something very fishy going on here :D

But seriously, for a straight-up block plane, it's hard to beat the LN 60 1/2. The 60 1/2R is also great for tenon cheeks, as someone else mentioned. I also have a LN bronze skew rabbet, and the LV left-hand version. Both are great for end-grain and tenons. I have an LN 102 as well, and 'm with Rob here -- it doesn't get much use.

From an aesthetic point of view, I mostly prefer the LNs. Lie-Nielsen's philosophy seems to be: take a known, solid design, and reproduce it while finding ways to subtly improve it. I also really appreciate Lee Valley's innovative approach to tool design. I'm finding the set screws for side-to-side blade adjustment to be really useful, for example.

[Bob Warfield]

Joe -

You have a lot of good advice in here... I'll toss in my 2 cents...

Firstly - you can't go wrong with either choice. There are differences between the two LABP's - and one will feel better to you. Ours is wider - so people with smaller hands will prefer the narrower LN version.
Having said that - my favorite is the apron plane (ours or LN's).

I would avoid the standard angle block planes (everyones!)
Cheers -

Rob

The more I read these forums the more I am impressed with this company. Mr. Lee shows real class almost every time he posts something.

Thank You,
Bob Warfield

[Don Dorn]

While not a block plane issue, I recently found the need and asked advise about large shoulder planes of which I am essentially unfamiliar. I already knew both companies were comparible in quality and have product from both. The responses confirmed both were equal in quality but most nudged me to the LV for the modern ergonomics. As a result of that advise, I ordered a Large Veritas just a few minutes ago. This is a great forum with tremendous knowledge. I also like Lee Valley as a company and appreciate Mr. Lee's presence here.

[Trevor Walsh]

I have a Veritas apron plane, It was cheaper, and has flat sides for small shooting chores. However the bronze LN 102 is damned sexy. I have heard that bronze needs to be kept cleaner, otherwise a greenish tinge may be spread on the work. I wound up getting the LV because I was ordering a few other things from them at the time. Other than that, complete toss up.

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I can't resist throwing in my 2c's as well. Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with any brand or store and I'm not even that good at WW'ing! But, I do love it, love buying tools and enjoy participating in this forum. I have (happily) given Mr. Lee alot of my $$ in exchange for his products - including block, BU series, shoulder, router and other planes. Likewise, though less so, I've parted w/ duckets for a few LN planes as well. All are excellent, excellent tools. I have a LV low-angle block and think it outstanding (to answer op's Q).However, the reason I respond is in regard to a few comments about WR V3. While I don't own a block, I did order one of their #3's (the only size beside 1 & 2 not in my arsenal), just for the fun of it and to see how it compared from a quality standpoint. Unlike the apparent experience of a few others, what I found was that the V3 was VERY close in quality to both LN & my beloved LV. The sole is dead-flat, the sides a perfect 90 and the knob and tote are quite outstanding. It did take me a bit longer to flatten the back of the blade, but not inordinately so. The blade adjustment mechanisms were not "machinist perfect" like LV, but do operate very smoothly with little or no backlash.In short, if it were not for my long-standing loyalty to LV because they've treated me outstandingly well over the years (not insinuating that the others haven't!), I wouldn't hesitate to buy a block or any of their WC's other plane offerings.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I just received my LV standard block plane and last night put it up against my LN block. I'd have to say the LV is overall superior. Blade adjustment is so much easier, both from the standpoint of depth and skew. I had to fiddle with the LN for five minutes before I could get a perfect .002 shaving whereas with the LV it only took one attempt. The blade adjustment is extremely fine and accurate. First I used it to clean up the planer marks on a piece of cherry; smoothed it out perfectly in no time. Next I tried it on waterfall bubinga, a hideously difficult wood. While I cant say it handled it with ease, I was able to smooth it out quickly by going cross grain. then taking the lightest possible cut with grain. With the LN I could not easily get a sufficiently fine blade depth to do this owing to the 2/3rd turn of slack in the adjuster, whereas with the LV it is less than 1/4 turn. This is a superb tool and the one I will reach for most often.

[Ed Looney]

I own tools from both companies and love the quality of both brands. However there is one obvious difference between the companies. That difference is delivering the product to the customer as quickly as possible once ordered. LV in Canada gets the product to me in South Carolina faster than LN in Maine can deliver them. I have never had an item delayed by a back order from LV but unfortunately it seems to be the standard delay for most all of my LN orders. Don't get me wrong I like the LN tools and will order from them again. However if LV and LN both sell similar items I will use LV because they have proven they can deliver on time. My new LV Scrub Plane should arrive today and I am looking forward to putting it to use.

Ed

[Jerome Hanby]

I may be totally off base, but just based on LN pulling out of the WC stores citing the high demand and subsequent backlogs as the reason makes me think that LV is more about tooling up to meet demand. It must be a tremendous amount of work to get production levels up and still keep their stellar quality. Seems like that would take a lot of the fun out of it but Rob Lee still seems to be a jolly fellow.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a travelling tool kit that I take along to woods shows or workshops when demonstrating joint making, such as dovetails. The aim is to lug along as few tools as possible (This would make a good topic for its own thread!).

When it comes to the handplane, the one that goes with me is the LV LA Blockplane along with the knob/tote kit. This is an incredible Swiss Army Knife. The knob/tote transforms the ugly duckling into a graceful swan. Add a 33 degree bevel, and the resulting common angle (45 degrees) is good for all things, end grain and face grain. Or, take two blades, one at 25 degrees for shooting (it has a little extra mass and width for this task), endgrain and cross grain, and a second blade at 40 degrees (cambered for a 52 degree included angle), and you good for most smoothing tasks. And all in one tiny package.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/Woodworking/Planes/05p2217s1.jpg


What other block plane can boast this range?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John A. Callaway]

I own tools from both companies and love the quality of both brands. However there is one obvious difference between the companies. That difference is delivering the product to the customer as quickly as possible once ordered. LV in Canada gets the product to me in South Carolina faster than LN in Maine can deliver them. I have never had an item delayed by a back order from LV but unfortunately it seems to be the standard delay for most all of my LN orders. Don't get me wrong I like the LN tools and will order from them again. However if LV and LN both sell similar items I will use LV because they have proven they can deliver on time. My new LV Scrub Plane should arrive today and I am looking forward to putting it to use.

Ed

I figured out a solution to this. Order from Craftsman Studio. No tax, free shipping, and they seem to process and ship faster than LN does. Though, they don't carry every little thing on the LN website.

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Order from Craftsman Studio. No tax, ...

I agree with you John. Craftsman Studio and its owner are great. I've ordered many things from them/him as well. However, for those of us crazy enough to stay in CA, there is tax ... CS is a "brick n' mortar" store located in beautiful San Diego.

[Eugenio Musto]

I have the LV DX60 and it is a wonderful plane, very good machined and with a dead on straight sole.I'm thinking to buy also the LV low angle block plane because,as Derek says, it's a versatile tool and i like the brass knobs and wheels.I strongly suggest the LV also because their customer service is amazing.LN is a great company too and i think you wouldn't be disappointed.
Take a look also to the new LV Small Bevel Up Smooth Plane: it would be interesting to review this plane and test it like a small smoother but also like a big block plane, thanks to the short sole, the lightness of the plane, the square sides to the sole,the 12° bed angle and the thumb recess on the sides of the body.

[John A. Callaway]

yep, and in your case, keep an eye on highland in Atlanta. they offer free shipping every once in a while...

[Andrew Teich]

Just saw Lee Valley has a free shipping promotion, time to dig out that list!

[Charles Goodnight]

Just saw Lee Valley has a free shipping promotion, time to dig out that list!

Dang. They always get me with that. . . Now, my opinion. The first really good planes I bought were Lie Nielsens, I love them, and all things being equal I will continue to buy those. That said, I think that the Lee Valleys have some very cool and innovative planes, and when I get around to getting a decent shoulder plane it will definitely be a Lee Valley, and man does that small plow plane look cool.

[john davey]

Just saw Lee Valley has a free shipping promotion, time to dig out that list!

Dang nammit. I just made a $200 order this morning!!!. 14 bucks in shipping I could have saved....

[Harvey Pascoe]

I have to agree with Derek. I just got the LV standard block with just the front ball and extra blades. This little tool is a marvel of versatility. I just love the depth adjuster with only 1/8th turn of back lash. There is no other plane which I can easily set the blade to take a .002 shaving in a matter of seconds. I can use this one for smoothing where I used to have to bust my fingers with a scraper on difficult wood.

As for hand size, I have very small hands, can't even pick up a football! Even so, I don't find the size of this plane to be an issue, but the heft of it sure is. I also have the LN 102 which is very small - its fine for very small work but pushing this tiny thing can be tough in hard wood. One's preference is really a matter of what you do and how you use it.

Rob Lee said "avoid the standard block" but he didn't say why. I suppose that if all you do is shoot end grain, that is good advice, but I have had 50 degree blades and I don't like them - too difficult to sharpen, much preferring the 38 degree blade in the standard angle for working difficult wood. For me, this combination is perfect.

[Derek Cohen]

Rob Lee said "avoid the standard block" but he didn't say why. I suppose that if all you do is shoot end grain, that is good advice, but I have had 50 degree blades and I don't like them - too difficult to sharpen, much preferring the 38 degree blade in the standard angle for working difficult wood. For me, this combination is perfect.

The usual recommendation for a block plane is to get a low angle type (12 degree bed) over a standard angle type (20 degree bed). The argument for this is that a low (included) cutting angle, typically 37 degrees, is the better choice for planing end grain. Further, it is always possible to increase the included angle of a Low Angle block plane, but one cannot decrease the included angle of the Standard Angle block plane.

I have told this story before, so if you recognise it, have another drink while I tell it to those for whom it is new ...

About 10 years ago I was in the market for a new low angle block plane. The choice for me was a new Stanley #60 1/2 (Made in England) or a new LN #102. This was not a difficult decision. I had hankered after the little LN for some time. Anyway, it was Friday, end-of-work, and pouring with rain. I was so keen to get to the store to have the #102 for the weekend that I braved the evening traffic and made it just in the nick of time before closing. They only had the one in the display window, and I grabbed it and headed home.

The first shavings with the #102 were pure magic. And the plane never failed to delight me thereafter. Edges, end grain .. perfect. I marvelled at what a plane with a low cutting angle could do on end grain.

Time went on and I ended up buying a LN 60 1/2. My other block plane at the time was a Stanley #65. It was a terrific performer but it felt too large in my hand. The #65 is about the same width as the LV LABP, which is why I did not consider this at the time. The #60 1/2 is a narrower plane. So there I sat in the livingroom with my three block planes on the coffee table, admiring them (which is what we all do, don't we? :)) ... and then I noticed that the blade angle of the #102 was different to the other two ... higher. I put on my reading specs and looked more closely ... the number read "#103"! For years I had believed that the plane I had was a #102 and instead it was a #103 ...

The moral of the story is that a standard angle plane is capable of excellent performance on end grain. It may not be quite a good .. potentially .. as a low angle block plane, but it is nearly as good. Plus the standard angle is much better on face- and edge grain than a low angle block plane, which is more susceptible to creating tearout in these areas.

None of this invalidates what Rob recommends. The low angle block plane is better because it has a wider range. However it needs to be recognised that a common cutting angle in a block plane is a most useful addition to the tool list.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Todd Hyman]

I may be totally off base, but just based on LN pulling out of the WC stores citing the high demand and subsequent backlogs as the reason makes me think that LV is more about tooling up to meet demand. It must be a tremendous amount of work to get production levels up and still keep their stellar quality. Seems like that would take a lot of the fun out of it but Rob Lee still seems to be a jolly fellow.

Jerome the WC in Chattanooga and Atlanta (Alpharetta) sells LN.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Well Derek, I have both the LN 102 and the LV standard block and they are both solid performers, but the LV standard is superior at smoothing which is what I bought it for. Its a little tough preventing the 102 from diving into some face grain.

[Derek Cohen]

Well Derek, I have both the LN 102 and the LV standard block and they are both solid performers, but the LV standard is superior at smoothing which is what I bought it for. Its a little tough preventing the 102 from diving into some face grain.

Exactly Harvey. This is why I emphasise the relevance of a common angle (as found in the standard block plane). It can do things that the low angle block plane is ill suited for. I can appreciate why some eschew block planes altogether, relying instead on a bench plane. For myself I would not want to be without a block plane or two. They offer maximum control, do good work and are pleasurable to use.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Harvey Pascoe]

Exactly Harvey. This is why I emphasise the relevance of a common angle (as found in the standard block plane). It can do things that the low angle block plane is ill suited for. I can appreciate why some eschew block planes altogether, relying instead on a bench plane. For myself I would not want to be without a block plane or two. They offer maximum control, do good work and are pleasurable to use.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I had a couple of Stanleys that are so poorly made as to be useless, so I had no idea what a good block plane could do, none. So when I got the 102 I was amazed but quickly ran into its limitations - low angle and lack of adjustable mouth is a major drawback. The LV standard block solved that. I"m even more amazed that I have both these tools in near constant use. The LV is twice the size of the 102 and has the heft for some heavier work, and for that reason I find they compliment each other.

The other great advantage of the standard block, at least for me, is that when you don't know the grain direction of a piece of stock, you're going to do a lot less damage if you go the wrong way. Since I often do mosaics of shop sawn veneers, the LV has proved excellent at leveling and smoothing with minimal tear out. I would suggest to anyone buying a low angle block to also buy a 38 degree blade as well.