Grizzly's floor cutter

[dirk martin]

Grizzly sells a router bit set for flooring.
I know people say that you can't just do normal tongue and groove with flooring...it's a special cut, to accomodate the nail.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Floo...3-4-Bore/C2307 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Floo...3-4-Bore/C2307)

Does anyone know if that set of cutters performs this "special cut" ?

[Brad Shipton]

Either they have the wrong picture up or that set does not make a nail notch. There are flooring sets on the market without the nail notch. Take a look at the Amana or LRH Enterprises websites and you will find a set with the nail notch. The bottom groover should have a little protrusion that makes the notch. I know of one fellow that made 1,000's of sq ft with the Grizzly set and he was pleased as punch. I think the amana set is about the same price if I recall correctly, so that might be a better option.

Brad

[Van Huskey]

Just to add to what Brad said, I assume but just wanted to make sure you noticed those are shaper cutters not router bits.

[Bobby Knourek]

you can send the router bits to Woodworkers Tool Works.
They can retip or rework your tongue cutter to have a nail groove.

[Scott T Smith]

Grizzly sells a router bit set for flooring.
I know people say that you can't just do normal tongue and groove with flooring...it's a special cut, to accomodate the nail.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Floo...3-4-Bore/C2307 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Floo...3-4-Bore/C2307)

Does anyone know if that set of cutters performs this "special cut" ?


Dirk, I have that set and it does not cut the relief for the nail.

[cecil dean]

I would call their Customer Service Dept. and ask them. I have had good luck with the equipment and support from Grizzly.
Cecil

[Suzanne Launer]

Can you educate me/us on the difference?

[Bryan Wellman]

If you're looking for actual router bits, not shaper heads....you'll want ones like the bottom two sets on this page. They have the nailing slot that everyone has mentioned....

http://www.amanatool.com/bits-fv/45663.html

[Suzanne Launer]

But again, can someone educate me on why these 1/2" router bits wouldn't work?

[Scott T Smith]

But again, can someone educate me on why these 1/2" router bits wouldn't work?

Suzanne, the set of flooring cutters that Dirk posted the link to are cutter heads, made to be used in a shaper. They are a larger diameter than a router bit and spin slower, and in general last much longer.

Router bits will have a much smaller diameter and need to be spun much faster.

Shapers are a much heavier machine than a router, typically are available in either 3 or 5 hp versions and are designed for production type work. Routers are a more universal and versitale tool, but not designed for industrial duty use.

Tongue and groove flooring cutters are available in several different styles. The industry standard calls for a relief cut in the top of the tongue where it meets the board, so that the flooring nails will not protrude high enough to prevent the boards from mating up smoothly. If you use a set of cutters w/o the relief, then you have to set your nails deeper in order to make sure that the boards mate up. This in turn can cause problems if the wood splits from the extra force or distorts.

The other item common on commercial flooring cutters is that there will be a slight gap between the boards below the tongue. This allows some room for dirt, dust, etc to accumulate when the floor is being laid w/o causing a gap to occur on the top side of the board.

[Peter Quinn]

But again, can someone educate me on why these 1/2" router bits wouldn't work?

I'm confused as to the nature of your confusion? To recap, Dick asked about "router bits" in his OP, but included a link for shaper cutters. Shaper cutters for a 3/4" spindle will not work on a router in any case, so that is confusing. I think those shaper cutters linked will work for flooring because while they do not have a "nail slot" on the top of the tongue side, there appears to be clearance on the groove side should the nails (more of a cleat really) or staples (depending on which the installer uses) not sink flush. If the nail doesn't sit completely flush installing the next board can be a real problem and involve a lot of banging if no accommodation is made in the flooring's geometry. Lots of nails will not sit completely flush. This is the reason a standard tongue and groove set will NOT work. A regular tongue and groove set is meant to produce a glue joint such as for door frames. But flooring will be nailed, board by board, to an often less than perfect substrate on not quite flat framing of inconsistent density. Flooring cutters allow for nails sticking up, they have a back bevel on at least one side of the joint that forces the face of the boards to meet flush where they will be seen, and they generally have a relief angle milled below the tongue on both sides so the bottom of the boards will not inhibit the face from meeting flush due to out of flat conditions in the substrate. So any set of cutters that meets these conditions will work.

The Amana sets that Bryan links look very much like smaller versions of flooring cutters used on the molders typically used to produce strip flooring. While I would not enjoy making an entire floor with a router there is no reason you couldn't with these bits.

[Suzanne Launer]

I think we have two conversations going on here, to my question of why these Grizzly bits will, or will not work in a router.
For now, let's ignore whether or not they will produce a tongue or groove of the correct style.

The only thing I'm seeing as an answer to my question as to why these wouldn't work in a router, is because a router will spin them too fast.
Is that it?

Beware...I am a newbie.

[Peter Quinn]

I think we have two conversations going on here, to my question of why these Grizzly bits will, or will not work in a router.
For now, let's ignore whether or not they will produce a tongue or groove of the correct style.

The only thing I'm seeing as an answer to my question as to why these wouldn't work in a router, is because a router will spin them too fast.
Is that it?

Beware...I am a newbie.

If you are referring to a hand held router with a 1/2" collet, the issue is it will not spin these Grizzly cutters at all. They are designed to work on a shaper. They have a 3/4" hole in the center meant to fit on a shaper spindle. THey are too heavy to spin with a hand held or table mounted router, and there is no way to connect them to one anyway. And yes, if they were fit on a router they would spin too fast for a safe tip speed. I suppose if you had a CNC router with the appropriate spindle in a collet and variable speed they could be of use, though having that would almost certainly preclude you from being a newbie!

[david brum]

I think we have two conversations going on here, to my question of why these Grizzly bits will, or will not work in a router.
For now, let's ignore whether or not they will produce a tongue or groove of the correct style.

The only thing I'm seeing as an answer to my question as to why these wouldn't work in a router, is because a router will spin them too fast.
Is that it?

Beware...I am a newbie.

Suzanne, a shaper cutter is different from a router bit, although they look similar in the catalog. A router bit has the shaft already on the cutter and can be interchanged by loosening the collet on the router. Router bits are relatively less expensive, although quite a bit smaller than shaper cutters. They are designed to operate at a higher speed, with a relatively portable, relatively more fragile tool (the router).

Shaper cutters are actually much bigger and just have a hole in the middle. Most are way too big to work with a router, even if they would fit. They slip onto the larger diameter shaft of a shaper and are held in place by washers and a big nut or bolt. Shapers are heavier duty machines which are designed to operate all day. The cutters are generally more expensive, but their mass and larger diameter produce cleaner cuts.

If you browse the Grizzly catalog, you might wonder why shaper cutters are more expensive. If you compare them in real life, the difference is pretty clear.