Sourcing a blade for frame saw -- for resawing

[jamie shard]

Right now I use a 4.5TPI Carpenter's rip saw for resawing 3/4" pine boards into thin stock. It's a lot of work, but not too bad for pine... but I am doing enough of it that I would like to build a frame saw. Being able to use both arms and more body leverage would make this task much more enjoyable.

My thoughts are a long (24+" and maybe up to 36") wide (3-4") blade with about 3TPI would be ideal for fast cuts that track well. Does that make sense or any different recommendations?

Now the real question is where to get the blade? I think all I need is some decent steel with very coarse teeth. I don't think I could devote the time to filing a whole new set of teeth, but I have no problem sharpening a beat-up old blade.

I was thinking of calling Bad Axe and seeing if there was something that fit the bill. Any other folks I should consider contacting?

-jamie

[David Weaver]

Just look for an old rip saw on ebay and set one up at 4 1/2 tpi or so to start, since you can actually get a rip saw with that profile, 28 inches long (i.e., the teeth will be there already and it won't cost a lot), and score the plate and snap it to be the width you want.

I don't know if you'll find out that you want a less or more coarse saw, but if you do harder woods, probably not more coarse than 4 1/2 tpi, and maybe finer. The veneer saw george was using in the CW video didn't look to have very coarse teeth.

If you really are doing a lot of it, I think a bandsaw might be a better investment. It looks like the large frame saws are much easier to run as a two man operation than one.

[Brian Loucks]

Highland Woodworking has replacement blades for frame saws

[Jim Paulson]

Jamie,

It isn't that hard to make a blade from some 1095 spring steel. I purchased mine from McMaster-Carr.

What it takes is elbow grease and some new files. I've made two frame saws so far, one that sported a 4 tpi and the other at 2 tpi. They both work well and it was fun making them. The 4 tpi is the more versatile one. Due to the size of the teeth on the 2 tpi, I used up a bunch of hacksaw saw blades on the spring steel. You can easily cut 4 tpi with a file.

Best wishes, Jim
182011

[Jim Belair]

Highland Woodworking has replacement blades for frame saws

I just received the 5 tpi X 27 inch one I ordered from Highland ($8.95) and plan to make a rip specific frame saw (blade in center of frame with a stretcher on either side). Not sure when I'll get around to it so can't promise photos anytime soon. :rolleyes:

Jim B

[john brenton]

They aren't hard to make and I've made a few. You could even just dowel the arms in if you didn't feel like mortise and tenon...I'm not saying you should, but you can. I've also used tin snips to cut the webs out of old saws...people will say you shouldn't do that, but I haven't seen any problem from it.

I finally gave up on using them. I'm not speaking for anyone else...I know there are people here that swear by them and get great results, but I really didn't find it to be that much more versatile than a traditional hand saw when it comes to resawing wide lumber. What I mean is that where a straight and sharp western style saw worked fine, a frame saw with sharp teeth worked fine. Where a western style was just too difficult to manage without skewing the cut, the frame saw did the same.

Again...for ME. I can't say that I invested too much time in mastering it either. I'm just trying to express the opinion that you may not find the frame saw to be the panacea for all your resawing woes.

That being said, there is still an advantage to bow saws and frame saws...specifically in having thinner blades, salvaging old ones, or making your own like Jim Paulson. You'd have a heck of a time finding a decent hand saw any less that 4 tpi online. I would go back to trying them if I could make or source a 2-3 tpi web like Jim has. A higher TPI results in a whole bunch of uncomfortable movement.

[Johnny Kleso]

You can buy a band saw blade and punch or drill holes were you need them..

Many saw makers made what was called butcher saw punches

182013

[Jim Paulson]

Johnny,

That butcher saw punch is way cool!! I have drilled holes in saw blades using carbide bits.
Thanks for posting,

Jim

[jamie shard]

... I really didn't find it to be that much more versatile than a traditional hand saw when it comes to resawing wide lumber. What I mean is that where a straight and sharp western style saw worked fine, a frame saw with sharp teeth worked fine. Where a western style was just too difficult to manage without skewing the cut, the frame saw did the same.

John, thanks for this comment. I appreciate reality checks in this thread too! :) I really am trying to figure out the right ratio of time/money investment
and resulting performance.

[jamie shard]

Johnny,
That butcher saw punch is way cool!! I have drilled holes in saw blades using carbide bits.
Thanks for posting,
Jim

+1 that would sure cut the time required... and ironically I lucked into a good deal on a drill press yesterday so drilling out most of the waste would also be an option for me now.

For what it's worth, I also found this thread while searching yesterday. Seems like Adam C. is researching this, too. Someone posted in the comments that the Colonial Williamsberg blog might also be posting on their frame saw.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/blog3/2011/02/04/QuestionAboutResawing.aspx

Seems like lots of good information on its way! :D

[Adam Cherubini]

Hi Jamie,

Far be it from me to talk you out of a hand tool. But maybe a word of caution (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/blog3/2009/09/07/ExploringHandTools.aspx)is in order. Ripping 4" stock is one thing. Ripping 8 or 12" stock is quite another. Take a look at the linked entries on my blog (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/blog3/2011/02/04/QuestionAboutResawing.aspx) and be sure to read the comments. The guys who are actually doing this work are all arriving at similar conclusions. Resawing by hand is a tremendously difficult task physically and skill-wise.

Historically, long kerfs required pitsaws. In France, where large quantities of veneers were required (due to deforestation), they made machines to saw veneer. That should tell us something.

Adam

[john brenton]

A regular old bit on low speed with some oil works too. Funny how drilling on high speed gets you absolutely nowhere...but going slow get through in no time. It makes no sense to me but it works.


Johnny,

That butcher saw punch is way cool!! I have drilled holes in saw blades using carbide bits.
Thanks for posting,

Jim

[john brenton]

Resawing wide lumber is usually the limit of what a neanderthal wants to do, and it's come up quite a bit here. I had a real hard time a few months ago while I was trying to resaw some 10" wide cedar. By the time I made progress the cut would skew, ruining the piece. There are people that manage to resaw well without power tools, and I don't doubt that or say it can't be done.

But, feeling a little insecure about my inability to resaw that lumber, I contacted a well known classical guitar maker who is known for building from start (the live tree) to finish (period Spanish classicals) with mostly hand tools. He told me that he wouldn't even bother and to take it to a cabinet shop if nobody had a bandsaw I could trade a six pack for use. That made me feel more comfortable with accepting the fact that rejecting the technology isn't always a matter of integrity...sometimes it's just being hardheaded.


John, thanks for this comment. I appreciate reality checks in this thread too! :) I really am trying to figure out the right ratio of time/money investment
and resulting performance.

[jamie shard]

So far I've only done up to 6-7" cuts in pine, mahogany, and white oak -- but most typically 4-6" in quartersawn pine.

As I'm thinking about this more... I would say that I don't mind the work, the sweat, the time. What really bugs me is when the cut drifts. A slight drift and you lose double that distance in thickness when all is planed flat. I would really like to consistently get 2 pieces of 3/8" thickness from a 3/4" board, but I'm lucky if I get a solid 1/4" over a long length. Many times I've wondered why I didn't just scrub plane it down and not even try to get two boards!

-j

[Adam Cherubini]

No way will you get 3/8" from 3/4" stock. You won't get 3/8" from 4/4 rough stock. If you want 3/8", you need to start with 5/4 at least. I'm happy to get a clean 1/4" from 3/4".

[Chuck Nickerson]

A regular old bit on low speed with some oil works too.

Just an FYI: cutting fluid should be used; it's much better than just oil. DAMHIKT

[Jim Paulson]

I love this conversation, but seriously with some practice you can get a couple 5/16" thick boards from ~3/4" stock. Even then you still might have a spot or two that shows some signs of being sawn, but that can be the underside of the drawer bottom. I still find it gratifying to use a homemade tool with all the physical work it includes.

As Adam points out this is easier when resawing narrower stock, say 6 inches wide or less. For me, re-sawing by hand is something a person has to want to do, otherwise the practically of using a machine wins out. Once you have a couple frame saws you find ways to use them in your shop.

Jim

[Adam Cherubini]

Hi Jim, I agree. And you are right on to point out that the thickness you get depends partially on the width of the cut. I might be able to do better than 5/16" in 4 or 6" wide material. In a 1x12 from Home Depot, 5/16" is a good well done!

Only quibble- with normal ripping or small cross cuts, 4/4 stuff, I think I can beat a machine. Some saw cuts are super efficient. Resawing isn't one.

Adam

[jamie shard]

This has been a great thread and really helped me dial in my expectations. Seems like a frame saw might help make sawing a little easier by allowing my other arm to help out... but I shouldn't expect a big performance improvement over my Grandpa's big ol rip saw!

Thanks everyone!

[john brenton]

Chuck,

Great...like I need another bottle of fluid in the garage!


Just an FYI: cutting fluid should be used; it's much better than just oil. DAMHIKT

[gary rosema]

Right now I use a 4.5TPI Carpenter's rip saw for resawing 3/4" pine boards into thin stock. It's a lot of work, but not too bad for pine... but I am doing enough of it that I would like to build a frame saw. Being able to use both arms and more body leverage would make this task much more enjoyable.

My thoughts are a long (24+" and maybe up to 36") wide (3-4") blade with about 3TPI would be ideal for fast cuts that track well. Does that make sense or any different recommendations?

Now the real question is where to get the blade? I think all I need is some decent steel with very coarse teeth. I don't think I could devote the time to filing a whole new set of teeth, but I have no problem sharpening a beat-up old blade.

I was thinking of calling Bad Axe and seeing if there was something that fit the bill. Any other folks I should consider contacting?

-jamiea bandsaw is the way to go